early decision on coaches and scouts

waltwa · 06-04-2006, 07:13 PM

admittedly my decision is early but i have the strong feeling that this game will turn out like the previous editions and that coaches and scouts will generally be turned off. i just did it and all the ratings show up.

it seems if there are no coaches all teams are on an equal footing and i can live with that. the same appears to be true of scouts altho that may affect the global aspect of the game.

anyway my early prediction is that both will be turned off more than used.

redmarkYankees · 06-04-2006, 07:20 PM

I think there's too much variation in the quality of scouts and subsequently their assessment of players. I think this is one of those areas where every scout in a major baseballing country like the US should be at least 10+ in every category AND that the difference in assessing players should be less severe than it is between a 10-rated scout and a 20-rated scout. Otherwise, I think you're right.

waltwa · 06-04-2006, 07:27 PM

i think they complicate the game unnecessarily but i am not sure that if the scouts are turned off that we are getting accurate ratings. i am a little confused by what the guide says and what might actually be in the game. i will have to get more info on this.

bp_ · 06-04-2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwa

admittedly my decision is early but i have the strong feeling that this game will turn out like the previous editions and that coaches and scouts will generally be turned off. i just did it and all the ratings show up.

it seems if there are no coaches all teams are on an equal footing and i can live with that. the same appears to be true of scouts altho that may affect the global aspect of the game.

anyway my early prediction is that both will be turned off more than used.

You may be right. It will depend on just how much influence a coach has on a players development. If a guy with poor stuff potential becomes a great strikeout pitcher because of a coach influence throughout the minor league career I'll be disappointed.

Wombat42 · 06-04-2006, 07:40 PM

Just another issue you can debate about. I like the scouts. I don't mind the lack of equal footing, spend the money to get the great scouts. Not every scout is equal in baseball, not every scout is equal in the game. It's an extra piece of realism.

I do think scouts should resist informing me of 51 year old prospects, though. I sent one to scout Japan, he gave me a hidden-talent 51 year old. Perhaps he is trying to sabotage my team...a spy of sorts...but I digress.

So it's not equal. What in sports is? The Dodgers have to deal with Grady Little, how is that fair? The Royals are the Royals, how is that fair? I like the realism.

waltwa · 06-04-2006, 07:50 PM

the thing is tho that i went thru the manual and read the section on scouts carefully. the problem is that the explanation assumes that we will be using scouts and doesn't really explain the effects of not using scouts. i would like someone to explain how not using scouts negatively affects the game.

kq76 · 06-05-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwa

i am not sure that if the scouts are turned off that we are getting accurate ratings.

I haven't checked this myself, but maybe you can check this yourself and report back. I'm pretty sure the sql dump shows the real ratings so if the two match with a bunch of players then ratings with scouts off should be real too.

treedom · 06-05-2006, 07:27 AM

The editor tab shows the real ratings, does it not? If so, then having scouts off shows the real ratings, since I've found them to match those on the editor tab.

Anyway, I'm already playing with coaches and scouts off. I find them just as tedious as in previous versions.

redmarkYankees · 06-05-2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treedom

The editor tab shows the real ratings, does it not? If so, then having scouts off shows the real ratings, since I've found them to match those on the editor tab.

Correct. You don't get an "overall" current or potential rating though. I can actually live without it, if I go the non-scouts route.

kq76 · 06-05-2006, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by treedom

The editor tab shows the real ratings, does it not? If so, then having scouts off shows the real ratings, since I've found them to match those on the editor tab.

Yeah, I forgot about that. It does too.

treedom · 06-05-2006, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

I can actually live without it, if I go the non-scouts route.

I kinda like the "overall" rating. It's too bad we canna see it with scouts off.

Erithtotl · 06-05-2006, 09:21 AM

I think the new scouting is a great idea, but the interface to manage them needs some serious work. Scouting is too 'decentralized'. I should be able to assign ascout to any task from any screen.

I do question the value of having scouts for the individual minor league teams. I also think the logic for signing coaches needs to be fixed. Right now there's no way to know if a coach will be interested in your team without actually making an offer. I've offered my AA manager position to a dozen bad managers and none of them have expressed interest.

I also agree that coaches should be a subtle influence, and there should be enough decent scouts in the game that no team is too crippled by the varying levels of quality. It should be more in how you utilize your scouts strengths and weaknesses, rather than who can pay the most for the best ones.

waltwa · 06-05-2006, 10:05 AM

the thing that potentially bothers me both with coaches and scouts is this. i went thru the reading process of dealing with the rosters and it is very deep and really tries to approximate mlb. i think it can really take some time in keeping rosters up to date and organized. then we add coaches and scouts to the mix (not really knowing if they are important) and the game may become somewhat cumbersome particularly if you want to actually manage the team on the field and play out the games. coaches don't appear to take much work but it seems that taking care of the scouting system takes real work in the game.

i would very much like to hear from markus on how the coaches and scouts truly impact the game and whether or not we are missing something by not having them in the game. as we found out they were not important in previous editions. i have a feeling that if you want to experience the global league and find hidden gems that are very important but i prefer to really just focus on the majors and minors in the usa.

trapper · 06-05-2006, 11:38 AM

I find it strange how different the scouting assessments can be. I played one game where my head scout would recommend a player and rate him in the 60s, but I did quick scout with my other scouts, they would say he was in the 30s.

battists · 06-05-2006, 11:45 AM

I will try to add more into the manual about playing without scouts.

If you turn off scouting, all of the ratings shown are the "true" ratings.

Erithtotl · 06-05-2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trapper

I find it strange how different the scouting assessments can be. I played one game where my head scout would recommend a player and rate him in the 60s, but I did quick scout with my other scouts, they would say he was in the 30s.

Quick scout is really a 'wild guess'. You'll never get anything accurate. I only use Quick scout if I'm in a time crunch, I have every scout scout the same guy and average out the ratings.

I think the real key to using the scouts is to have multiple scouts scout the same player, and taking into account each of their individual skills and preferences, try and get a picture of what that player is really about. That said, I think the UI could be tweaked a lot to help us. For example, when scouting a hitter, on the scout report screen I should see the ratings for the scouts hitting and fielding ratings. I'd also like to be able to select multiple scouts to scout something on one screen, rather than selecting each one and confirming.

jnshmoo · 06-05-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trapper

I find it strange how different the scouting assessments can be. I played one game where my head scout would recommend a player and rate him in the 60s, but I did quick scout with my other scouts, they would say he was in the 30s.

How is that all that different than real life? Different people are going to evaluate talent differently. Now, the variance probably shouldn't be too huge, but there's things that play into it.

If a scout actually watches a player play in a game, his valuation is likely to be different than a scout who only rates a player based on his statistics.

If one scout watches a player when he happens to be in a slump, he's going to rate the player lower than a scout that watches a player when he's on a hot streak.

If you are concerned with what the REAL numbers or are more interested in the commish mode, I'd say turn off the scouts. But if you want to play in a manager mode with more realism, where you don't realistically have access to a players true talents, only human perceptions of those talents and the use of his statistics to back up those perceptions, leave them on.

waltwa · 06-05-2006, 01:10 PM

i think decisions made about whether or not to use scouts might depend on how you want to play the game. i intend to manage most of the games and also eventually to play in online leagues. it seems that using scouts is a time consuming process. now if it is time consuming i have to determine their overall value to the game. in previous editions the decision it seems was overwhelmingly not to use them. i still have to find out their value to the game. i think the message has been delivered that we can expect something from an official source that will tell us how the game plays without using scouts.

something to bear in mind is the depth that the game has taken on in roster management so when you add 6-7 scouts and different ratings and reports it might be difficult to actually focus on managing individual games.

trapper · 06-05-2006, 01:50 PM

All I'm saying is that it is too different between scouts. I don't see how one scout could rate a guy in the 60s which is near superstar level in the majors, while several other scouts rate him in the 30s, which is well below major league level and considered to be undraftable and not a prospect at all. I could see smaller differences, but I have one guy saying he will be a star player in the majors and others saying he will never even make the majors and is a below average minor league talent. Mabye this happens in real life, but if a real GM saw that he would want some more information. You would want to know what the hell your scouts are basing their info on, and you could get some explaination. But in the game, you don't really have anything more to go on, so I think the scouts should be closer together. I could see a 10-20 point difference mabye, but this seems a bit much. Unless of course it happens very rarely, which would be fine. But I haven't played the game enough to tell.

bp_ · 06-05-2006, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erithtotl

I do question the value of having scouts for the individual minor league teams.

I think the minor league scouts are worthless. I never use them as managing the major league scouts is enough of a chore. In fact, I didn't even realize I had scouts on my AAA, AA, etc rosters until the other day when I was going through giving extensions to my coaches.

06-04-2006, 07:13 PM	#1
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	early decision on coaches and scouts admittedly my decision is early but i have the strong feeling that this game will turn out like the previous editions and that coaches and scouts will generally be turned off. i just did it and all the ratings show up. it seems if there are no coaches all teams are on an equal footing and i can live with that. the same appears to be true of scouts altho that may affect the global aspect of the game. anyway my early prediction is that both will be turned off more than used.

06-04-2006, 07:20 PM	#2
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,283	I think there's too much variation in the quality of scouts and subsequently their assessment of players. I think this is one of those areas where every scout in a major baseballing country like the US should be at least 10+ in every category AND that the difference in assessing players should be less severe than it is between a 10-rated scout and a 20-rated scout. Otherwise, I think you're right. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

06-05-2006, 07:27 AM	#8
treedom Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Transylvania Posts: 2,900	The editor tab shows the real ratings, does it not? If so, then having scouts off shows the real ratings, since I've found them to match those on the editor tab. Anyway, I'm already playing with coaches and scouts off. I find them just as tedious as in previous versions. __________________ A rake and a roustabout. Last edited by treedom; 06-05-2006 at 07:29 AM.

06-04-2006, 07:27 PM	#3
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	i think they complicate the game unnecessarily but i am not sure that if the scouts are turned off that we are getting accurate ratings. i am a little confused by what the guide says and what might actually be in the game. i will have to get more info on this.

06-04-2006, 07:40 PM	#5
Wombat42 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 50	Just another issue you can debate about. I like the scouts. I don't mind the lack of equal footing, spend the money to get the great scouts. Not every scout is equal in baseball, not every scout is equal in the game. It's an extra piece of realism. I do think scouts should resist informing me of 51 year old prospects, though. I sent one to scout Japan, he gave me a hidden-talent 51 year old. Perhaps he is trying to sabotage my team...a spy of sorts...but I digress. So it's not equal. What in sports is? The Dodgers have to deal with Grady Little, how is that fair? The Royals are the Royals, how is that fair? I like the realism.

06-04-2006, 07:50 PM	#6
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	the thing is tho that i went thru the manual and read the section on scouts carefully. the problem is that the explanation assumes that we will be using scouts and doesn't really explain the effects of not using scouts. i would like someone to explain how not using scouts negatively affects the game.

06-05-2006, 09:21 AM	#12
Erithtotl Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 330	I think the new scouting is a great idea, but the interface to manage them needs some serious work. Scouting is too 'decentralized'. I should be able to assign ascout to any task from any screen. I do question the value of having scouts for the individual minor league teams. I also think the logic for signing coaches needs to be fixed. Right now there's no way to know if a coach will be interested in your team without actually making an offer. I've offered my AA manager position to a dozen bad managers and none of them have expressed interest. I also agree that coaches should be a subtle influence, and there should be enough decent scouts in the game that no team is too crippled by the varying levels of quality. It should be more in how you utilize your scouts strengths and weaknesses, rather than who can pay the most for the best ones.

06-05-2006, 10:05 AM	#13
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	the thing that potentially bothers me both with coaches and scouts is this. i went thru the reading process of dealing with the rosters and it is very deep and really tries to approximate mlb. i think it can really take some time in keeping rosters up to date and organized. then we add coaches and scouts to the mix (not really knowing if they are important) and the game may become somewhat cumbersome particularly if you want to actually manage the team on the field and play out the games. coaches don't appear to take much work but it seems that taking care of the scouting system takes real work in the game. i would very much like to hear from markus on how the coaches and scouts truly impact the game and whether or not we are missing something by not having them in the game. as we found out they were not important in previous editions. i have a feeling that if you want to experience the global league and find hidden gems that are very important but i prefer to really just focus on the majors and minors in the usa.

06-05-2006, 11:38 AM	#14
trapper Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 114	I find it strange how different the scouting assessments can be. I played one game where my head scout would recommend a player and rate him in the 60s, but I did quick scout with my other scouts, they would say he was in the 30s.

06-05-2006, 11:45 AM	#15
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	I will try to add more into the manual about playing without scouts. If you turn off scouting, all of the ratings shown are the "true" ratings.

06-05-2006, 01:10 PM	#18
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 906	i think decisions made about whether or not to use scouts might depend on how you want to play the game. i intend to manage most of the games and also eventually to play in online leagues. it seems that using scouts is a time consuming process. now if it is time consuming i have to determine their overall value to the game. in previous editions the decision it seems was overwhelmingly not to use them. i still have to find out their value to the game. i think the message has been delivered that we can expect something from an official source that will tell us how the game plays without using scouts. something to bear in mind is the depth that the game has taken on in roster management so when you add 6-7 scouts and different ratings and reports it might be difficult to actually focus on managing individual games.

06-05-2006, 01:50 PM	#19
trapper Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 114	All I'm saying is that it is too different between scouts. I don't see how one scout could rate a guy in the 60s which is near superstar level in the majors, while several other scouts rate him in the 30s, which is well below major league level and considered to be undraftable and not a prospect at all. I could see smaller differences, but I have one guy saying he will be a star player in the majors and others saying he will never even make the majors and is a below average minor league talent. Mabye this happens in real life, but if a real GM saw that he would want some more information. You would want to know what the hell your scouts are basing their info on, and you could get some explaination. But in the game, you don't really have anything more to go on, so I think the scouts should be closer together. I could see a 10-20 point difference mabye, but this seems a bit much. Unless of course it happens very rarely, which would be fine. But I haven't played the game enough to tell.