Demand for name change - has anyone ever seen this?

Nuk · 10-31-2004, 10:38 AM

I just received the following e-mail in my inbox this morning...to clarify - I run a fictional league - and all names were generated randomly - in fact this particular name was generated back when the league started, with OOTP3.

Quote:

Commish,

I recently found that your site is using my name XXXX YYYYYYYY on your player list. I am requesting that you immediately remove all references to my name from your web site and game files. Your expeditious actions will expiate this act of defamation.

Regards,

XXXX YYYYYYYYYY

I've obviously not used the name here (Because that's not really important) - but does anyone know of any legal crap I might be in if I refuse this request - because - in my opinion - it's silly.

Gastric ReFlux · 10-31-2004, 10:46 AM

Gee, wow, hmmm. I suppose if the guy complaining has some sort of legitimate value attached to his name, then there could be a problem, even if the complainer is basically acting like a total jerk.

endgame · 10-31-2004, 10:47 AM

I can't imagine anyone being able to pursue litigation over the use of a name in a fictional setting. Unless one possesses a reasonable degree of celebrity and is in a position to protect potential profits from such use, there's simply nothing to be gained.

I'm imagining my name being used for a player who's batting .090 for the season, has a player photo resembling Frankenstein, and a history edited to show me traded every season because my laundry isn't done often enough. If that offends me, what could I possibly do? Big deal.

I don't know. You're right. It seems silly unless it's coming from Madonna or such. I see no reason you'd be compelled to comply with such a request. And after all, it's the internet -- the big gray sky.

TasmanianDevil · 10-31-2004, 10:55 AM

You could take this one of two directions.

Change the players name by one letter and remove the issue (of course this will possible cause historical issues within your game).

Or not worry about it and ignore the email.

Just curious though, is the name of someone well known? Like a movie star or such?

kq76 · 10-31-2004, 11:11 AM

What a joke. He might be using fancy words, but I can't imagine that you're defaming him in any way so there's nothing for you to expiate. He's probably just an ass looking to cause someone grief.

EDIT: I said I'd call his bluff, but I take that back. I'd probably just email him back and explain to him that it's a league with completely fictional players and as such has nothing to do with him.

Nuk · 10-31-2004, 11:20 AM

The name is NOT famous. The other thing of course is that the player page has a birthday associated with it. If that didn't match - it couldn't be him, could it (there is no place of birth in the file - since it was generated with OOTP3).

The league home page also notes that this is a "fictional league" - and I added the standard "any resemblance to people living or dead" in the disclaimer.

http://www.pretendleagues.com

andrewkay · 10-31-2004, 11:20 AM

I would suggest you send him back a polite e mail asking him to lay out his grounds for accusing you of defaming his name.

Defamation is defined as "an injury to the reputation or character of someone resulting from the false statements or actions of another. Defamation is a false attack on your good name". I doubt if you have injured his reputation or character (unless this guy in your league is a really bad player and you said he was a useless piece of crap!).

I am pretty sure that using a name in this context has no grounds for any kind of action, also to take any action he would have to know your real name, address, etc. Sounds to me like it is just one of those people that has nothing better to do in their life than get their fun from sending this kind of e mail.

Gastric ReFlux · 10-31-2004, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuk

The name is NOT famous. The other thing of course is that the player page has a birthday associated with it. If that didn't match - it couldn't be him, could it (there is no place of birth in the file - since it was generated with OOTP3).

The league home page also notes that this is a "fictional league" - and I added the standard "any resemblance to people living or dead" in the disclaimer.

http://www.pretendleagues.com

It sounds like he doesn't have anything really to complain about. Of course, it could be that you are dealing with a person who has paranoid tendencies.

DaveHorn · 10-31-2004, 11:28 AM

I would certainly not worry about it, it would be extremely easy to prove that you are not libeling anyone. If you are woried about a nuisance suit, just put a disclaimer on the bottom of your website that says something like. "All names and references are fictional. Any use of any person's real name is coincidence...blah...blah...blah." You'll find the standard disclaimer in just about any fictional book.

Dr. Walter Doodah · 10-31-2004, 11:39 AM

Wow, this has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Does this guy have nothing better to do with his time? Like, is he actually worry that acquaintances will stumble upon his player report and think it is about him?

Nuk · 10-31-2004, 11:57 AM

Thanks everyone for their responses. I have sent a clearly worded, polite reply, explaining that all names were created randomly - pointing him to the disclaimer on the front page - and asking for an explanation on how this is defaming him.

I'll keep you posted.

Long_Long_Name · 10-31-2004, 12:06 PM

One person contacted me about his name being in my league, a few months ago. Turns out he lives in my neighborhood, and he joined the league, despite the player bearing his name being a really bad player.

Anyway, this got me thinking...

http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Jul/20040711News028.asp

On the other hand, I konw it's stupid, but does it really hurt you to change the player's name, if it makes that guy happy?

Twelvefield · 10-31-2004, 12:12 PM

On the other hand, speaking as Devil's Advocate, you could just go and change the name, what's the big deal? You probably would not like it if someone took your name and attached it to a character you did not appreciate. There was that lawsuit between the cartoonist guy Todd MacFarlane (sp?) that drew "Spawn" and that hockey player whose name he lifted (does Mr. MacFarlane ever win a lawsuit? Not that it matters, he's still richer than Croeseus... ). The issue, of course, was that Mr. MacFarlane made a lot of money off of the hockey player's name. That made it easy for the lawyers to sue for damages.

Just by way of note, most users on the forum use handles instead of their real names. Speaking for myself, I don't want people here to know my identity.

BaseballMan · 10-31-2004, 12:20 PM

Well if someone has the same name as a famous person are they suppose to change it?

Jestor · 10-31-2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

On the other hand, speaking as Devil's Advocate, you could just go and change the name, what's the big deal? You probably would not like it if someone took your name and attached it to a character you did not appreciate. There was that lawsuit between the cartoonist guy Todd MacFarlane (sp?) that drew "Spawn" and that hockey player whose name he lifted (does Mr. MacFarlane ever win a lawsuit? Not that it matters, he's still richer than Croeseus... ). The issue, of course, was that Mr. MacFarlane made a lot of money off of the hockey player's name. That made it easy for the lawyers to sue for damages..

I think this is a key point here in that McFarlane was making money off of said hockey player.

There's no profit being made here by Nuk and it's clearly not related to this guy in any way, shape, or form other than the same name.

So do I think the name should be changed?

No, I don't. It's too much hassle with the histories to do it for one, and for two (this I feel is the most important bit), if he can engage in a dialogue with the guy, maybe the dude can manage to be a little less paranoid.

sporr · 10-31-2004, 01:53 PM

As long as you aren't profiting from use of his name, he has no recourse.

Slackker · 10-31-2004, 02:07 PM

People are lawsuit happy.

I wouldn't even consider changing the name. If the guy wants to incur attorney fees for a meritless litigation claim then I'd be happy to give him a reason to flush his money down the toilet. Hell, I'd even give the guy in my league a derogatory nickname to drive home the point. Then again, I'm kind of a prick when it comes to that kinda thing.

Here's another question though - Is the name something common? For instance.. Mike Smith? John Brown? Bob Davis? I can understand not wanting to post the name here, I'm just curious about exactly how stupid this guy is.

redmarkYankees · 10-31-2004, 02:08 PM

A name isn't a unique identifier; you can't be defaming him unless there are further indications of his identity. (Name itself isn't even necessary, there have been many cases brought - though not necessarily won - on fictional works with 'identity' suggested by factors other than name).

Are the first name/surname common names? HFTC has 2 Dave Horn's as GMs... imagine if we had a player called Dave Horn too.

LivnLegend · 10-31-2004, 02:10 PM

I'd ignore it.

Dan Theman · 10-31-2004, 02:16 PM

As long as it's not famous, I'd also ignore it. A name is not copyrighted material unless there's an enterprise attached - otherwise anyone named Smith would be in SERIOUS trouble. It's more than likely someone you know who is giving you a hard time.

10-31-2004, 11:11 AM	#5
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,044	What a joke. He might be using fancy words, but I can't imagine that you're defaming him in any way so there's nothing for you to expiate. He's probably just an ass looking to cause someone grief. EDIT: I said I'd call his bluff, but I take that back. I'd probably just email him back and explain to him that it's a league with completely fictional players and as such has nothing to do with him. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080) Last edited by kq76; 10-31-2004 at 12:09 PM.

10-31-2004, 11:28 AM	#9
DaveHorn All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 1,146	I would certainly not worry about it, it would be extremely easy to prove that you are not libeling anyone. If you are woried about a nuisance suit, just put a disclaimer on the bottom of your website that says something like. "All names and references are fictional. Any use of any person's real name is coincidence...blah...blah...blah." You'll find the standard disclaimer in just about any fictional book. __________________ Dave HFTC Commish

10-31-2004, 12:06 PM	#12
Long_Long_Name Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montréal Posts: 7,065	One person contacted me about his name being in my league, a few months ago. Turns out he lives in my neighborhood, and he joined the league, despite the player bearing his name being a really bad player. Anyway, this got me thinking... http://www.showmenews.com/2004/Jul/20040711News028.asp On the other hand, I konw it's stupid, but does it really hurt you to change the player's name, if it makes that guy happy? __________________ Beta Baseball. Join it!

10-31-2004, 02:08 PM	#18
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,283	A name isn't a unique identifier; you can't be defaming him unless there are further indications of his identity. (Name itself isn't even necessary, there have been many cases brought - though not necessarily won - on fictional works with 'identity' suggested by factors other than name). Are the first name/surname common names? HFTC has 2 Dave Horn's as GMs... imagine if we had a player called Dave Horn too. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

10-31-2004, 02:10 PM	#19
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	I'd ignore it. __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

10-31-2004, 10:46 AM	#2
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,350	Gee, wow, hmmm. I suppose if the guy complaining has some sort of legitimate value attached to his name, then there could be a problem, even if the complainer is basically acting like a total jerk.

10-31-2004, 10:47 AM	#3
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,842	I can't imagine anyone being able to pursue litigation over the use of a name in a fictional setting. Unless one possesses a reasonable degree of celebrity and is in a position to protect potential profits from such use, there's simply nothing to be gained. I'm imagining my name being used for a player who's batting .090 for the season, has a player photo resembling Frankenstein, and a history edited to show me traded every season because my laundry isn't done often enough. If that offends me, what could I possibly do? Big deal. I don't know. You're right. It seems silly unless it's coming from Madonna or such. I see no reason you'd be compelled to comply with such a request. And after all, it's the internet -- the big gray sky.

10-31-2004, 10:55 AM	#4
TasmanianDevil Minors (Single A) Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: California Posts: 59	You could take this one of two directions. Change the players name by one letter and remove the issue (of course this will possible cause historical issues within your game). Or not worry about it and ignore the email. Just curious though, is the name of someone well known? Like a movie star or such?

10-31-2004, 11:20 AM	#6
Nuk Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 215	The name is NOT famous. The other thing of course is that the player page has a birthday associated with it. If that didn't match - it couldn't be him, could it (there is no place of birth in the file - since it was generated with OOTP3). The league home page also notes that this is a "fictional league" - and I added the standard "any resemblance to people living or dead" in the disclaimer. http://www.pretendleagues.com

10-31-2004, 11:20 AM	#7
andrewkay Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 70	I would suggest you send him back a polite e mail asking him to lay out his grounds for accusing you of defaming his name. Defamation is defined as "an injury to the reputation or character of someone resulting from the false statements or actions of another. Defamation is a false attack on your good name". I doubt if you have injured his reputation or character (unless this guy in your league is a really bad player and you said he was a useless piece of crap!). I am pretty sure that using a name in this context has no grounds for any kind of action, also to take any action he would have to know your real name, address, etc. Sounds to me like it is just one of those people that has nothing better to do in their life than get their fun from sending this kind of e mail.

10-31-2004, 11:39 AM	#10
Dr. Walter Doodah Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: not Libya Posts: 199	Wow, this has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Does this guy have nothing better to do with his time? Like, is he actually worry that acquaintances will stumble upon his player report and think it is about him?

10-31-2004, 11:57 AM	#11
Nuk Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 215	Thanks everyone for their responses. I have sent a clearly worded, polite reply, explaining that all names were created randomly - pointing him to the disclaimer on the front page - and asking for an explanation on how this is defaming him. I'll keep you posted.

10-31-2004, 12:12 PM	#13
Twelvefield All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,188	On the other hand, speaking as Devil's Advocate, you could just go and change the name, what's the big deal? You probably would not like it if someone took your name and attached it to a character you did not appreciate. There was that lawsuit between the cartoonist guy Todd MacFarlane (sp?) that drew "Spawn" and that hockey player whose name he lifted (does Mr. MacFarlane ever win a lawsuit? Not that it matters, he's still richer than Croeseus... ). The issue, of course, was that Mr. MacFarlane made a lot of money off of the hockey player's name. That made it easy for the lawyers to sue for damages. Just by way of note, most users on the forum use handles instead of their real names. Speaking for myself, I don't want people here to know my identity.

10-31-2004, 12:20 PM	#14
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,647	Well if someone has the same name as a famous person are they suppose to change it?

10-31-2004, 01:53 PM	#16
sporr Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Muscatine, IA Posts: 8,277	As long as you aren't profiting from use of his name, he has no recourse.

10-31-2004, 02:07 PM	#17
Slackker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Connecticut Posts: 777	People are lawsuit happy. I wouldn't even consider changing the name. If the guy wants to incur attorney fees for a meritless litigation claim then I'd be happy to give him a reason to flush his money down the toilet. Hell, I'd even give the guy in my league a derogatory nickname to drive home the point. Then again, I'm kind of a prick when it comes to that kinda thing. Here's another question though - Is the name something common? For instance.. Mike Smith? John Brown? Bob Davis? I can understand not wanting to post the name here, I'm just curious about exactly how stupid this guy is.