Best talent for a pitcher?

[twins15]

What have you found the best talent for a pitcher to be? Pure stuff, Control, movement, or velocity?

[RidingTimeless]

I have the same question. Last year I thought stuff was the key ingredient, but this year I'm thinking control.

[CMH]

Poise.

Seriously, I look at Stuff more than anything.

[Dud_Selig]

Wouldn't a balance between "stuff" & "control" be best? If a pitcher has great stuff but lousy control, & vice versa, how valuable is he?

[Kane182]

Control....The guys who converted over from my OOTP5 league who have low control sucked in my league then and they still suck in my league now.

[skkrrt]

Its a matter of balance now, no more picking your players by 1 #

Velocity and Stuff effect the K's the guys gonna get, obviously you need strikeouts.

But Movement is going to effect HR's.....and we al know what happens to guys who give up the longball....

But Control is for walks (and K's as well).....and what happens when you walk 4 or 5 guys a game?

It brings up interesting situations too: A guy is just a blazer, 98-100 on the radar gun, good control and good stuff....but his pitch's are "flat" and get hammered....hmmmm do you take the risk on him? What about the pitcher who doesn't get a whole lot of K's but gives up no homers and walks few, does he get a chance?

See, no more clicking ERA rating too see who the best SP is

[beorn]

Very honestly, I don't understand this distinction between stuff and movement. In my mind, if the guy's curve and fastball have good movement, then he has good stuff???

I understand, though, that in OOTP movement counteracts power, and stuff generates strikeouts.

[Ragin Cajun]

Stuff is your flat out ability to actually "pitch", not just throw the ball. For example, as an Astro fan, it is obvious that Pettitte, Clemons and Oswalt have better stuff than Tim Redding although Tim is a decent pitcher.

Movement is the darting and dipping the ball does on a regular pitch. If you go to the little league park or the low minors and see a guy throw a fast ball, it will be very straight and "flat" or run on the same plane. In the majors a fastball may look like a good curve elsewhere as it may rise and then dip, or dip and then curve a bit. Basically the movement makes it that much harder to hit than a ball thrown perfectly straight.

[treedom]

I did a little experementation and found that for the most part stuff=Ks, control=BBs and movement=HR. My 'experiment' is not the most intensive it could've been...only 3 pitchers over the course of one season (i know...sample size, sample size), but the stats differences seem pretty cut n' dry.

Robert "Stuffy" DeFelice
stuff - 100, control - 50, movement - 50

14-10 4.62 212.1 IP / 62 BB / 228 Ks / 33 HR


Amos "Control Freak" Manders
stuff - 50, control - 100, movement - 50

13-8 3.65 224.1 IP / 13 BB / 117 Ks / 30 HR


Alfred "Move Me" Bruno
stuff - 50, control - 50, movement - 100

10-13 3.94 214.2 IP / 95 BB / 106 Ks / 2 HR


I also had a guy with 75 for all three ratings. Here's how he fared:

Brian "Crazylegs" Goodman

20-5 3.68 230.0 IP / 62 BB / 163 Ks / 19 HR


* Please note that all other things about these four pitchers are equal (including duration (80), velocity (5), age (25), etc). Also, they are on the same team. I also made sure none of them got injured, or experienced ratings drops or bumps beyond a few points.

[kq76]

Great stuff Treedom! Thank you very much. I expected your results would be what they turned out to be, but it's nice to see it.

Have you planned on doing the same kind of experiment with batting? If not, please consider it. I know it might be fairly obvious what each rating should effect, but it would be nice to see that that is indeed how it turns out.

EDIT: chrisj did what I asked for above at: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...882#post662882

[canute]

I'm having trouble breaking myself of my OOTP5 habits... I keep picking pitchers based only on Movement and Control, without regard for Stuff. I forget that the game now rewards strikeouts at a more realistic rate...

[Matt from TN]

It's been my experience that "stuff" is the least important of the 3, a la Greg Maddux... He doesn't have a lot of pure stuff, but has a lot of control and movement on his pitches... A pitcher with stuff, but nothing else is IMO a "thrower" versus a "pitcher"

Stuff is nice, but not mandatory to be successful, while control and movement are much more key... treedom's short study is a perfect example...

IMO, stuff = avoiding hits... control = avoiding walks... movement is a combination of avoiding HR and the overall avoid runs rating... getting k's is movement, but also uses a combination of stuff & control...

[MNBob]

Here is how my top pitcher looks before and after conversion:
BEFORE: http://mattfuller14.phpwebhosting.com/bbl/p591.html
AFTER: http://mattfuller14.phpwebhosting.co...test/p591.html