With BABIP becoming a rating, what are some other ratings you would like to see added?

[Red08]

I would love if, in addition to BABIP pitchers could get a sequencing/tunneling and a pitch ability rating. I also would like to see extended catcher ratings. Instead of just "catcher ability" how about we split that out to framing, game calling, and control run game.

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by Red08

I would love if, in addition to BABIP pitchers could get a sequencing/tunneling and a pitch ability rating. I also would like to see extended catcher ratings. Instead of just "catcher ability" how about we split that out to framing, game calling, and control run game.

As one that fell for baseball before there was a concept of "pitch framing", a part of me still thinks of catchers having an amorphous quality of "game calling" that their pitchers certainly touted and believed in. I don't know if it's the same kind of thing as the retroactive catcher framing that BP and other saber sites put out there in a quantifiable fashion but that, to me, has always seemed its own separate skill. I know some framing has been added to the game recently (probably just in time for the robo umps) but I have not tinkered with it beyond the defaults.

Some of the pitching things you mention seems akin to things that would translate into results and so might be accounted for elsewhere, at least in historical play.

[fredbeene]

SPEED broken up into RAW Speed and Rate of Stealing (unclear why people are happy with this. I have ran and posted many sims showing how it is broken)
Stamina broken up into Stamina Starting Stamina Reliver (after 24 years we still can't have spot starters and long relievers and iron relivers like 70s relivers work correctly)
See strat for how they have successfully done it

[fredbeene]

1b ratings still don't work as irl.
Take tall player and they will have best 1b rating while gold glove 1b have average ratings

[Red08]

Originally Posted by fredbeene

SPEED broken up into RAW Speed and Rate of Stealing (unclear why people are happy with this. I have ran and posted many sims showing how it is broken)
Stamina broken up into Stamina Starting Stamina Reliver (after 24 years we still can't have spot starters and long relievers and iron relivers like 70s relivers work correctly)
See strat for how they have successfully done it

To piggyback off that, let's get raw power and game power

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by Red08

To piggyback off that, let's get raw power and game power

What's the difference? A measure of power that doesn't manifest in the game, like the legend Ichiro could suddenly become a HR hitter if he chose to? The game creates skills based on stats so I'm not sure where the raw power comes from if it isn't in the game as power. But maybe I'm just not clear what you mean....

[omg_pwnasaurus]

Maybe he means someone that can consistently win the HR Derby.

[SWAVcast]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

What's the difference? A measure of power that doesn't manifest in the game, like the legend Ichiro could suddenly become a HR hitter if he chose to? The game creates skills based on stats so I'm not sure where the raw power comes from if it isn't in the game as power. But maybe I'm just not clear what you mean....

The 20-80 scouting grade scale breaks out power into 2 different categories.

“Raw” power is graded via a combination of visual evaluation during batting practice (How far can you hit the ball?) and the max exit velocities I source from teams. As I’ve sourced max exit velocities, I’ve found that there are a couple different ways teams keep track of this data. Several of them wipe away the top couple exit velos to eliminate the possibility of outliers. Keep this in mind as you look at the “Max Exit Velocities” on The Board. It’s a big part of why the visual evaluation piece is still very important in this space.

“Game” power is a grade describing power output. While raw power is “How far/hard can they hit the ball?”, game power is “What is their power production like in actual games?” These two are often different for any number of reasons (often augmented by swing plane, approach, or hit tool quality). The present game power grades are derived the same way present hit tool grades are. If a player’s approach and/or swing currently enable power in games, they’ll be a present 25 or 35 depending on their age. If they lack present strength, or have a contact-oriented approach, or need a swing change to get there, it’ll be a 20 or 30 depending on their age. Once again, I try to put a present grade on the game power in a traditional sense only once the player is in the upper levels of the minors.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/how-to-u...rd-a-tutorial/

[eas9898]

The ratings are sufficient as is. BABIP is just a gimmicky rating. If they wanted to simulate something like that, there is pull/spray and groundball/flyball hitting attributes that would make more sense.

[wallewalls]

BABIP is a visible rating now? I know it's been a rating that is used to determine the contact rating, but you have to go into the player editor to see what the BABIP rating is.

[bailey]

BABIP isn't new, it was always there, but hidden. What other hidden ratings are there? I think pitchers have a hidden Hit Batter rating, for example.

[Bobfather]

Originally Posted by bailey

BABIP isn't new, it was always there, but hidden. What other hidden ratings are there? I think pitchers have a hidden Hit Batter rating, for example.

Not hidden if you are in commish mode

[rburgh]

BABIP isn't a rating, it's a stat.

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by rburgh

BABIP isn't a rating, it's a stat.

It is now!

[wallewalls]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

It is now!

BABIP has always been a rating though. That's why I'm confused by the OP. Is the BABIP rating changing in v24?

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by wallewalls

BABIP has always been a rating though. That's why I'm confused by the OP. Is the BABIP rating changing in v24?

It’s being added to pitchers primarily for historical purposes, because from what I can gather, a few pitch to contact guys always underperform (Jim Palmer for example, who I still think you’d rectify just by making the defenses behind him better) and a couple other situations where for example extreme power pitchers don’t get the 10-15 point boost they get IRL (I’m told they do get something, but nobody wants to say what, it’s not based purely on overall stuff, and it appears to not be enough for guys like Warren Spahn and Tom Seaver).

TBH I think it’s partially a sop to historical players who don’t want to hear that their faves were a little lucky back in the day and partially a papering over of other issues with historical play. I’m sure it’ll still be popular amongst a certain crowd (chiefly that crowd who didn’t like it when OOTP went with the DIPS model in the first place and who continue to insist that some guys can just lower BABIP in spite of evidence).

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by wallewalls

BABIP has always been a rating though. That's why I'm confused by the OP. Is the BABIP rating changing in v24?

Oh yeah this is a new pitcher BABIP rating.

[wallewalls]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

It’s being added to pitchers primarily for historical purposes, because from what I can gather, a few pitch to contact guys always underperform (Jim Palmer for example, who I still think you’d rectify just by making the defenses behind him better) and a couple other situations where for example extreme power pitchers don’t get the 10-15 point boost they get IRL (I’m told they do get something, but nobody wants to say what, it’s not based purely on overall stuff, and it appears to not be enough for guys like Warren Spahn and Tom Seaver).

TBH I think it’s partially a sop to historical players who don’t want to hear that their faves were a little lucky back in the day and partially a papering over of other issues with historical play. I’m sure it’ll still be popular amongst a certain crowd (chiefly that crowd who didn’t like it when OOTP went with the DIPS model in the first place and who continue to insist that some guys can just lower BABIP in spite of evidence).

Gotcha, thanks.

[Fabtron7]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

It’s being added to pitchers primarily for historical purposes.

It'll also be a really big deal in Perfect Team

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Fabtron7

I'll also be a really big deal in Perfect Team

That’s true as well, sure, and maybe PT is exactly where it belongs - when everyone has awesome defense behind them, the philosophies of a Jim Palmer suddenly don’t feel so awesome after all. For that guy in that game, which is already pretty fantastical, you give him a pretend pitch to contact bonus because IRL if he was somehow in a league like that he’d probably try to strike out more guys.