Dansby Swanson

dsvitak · 03-06-2023, 11:50 PM

I just got into it with a Cubs fan, who claimed that this dude is a front runner for MVP in the NL this year.

I tried to tell him that the only thing Swanson does well is to make outs...486 last year, leading the league.

Help me out here..am I being too harsh??

rudel.dietrich · 03-07-2023, 12:06 AM

Most smart Braves fans were not super upset that we let him walk.

He had a career year last year but that was with an OPS+ of 115
He is a good fielder. But nothing suggests he will take another leap and he turned 29 last month.

Now the bigger issue is that Atlanta really has no one to replace him...

But for the price he went for, those are resources that can be better spent elsewhere.

And there is a reason that of the four high dollar short stops from the off-season he was the last one off the market.

He was nice to have on his rookie minimum and arbitration. But not for money he makes now.

And for a #1 overall pick, we were just expecting a bit more and never got it.

dsvitak · 03-07-2023, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Most smart Braves fans were not super upset that we let him walk.

He had a career year last year but that was with an OPS+ of 115
He is a good fielder. But nothing suggests he will take another leap and he turned 29 last month.

Now the bigger issue is that Atlanta really has no one to replace him...

But for the price he went for, those are resources that can be better spent.

And there is a reason that of the four high dollar short stops from the off-season he was the last one off the market.

He was nice to have on his rookie minimum and arbitration. But not for money he makes now.

And for a #1 overall pick, we were just expecting a bit more and never got it.

The last year on a contract is called a "salary drive" for a reason...and should be viewed with considerable skepticism.

pilight · 03-07-2023, 10:56 PM

As a Braves fan I would have been pleased to have Swanson back at a reasonable price. No way should anybody be paying him what the Cubs are shelling out.

Amazin69 · 03-08-2023, 10:45 AM

Well, if you didn't point out that another M"V"P from a last-place team was unlikely to happen, you weren't too harsh. Andre Dawson was probably a once-off; the Cub fans may have been spoiled.

Swanson's a reasonably-productive hitter who plays shortstop. If the Cubs win 100 games, he'll get some votes. But "favorite" is stretching it quite a bit. JMO.

GeoWar · 03-08-2023, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Most smart Braves fans were not super upset that we let him walk.

He had a career year last year but that was with an OPS+ of 115
He is a good fielder. But nothing suggests he will take another leap and he turned 29 last month.

Now the bigger issue is that Atlanta really has no one to replace him...

But for the price he went for, those are resources that can be better spent elsewhere.

And there is a reason that of the four high dollar short stops from the off-season he was the last one off the market.

He was nice to have on his rookie minimum and arbitration. But not for money he makes now.

And for a #1 overall pick, we were just expecting a bit more and never got it.

Braves did not draft him , believe Arizona did.

Westheim · 03-08-2023, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoWar

Braves did not draft him , believe Arizona did.

Yes, and traded to the Braves in the same year, chiefly for Shelby Miller, in one of the most lop-sided trades in recent memory.

pilight · 03-08-2023, 03:39 PM

That's *All Star* Shelby Miller!

dsvitak · 03-08-2023, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Well, if you didn't point out that another M"V"P from a last-place team was unlikely to happen, you weren't too harsh. Andre Dawson was probably a once-off; the Cub fans may have been spoiled.

Swanson's a reasonably-productive hitter who plays shortstop. If the Cubs win 100 games, he'll get some votes. But "favorite" is stretching it quite a bit. JMO.

Google is your friend...players who won the MVP on crap teams:

Ripken, 1991 Baltimore, 67-95, 6th place
ARod, 2003 Rangers, 71-91, 4th place
Ernie Banks, 1958 Cubs, 72-92, 5th place
Andre Dawson, 1987 Cubs, 76-85, 6th place
Ernie Banks, 1959 Cubs, 74-80, 5th place

Banks is the one I feel bad for. Cubbies were 266 games below .500 for his career. Has to be some sort of a record there.

dsvitak · 03-08-2023, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazin69

Well, if you didn't point out that another M"V"P from a last-place team was unlikely to happen, you weren't too harsh. Andre Dawson was probably a once-off; the Cub fans may have been spoiled.

Swanson's a reasonably-productive hitter who plays shortstop. If the Cubs win 100 games, he'll get some votes. But "favorite" is stretching it quite a bit. JMO.

Cubs have zero chance of 100 wins..and zero chance of 90 wins. I would ESTIMATE a 40% chance of a winning record.

Just like the Cardinals, they're playing fewer games against Cincy, and Pittsburgh. Imagine how well the Cubbies will do against New York, the Dodgers, San Diego, and the Phillies.

Syd Thrift · 03-09-2023, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Google is your friend...players who won the MVP on crap teams:

Ripken, 1991 Baltimore, 67-95, 6th place
ARod, 2003 Rangers, 71-91, 4th place
Ernie Banks, 1958 Cubs, 72-92, 5th place
Andre Dawson, 1987 Cubs, 76-85, 6th place
Ernie Banks, 1959 Cubs, 74-80, 5th place

Banks is the one I feel bad for. Cubbies were 266 games below .500 for his career. Has to be some sort of a record there.

So… Dawson is the only man to win an MVP for a last place team then?

Westheim · 03-09-2023, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

So… Dawson is the only man to win an MVP for a last place team then?

The AL West still would have had four teams in 2003.

pilight · 03-09-2023, 08:36 AM

That looks good for Swanson. Most of them are Cubs and all but one are shortstops.

Syd Thrift · 03-09-2023, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

The AL West still would have had four teams in 2003.

ARod is no man

Westheim · 03-09-2023, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

ARod is no man

I concede, Sir. Well played.

Westheim · 03-09-2023, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Banks is the one I feel bad for. Cubbies were 266 games below .500 for his career. Has to be some sort of a record there.

What would the criterion be? Most games under .500 in career games played for a Hall of Famer? An All Star?

Because I'm sure we can find some 1930s Travis Blankenhorn that was on some woeful Browns teams or so, and racked up 300 games under .500 that way.

And I have nothing against Travis Blankenhorn. In fact, I like saying his name out loud.

+++

Edit: Baseball Almanac credits Rusty Staub (who holds the odd record, like 500+ hits with four different teams) with 1,633 losses in 2,951 games, so that would put him 315 under .500; that's all I can find while I am supposed to work

Syd Thrift · 03-09-2023, 03:18 PM

I want to say that record is held by Rusty Staub.

ETA: BBRef ran this in 2009, when they only had game data going back to 1954, but at that time it was Staub:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/b...ives/2765.html

dsvitak · 03-09-2023, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

What would the criterion be? Most games under .500 in career games played for a Hall of Famer? An All Star?

Because I'm sure we can find some 1930s Travis Blankenhorn that was on some woeful Browns teams or so, and racked up 300 games under .500 that way.

And I have nothing against Travis Blankenhorn. In fact, I like saying his name out loud.

+++

Edit: Baseball Almanac credits Rusty Staub (who holds the odd record, like 500+ hits with four different teams) with 1,633 losses in 2,951 games, so that would put him 315 under .500; that's all I can find while I am supposed to work

One of my favorite trivia questions is about Le Grande Orange...only player with 500+ hits for four different teams.

03-07-2023, 12:06 AM	#2
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608	Most smart Braves fans were not super upset that we let him walk. He had a career year last year but that was with an OPS+ of 115 He is a good fielder. But nothing suggests he will take another leap and he turned 29 last month. Now the bigger issue is that Atlanta really has no one to replace him... But for the price he went for, those are resources that can be better spent elsewhere. And there is a reason that of the four high dollar short stops from the off-season he was the last one off the market. He was nice to have on his rookie minimum and arbitration. But not for money he makes now. And for a #1 overall pick, we were just expecting a bit more and never got it. Last edited by rudel.dietrich; 03-07-2023 at 11:26 PM.

03-06-2023, 11:50 PM	#1
dsvitak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5,409	Dansby Swanson I just got into it with a Cubs fan, who claimed that this dude is a front runner for MVP in the NL this year. I tried to tell him that the only thing Swanson does well is to make outs...486 last year, leading the league. Help me out here..am I being too harsh??

03-07-2023, 10:56 PM	#4
pilight Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Action is Posts: 2,053	As a Braves fan I would have been pleased to have Swanson back at a reasonable price. No way should anybody be paying him what the Cubs are shelling out.

03-08-2023, 10:45 AM	#5
Amazin69 Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Palmetto Pride! Posts: 4,218 Infractions: 0/4 (4)	Well, if you didn't point out that another M"V"P from a last-place team was unlikely to happen, you weren't too harsh. Andre Dawson was probably a once-off; the Cub fans may have been spoiled. Swanson's a reasonably-productive hitter who plays shortstop. If the Cubs win 100 games, he'll get some votes. But "favorite" is stretching it quite a bit. JMO.

03-08-2023, 03:39 PM	#8
pilight Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Action is Posts: 2,053	That's All Star Shelby Miller!

03-09-2023, 08:36 AM	#13
pilight Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Where the Action is Posts: 2,053	That looks good for Swanson. Most of them are Cubs and all but one are shortstops.