The worst changeup you will tolerate in the draft?

[FlyTheW1104]

What is the lowest rated changeup you will tolerate from a pitcher in the draft. I'm talking about "current ability" not potential.

[FlyTheW1104]

Let me clarify... the reason I'm posting this is because changeups seem to develop about 1 time out of 50. haha

[pauwoo]

If the guy has three or more other pitches that top out high enough and he’s high W/E & INT, I might go late 1st round depending on need and the quality of the draft… if I need that change to develop or else dude’s an RP, then, depending in draft class quality, might start thinking about it late 3rd and beyond.

[KBLover]

Originally Posted by FlyTheW1104

What is the lowest rated changeup you will tolerate from a pitcher in the draft. I'm talking about "current ability" not potential.

Change up as 3rd out of 3 pitches? about 40. That's enough to let him at least try starting and if his other stats are good enough, he'll endure even if he never pushes it any further either due to lack of potential or lack of realizing potential.

If the change up is part of some pitcher's 5 or 6 (or more) pitch arsenal, I don't care as long as any 3 pitches are decent.

...Unless it's a guy with multiple fastballs. I think the game still counts that as "one pitch". I remember a guy with 4-seam, sinker, cutter, curve, and terrible change and when I SP him, he lost Stuff like he was a 2-pitch pitcher. So for these guys, I follow what I wrote in the first paragraph.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by KBLover

...Unless it's a guy with multiple fastballs. I think the game still counts that as "one pitch". I remember a guy with 4-seam, sinker, cutter, curve, and terrible change and when I SP him, he lost Stuff like he was a 2-pitch pitcher. So for these guys, I follow what I wrote in the first paragraph.

That's interesting! Not only does the game count them as the same, but is another fastball less effective than adding a curve or changeup IRL? Anyone seen anything on this?

[mytreds]

Just go in commish mode and edit out the really poor changeups. It's a old old old feature that they still have yet to correct.

[LuScorpio68]

Yup, I've had the problem in my recent OOTP21 save with a pitching prospect. He was a top 10 prospect but he's been sentenced to being in the bullpen because his change-up wouldn't develop over 40 when it has 60 potential according to my scout

[billyray1984]

If a changeup is below 40 at the draft, there really is too much chance that it never develops so I just ignore the changeup and check if the pitcher is still appealing to me.

[Sweed]

I use the 2-8 scale. On that a 4 if I am relying on him becoming a SP. If he shows two ++ pitches, IE 7/8 or better, for the other two a "show me" change up at 3 may work and will be considered. At worst I end up with a closer.

[Rain King]

Originally Posted by kq76

That's interesting! Not only does the game count them as the same, but is another fastball less effective than adding a curve or changeup IRL? Anyone seen anything on this?

Generally, if a guy has 2 different fastballs it is because he uses one against lefties and another against righties or uses one quite a bit more often than the other.

So, yes, having multiple fastballs is generally less affect than having another "type" of pitch as far as their role goes and the game recognizes this. Depending on the specific combination, though, it can help them be less vulnerable to platoon splits.

I don't have the time to look for it right now, but I'm pretty sure someone has done a deep dive on all of the pitches and how they can affect things and posted it here.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by mytreds

Just go in commish mode and edit out the really poor changeups. It's a old old old feature that they still have yet to correct.

Or, it could be a design decision based on too many of these pitchers developing will lead to an imbalance? One could argue "well then don't create these type of players. Or if you're going to create them don't create so many."? Fair enough but the consequence will be not being able to take a chance on one of these guys, later in the draft, and hoping they are that "1 in XXX" that does develop.

I think this also dovetails into why, so far, they haven't allowed users to attempt to train pitchers to throw/develop new pitches. With game balance in mind I would think they would have to code the game to make learning new effective pitches very hard to do successfully. Now come the complaints "I've had Joe Bagoballs working on a (name your pitch) forever and he just doesn't get it". "This feature is broke, why even have it in the game?" In the end I think this actually mimics real life. Teaching a new effective pitch is not an easy thing to do and, I think, fails way more than it is successful.

With regard to OOTP this is just my speculation but one does need to ask how having more of these change-ups improve, that results in more three pitch pitchers, going from good RP to good SP would affect the league, no?

Myself? Any player with three pitches and one of those pitches being low rated (not limited to change-ups) is treated as a two pitch RP and only drafted in later rounds unless he has the looks of a dominant closer with the two pitches he already has. If pitch three develops I've hit gold. If not I have the RP, I drafted in later rounds, in my minor league system that I always figured I'd end up with anyway.

[billyray1984]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Or, it could be a design decision based on too many of these pitchers developing will lead to an imbalance? One could argue "well then don't create these type of players. Or if you're going to create them don't create so many."? Fair enough but the consequence will be not being able to take a chance on one of these guys, later in the draft, and hoping they are that "1 in XXX" that does develop.

I think this also dovetails into why, so far, they haven't allowed users to attempt to train pitchers to throw/develop new pitches. With game balance in mind I would think they would have to code the game to make learning new effective pitches very hard to do successfully. Now come the complaints "I've had Joe Bagoballs working on a (name your pitch) forever and he just doesn't get it". "This feature is broke, why even have it in the game?" In the end I think this actually mimics real life. Teaching a new effective pitch is not an easy thing to do and, I think, fails way more than it is successful.

With regard to OOTP this is just my speculation but one does need to ask how having more of these change-ups improve, that results in more three pitch pitchers, going from good RP to good SP would affect the league, no?

Myself? Any player with three pitches and one of those pitches being low rated (not limited to change-ups) is treated as a two pitch RP and only drafted in later rounds unless he has the looks of a dominant closer with the two pitches he already has. If pitch three develops I've hit gold. If not I have the RP, I drafted in later rounds, in my minor league system that I always figured I'd end up with anyway.

Adding the ability to have a pitcher work on a new pitch would be cool, but the game already has pitchers learn new pitches by themselves (and the pitcher gets a nice tcr boost at the same time) : game balance with the AI would be hell too.

DeGrom learned a new pitch at age 37 in my current game.

I've also had one of those borderline starters with a 30 changeup develop a curveball.

Since he already had high stamina, high velo and sky high stuff and movement, after developping his curveball he basically became Sandy Koufax (without the injuries). 7 straight CY awards before age 32, a couple of his seasons with stats on the all time leaderboards, never missed a game or had a dtd injury and might catch Nolan Ryan in K.