Targeting

Ty Cobb · 11-17-2023, 08:31 AM

This clips should be shown to every HS player in the country. I've not seen an example this clear since Jack Tatum retired.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/sports...eting-penalty/

Ragnar · 11-17-2023, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

This clips should be shown to every HS player in the country. I've not seen an example this clear since Jack Tatum retired.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/sports...eting-penalty/

The only thing I see bad about what the defender did was somewhat involve his helmet. And I mean somewhat. In the 80s Ronnie Lott would have destroyed that WR without using his helmet at all. I don't know what you expect the safety to do. He has to hit the WR. There is no other choice.

CONN CHRIS · 11-17-2023, 09:52 AM

"somewhat involve his helmet"

I get as annoyed as anyone when these calls are close and seemingly ticky-tack but man, what planet are you living on?

Ty Cobb · 11-17-2023, 10:13 AM

The rule exists, and this is as clear an example as I think you'll see.

As for Ronnie Lott...a great, aggressive player. Give me 11 defenders like him, and I'll win every Super Bowl with an average offense.

low · 11-17-2023, 10:38 AM

Looks like a good way to permanently disable yourself. What a moron.

pilight · 11-17-2023, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I don't know what you expect the safety to do. He has to hit the WR. There is no other choice.

He could use his arms, at least a little bit. You tackle by wrapping someone up, not head butting them.

rudel.dietrich · 11-17-2023, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The only thing I see bad about what the defender did was somewhat involve his helmet. And I mean somewhat. In the 80s Ronnie Lott would have destroyed that WR without using his helmet at all. I don't know what you expect the safety to do. He has to hit the WR. There is no other choice.

Get your eyes checked

The defensive player did not even try and use his arms.

thehef · 11-17-2023, 05:54 PM

Seems like there are two components to this subject: 1) leading with the helmet, and 2) pummeling a defenseless player. Just sticking with #1 for now, seems to me that the problem in both college and the NFL is that they mostly only penalize when it's helmet-to-helmet contact, rather than the intent to lead with the helmet. Many times, though, the defender is leading with the helmet and then factors that are out of his control - like last split-second movement by the ball-carrier/receiver - determines whether it's actually helmet-to-helmet or helmet-to-some-other-part-of-the-body.

The solution: Penalize every player who leads with his helmet. Ejection followed by a two-game suspension. The NFL should sprearhead this effort so it trickles down to high school and lower (maybe it already does?). Zero tolerance for leading with the helmet, regardless of whether major, minor, or no contact with the helmet actually occurs.

As a sidebar, what strikes me is the different attitudes that the NFL vs NBA take on player safety. IMO, the NFL doesn't punish it enough, whereas the NBA punishes players for some really ticky-tacky stuff.

Cobra Mgr · 11-17-2023, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The only thing I see bad about what the defender did was somewhat involve his helmet. And I mean somewhat. In the 80s Ronnie Lott would have destroyed that WR without using his helmet at all. I don't know what you expect the safety to do. He has to hit the WR. There is no other choice.

i gotta go w/Conn Chris on this one. There were plenty of ways to initiate hard contact w/o looking like Renaldo going for a header. He didn't even use his shoulder pads. He used his head & that wasn't using his head.

Ragnar · 11-17-2023, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

i gotta go w/Conn Chris on this one. There were plenty of ways to initiate hard contact w/o looking like Renaldo going for a header. He didn't even use his shoulder pads. He used his head & that wasn't using his head.

Well that's the thing. It didn't look like hard contact to me. It almost looks like he tried to hurt himself by putting his head in the way. When you normally see someone target with their helmet, they charge in like a bull.

Cobra Mgr · 11-18-2023, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Well that's the thing. It didn't look like hard contact to me. It almost looks like he tried to hurt himself by putting his head in the way. When you normally see someone target with their helmet, they charge in like a bull.

Which is more damaging? Someone swinging at you with a pillow or someone accidently dropping a hammer on your head?

That is why they don't want anyone leading with the helmet. It is damaging to the wearer & the target. Doesn't matter if the contact is deemed "hard". But you ask me, a top athlete leaping to make his head the 1st point of contact is always going to be hard contact.

rudel.dietrich · 11-18-2023, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Well that's the thing. It didn't look like hard contact to me. It almost looks like he tried to hurt himself by putting his head in the way. When you normally see someone target with their helmet, they charge in like a bull.

Those rules are also in place to protect the tackler from head and neck injuries.

Ragnar · 11-18-2023, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Which is more damaging? Someone swinging at you with a pillow or someone accidently dropping a hammer on your head?

That is why they don't want anyone leading with the helmet. It is damaging to the wearer & the target. Doesn't matter if the contact is deemed "hard". But you ask me, a top athlete leaping to make his head the 1st point of contact is always going to be hard contact.

You're probably right. It just looked so weird. What the hell was he thinking? It almost looked like he didn't know how to tackle.

Syd Thrift · 11-19-2023, 08:17 PM

Yeah, not only is this obvious targeting, this is crap that was 100% illegal 30 years ago when we didn't have targeting rules because at that point in time we called this "spearing" and I'm sure that rule goes back at least to the 70s (I just remember it from 30 years ago because, well, I am old and that's when I played football in HS).

It's patently ridiculous that anyone in here claimed it as anything else. Frankly, wow. I know who I'm never, ever going to take seriously regarding contact in football now...

GeoWar · 11-20-2023, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehef

Seems like there are two components to this subject: 1) leading with the helmet, and 2) pummeling a defenseless player. Just sticking with #1 for now, seems to me that the problem in both college and the NFL is that they mostly only penalize when it's helmet-to-helmet contact, rather than the intent to lead with the helmet. Many times, though, the defender is leading with the helmet and then factors that are out of his control - like last split-second movement by the ball-carrier/receiver - determines whether it's actually helmet-to-helmet or helmet-to-some-other-part-of-the-body.

The solution: Penalize every player who leads with his helmet. Ejection followed by a two-game suspension. The NFL should sprearhead this effort so it trickles down to high school and lower (maybe it already does?). Zero tolerance for leading with the helmet, regardless of whether major, minor, or no contact with the helmet actually occurs.

As a sidebar, what strikes me is the different attitudes that the NFL vs NBA take on player safety. IMO, the NFL doesn't punish it enough, whereas the NBA punishes players for some really ticky-tacky stuff.

Every player -- do we look at offensive players also and linemen ...... ??

11-17-2023, 09:52 AM	#3
CONN CHRIS Global Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 28,740	"somewhat involve his helmet" I get as annoyed as anyone when these calls are close and seemingly ticky-tack but man, what planet are you living on? __________________ Check Out My Cards!

11-17-2023, 10:13 AM	#4
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,548 Blog Entries: 121	The rule exists, and this is as clear an example as I think you'll see. As for Ronnie Lott...a great, aggressive player. Give me 11 defenders like him, and I'll win every Super Bowl with an average offense. __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

11-17-2023, 10:38 AM	#5
low Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2010 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 5,914	Looks like a good way to permanently disable yourself. What a moron. __________________ My fictional team logos and uniforms

11-17-2023, 08:31 AM	#1
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 4,548 Blog Entries: 121	Targeting This clips should be shown to every HS player in the country. I've not seen an example this clear since Jack Tatum retired. https://nypost.com/2023/11/16/sports...eting-penalty/ __________________ "You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me." Thanos

11-17-2023, 05:54 PM	#8
thehef Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5,319	Seems like there are two components to this subject: 1) leading with the helmet, and 2) pummeling a defenseless player. Just sticking with #1 for now, seems to me that the problem in both college and the NFL is that they mostly only penalize when it's helmet-to-helmet contact, rather than the intent to lead with the helmet. Many times, though, the defender is leading with the helmet and then factors that are out of his control - like last split-second movement by the ball-carrier/receiver - determines whether it's actually helmet-to-helmet or helmet-to-some-other-part-of-the-body. The solution: Penalize every player who leads with his helmet. Ejection followed by a two-game suspension. The NFL should sprearhead this effort so it trickles down to high school and lower (maybe it already does?). Zero tolerance for leading with the helmet, regardless of whether major, minor, or no contact with the helmet actually occurs. As a sidebar, what strikes me is the different attitudes that the NFL vs NBA take on player safety. IMO, the NFL doesn't punish it enough, whereas the NBA punishes players for some really ticky-tacky stuff.