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Suggestions for Future OOTP Versions Post suggestions for the next version of Out of the Park Baseball here! |
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#1 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 147
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My list to Santa for future OOTP features
I have had a large number of OOTP editions and I have to admit that OOTP23 was the best yet. While prior to OOTP21 I had spent most of my time running yearly historical simulations or the current season projected forward with very few games manually played, for the last three years I have most concentrated on the manual game experience with OOTP.
OOTP23 had some very nice things for those using the manual game option. The stadiums were visually improved, the teams now had actual home and away pants instead of the basic white or basic gray of earlier OOTP, new animations included neat things like a different victory celebration and bad pitches occasionally blocked by the catcher and even more rarely an outfielder sometimes raising his glove after diving for a catch. The biggest change was something I probably would not have noticed except for the fact that I like to set up custom camera views in my manual games with some cams being very close to the players--instead of the same face for everyone OOTP23 had distinct front faces of players based upon their facegens. All in all, OOTP23 was a giant stride forward for manual game players. I do have a few items for future OOTP editions on my list to Santa. Whether they happen as a patch prior to OOTP24, with OOTP24, or far down the line will have to be determined by the developers. Here they are: 1. The Most Important Thing I Want--Baserunner Continuity. This happens each and every game. OOTP23 often removes the runner animation after he is called out even before an umpire would call all action complete. For examples, the batter/runner is often removed 10-45 feet from first base after flying out or being forced at first or a runner from first is often removed 10-45 feet from second base after being forced out. This removal of runners takes some of the suspense out of the game and it is unnecessary in my opinion. Suggestions: a. Have batter/runners always reach first base whether out or safe. If out on a force at first, have them run some distance down the line past the base before removing their animation. If out on a fly ball, have them run to first and slightly round the base towards second before removing their animation. b. Have all runners on all bases reach at least the next base on a play whether out or safe. Those forced out at second, third, or home should slide completely into the destination before removing their animation. Oddly, a runner from first will slide into second while being forced out there for a third out of an inning but he will be removed a good distance from second base on a force there for a first or second out. This wrecks any chance of the game visually matching with the text action of for example, " the runner breaks up the double play." Result: Having runner continuity in the sense that all runners will reach the next base whether safe or out before their animations are removed should add some dynamic visuals to the manual game and it could even cause some suspense as one waits for the out or safe call. (I would not care if the umpire misses the calls, I just want the animations.) Removing runners while the ball is in play unnecessarily lessens the excitement of manual games by making the calls predictable. Footnote: I know of two situations where I would suggest all players removed from the field: a. I would like all players removed from the field during a rain delay. Currently the defensive team just stays on the field in the rain. I guess they just roll the tarp over the players. b. Maybe someday OOTP will start with national anthems. All players should be off the field until the conclusion of the anthems. 2. The Second Thing I Want--Better Situational Defensive Response This happens in most games. Watch the response of the shortstop on balls hit to the left fielder with runners on base. In a good number of situations the animated shortstop responds to a ball hit to the left fielder by wrongly running into the infield grass and he lines up to cut off a potential throw to the catcher. I have seen the shortstop running in to cut off a throw to the catcher with a runner on third base on a routine short fly out to the left fielder, have seen the shortstop running there on a simple single to the left fielder with a runner on first base, and have seen the shortstop running in towards the catcher during plays to the left fielder in many other situations. Not even the 1962 Mets had shortstops so fundamentally unsound. The closest thing to something similar which would be correct would have the shortstop covering third while the third baseman lines up to cut off a throw to the catcher from the left fielder (runner on second, runners on first and second, bases loaded). Also notice the position of the first baseman on balls hit to the right fielder with runners on base. The first baseman properly sets up to cut off potential throws to the plate on some situations, but he oddly also sometimes sets up to cut off potential throws to the plate when he should be covering the first base inside like if and when the right fielder notices the batter/runner taking too wide of turn and the fielder throws behind the runner. I would prefer that the first baseman stay near the base on singles to the right fielder with runners on first or with runners on first and third. The animated first sacker is a little better in situational defensive response than the shortstop and so I will call him Throneberry, but OOTP should improve this. Suggestion: Have the animators review situational defensive responses while paying special attention to the shortstop and the first baseman (but other positions can also be improved for some situations). Maybe this link can be of help at the beginning: https://cdn1.sportngin.com/attachmen...Strategies.pdf Result: Improved situational defensive response will make for a much more attractive manual game. It will be more like watching a real game. Footnote: OOTP also has some proper defensive responses which for some reason don't seem to make any difference. I have seen the pitcher properly go to back up third base or home plate on occasions but have never seen that pitcher actually run down any overthrow by the outfielder of third or home (the third baseman or the catcher have to retrieve the ball while the pitcher just kind of stands there). Not So Much A Wish--Other Visual Stuff. While runner continuity problems happen in every manual OOTP game and while defensive situational problems happen in most manual OOTP games, other odd visual things happen rarely. While I will not place other visual stuff on my list to Santa, I do hope that others continue to report odd visuals to the proper Bug Forum. I might mention that I have seen things like outfielders actually standing on top of fences attempting to leap for a homerun, popouts to the catcher in front of the plate which don't go above the batter's head, dribblers to the pitcher which are supposed to be down the third base line which heads toward first and then takes a sharp 90 degree turn, and infielders tagging out stretching batter/runners while the infielder is turned backwards from the runner. Hopefully someday with the help of others the developers can address these situations. Footnote: If one wants to see for himself what I am talking about concerning my manual game wish list to Santa, check out published online manual OOTP games. I have myself published over 150 manually AI played OOTP22 and 23 games on YouTube and I have myself streamed over 1,250 manually AI played OOTP22 and 23 games on Twitch. From kcstengelsr OOTP YouTube and Twitch games, pick a game, any game and check out runner continuity and defensive responses. Judge for yourself about the worthiness of my two wishes to Santa. A Couple of Features Which Might Improve the Manual OOTP Game My games feature my own custom camera angles and custom sounds since I long ago came to lose interest in the default cams and sounds. Two suggestions: a. On future default sounds, add more ambients and have less rallies. My games typically have over 50 ambients available with around 5 rallies while the default game has about 18 ambients and 24 rallies. More ambients add variety. Less rallies mean the most important and most likely rallies are played more often. b. On future default camera views, I suggest that less are checked as Available for Action Cam (they can still be used as Action cam while unchecked in the Initial/Pitch/Action Game Action choices). It looks like the default game has about 19 cam views checked as Available for Action Cam and this large number usually results in lack of camera continuity. I normally have only 5 cam views checked as Available for Action Cam although I use other cam views in the Initial/Pitch/Action selection. Suggestion for OOTP, Manual or Not Please continue to improve the historical Negro Leagues database. While seven Negro Leagues are now considered as major leagues, setting up some years with the Negro Leagues typically only covers either the Negro National League or the Negro American League along with an additional team or two. Since all seven leagues are now major leagues they should all be included in future OOTP. See the list by scrolling down here: https://www.baseball-reference.com/n...ajor%20leagues. Two other issues are present with the Negro Leagues in OOTP: a. Most team rosters are not set up for an opening of a season. Trades were frequent, but all teams should be set up as of opening day for that particular year. b. Some players, even regular players, are missing from teams. I could not even find them in the minor league data base for that year and had to resort to cloning and renaming to resemble the player. A great source for improving the opening rosters and for filling in the blanks of the Negro Leagues rosters is Seamheads: https://www.seamheads.com/NegroLgs/ Wish for More Uniform Improvements OOTP23 was great with the pants addition but why not someday: a. Numbers and Names (for teams adding Names) on the backs of jerseys and for some teams numbers on the front. b. Checkbox option for batting helmets or cloth hats. c. Checkbox option for batting glove or no batting glove. d. Checkbox option for white shoes or black shoes. e. Checkbox option for another player model. This optional model would be set to wear shorter pants with stockings. And a Wish for a Future OOTP After fixing the Negro Leagues which are considered major leagues I would like it if OOTP someday would include at least the PCL and the International League for their complete durations. Right now you can only get PCL or International League years when at least one team was affiliated with a major league club that season. Both the PCL and the IL had long histories before any team had an affiliation. Well, just a few days before Santa. I have been kind of good this year in part because I am getting too old to cause much trouble. Maybe some of the things on my list will take place before another year passes. Happy holidays Marcus, developers, artists, animators, and everyone! Last edited by kcstengelsr; 12-26-2022 at 06:34 AM. |
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#2 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 16,379
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Excellent suggestions!
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#3 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,567
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I'll preface my comments like kc did. The one thing I'm really impressed with OOTP23 are the 3D improvements. Close-ups (or somewhat close-ups) of close plays was one of the things I wanted to see while playing OOTP22, and 23 started to give us that. I wasn't expecting them, but I really dig them each and every time! Thanks, devs.
1) Baserunner Continuity - I totally agree and it's on my wishlist too. It just takes you out of the moment. IRL, you're never sure on close plays, but with OOTP if the player disappears you know they're out. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it'd just be better if there was a bit more suspense. 2) Better Situational Defensive Response - That sounds great. I'm never totally sure what is the right move myself as I never played organized baseball, but I will occasionally see something and think, really? What bothers me even more, however, are the times players don't move at all. Even I know to go back up behind a base if I'm somewhere on the field completely out of the play and yet sometimes players will stand around doing nothing. Or worse, they'll get to the ball, the runners are still running and the fielder just holds onto the ball. Yes, sometimes it makes sense as you can imagine the fielder is thinking they probably won't get the runner out anyway and maybe it will be an error instead, but too often the fielder gets to the ball really early and does nothing. I know, those are probably just timing issues, but I'd like to see them ironed out. 3) Other Visual Stuff - The visual that's bothering me the most recently are the foul poles in the default ballpark model. Too often you see what end up being home runs look like they actually went foul. And that wouldn't be so bad except for the fact the right field pole itself looks like it's well into fair territory. But when you see a camera angle from LF looking at RF it looks fine. I know, I know, I could use one of the many other stadiums, but I play fictional leagues and I don't want to look at a ballpark and think, oh, "that's actually Turner Field". You'd think that, if any, the default model would be perfect and it's just not. I also see other issues with it from time to time, like the outfielders seemingly grab a flyball while phasing through the outfield wall like Kitty Pryde, but the worst by far is that right foul pole.
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Last edited by kq76; 12-23-2022 at 07:02 AM. Reason: showed the RF foul pole |
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#4 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 6,591
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Quote:
You are indeed correct that changing the view will show the post exactly where it's supposed to be. The ballpark is made to real life measurements as a 3d model. Like real life it is seen from that point of view which can fool the human eye. It's not unusual to be sitting in a real park and swear that a ball was fair or foul based on that POV only to be proven wrong with a replay on the HD scoreboard. This is no different. Another comparison would be the NFL and the goal line. How many times does one think a runner crossed the GL and scored due to the camera angle only find out they were short. It is perspective that causes the issue, not the model itself. But if one were playing an NFL video game with an unmoving camera they might think the GL was "off". The 3d model rotates with the pole in the correct place. To "fix" it from that POV they would literally have to put it where it isn't. Instead of the pole being in the correct place and fooling your eye making you think it was wrong. It would now be in the wrong place and fooling your eye into thinking it was in the right place. If they do that they need to have the game redraw the stadium every time that view is used which, I think, would require every park (if we're fixing them all) to have two models, or more if perspective from other angles causes the same. I played around with my Philadelphia stadium (that is used as the default in v23) and took a close shot of the foul pole. I also played around with the tilt of the default and wide cameras to see what could be done. What I found is as long as foul line is hidden behind the stands the skewed perspective is there. If you tilt the stadium until you can see the entire foul line the skewed perspective goes away. That's just one very quick manipulation of the camera. The ways to manipulate the camera are almost limitless so my "quick answer" could well be improved on with little time invested. I hope that helps. |
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#5 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,567
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I get what you're saying and I totally get optical illusions based on perspective, but I honestly think there's something wrong. The LF pole doesn't look nearly as bad, is that simply because its stands come in at the 3rd base line while the RF stands come in at an angle? Is it because the top of the RF wall is almost indistinguishable from the further back bullpen wall? I don't know, but I do know that it looks wrong every time a HR ball goes even just close to it.
It also doesn't help that the poles aren't just poles, they have a fence wing a foot or two wide that only go in which makes the actual pole look in fair territory. But I'm aware of all these things and those home runs still look foul. You're right, different camera angles help, but I think they need to remodel it a bit, like the bullpen or the stands or somehow make the actual pole more noticeable while making its fence wing less noticeable.
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#6 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 6,591
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#7 | |
Minors (Rookie Ball)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 29
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option to edit uniforms in next OOTP
to the developers of OOTP, especially Markus. Please give the option to edit the uniforms. What kcstengelsr said below in red.
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#8 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 147
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re Kg76's: "...but too often the fielder gets to the ball really early and does nothing. I know, those are probably just timing issues..."
I remember in these forums back with OOTP21 that a number of people complained that for example a base hit to an outfielder would sometimes be relayed to an infielder who would hold onto the ball while a runner from second not yet at third would run past third base and score. Marcus indicated then that it was a timing issue, but starting with OOTP22 and continuing into OOTP23 it appeared that one fix was to have the infielder sometimes run into the diamond incorrectly to receive the throw. Back in OOTP21 the shortstop usually was in his correct relay position in the outfield grass on hits to left field, but starting with OOTP22 he wrongly started to frequently run into the diamond to cut off a possible throw to the plate. It was the wrong way to treat one particular timing issue IMO. I wonder if the animators and playtesters are running their manual tests at the correct speed for the best eye of the viewer. After close to two thousand manual games with OOTP I personally prefer to have 3D Animation Speed at Slow (in Game, then Settings, then 3D and Facegens). Sometimes Slightly Slow looks better for the baserunners but I like Slow for the timing of ground ball outs. I imagine many people playing OOTP manually have 3D Animation Speed much faster than Slow, perhaps Normal or Accelerated. Faster 3D Speed will show the fielders getting to the batted balls much quicker, perhaps too quick for good animation results. I suggest that playtesters and animators try 3D Speed at Slow. Footnote: Add the pitchers and catchers to positions in need of situational response review. Sometimes they properly respond, sometimes they don't as sometimes the pitcher just remains on the pitcher's mound after a batted ball and sometimes the catcher on a batted ball stays behind the plate in situations when he should run towards first base. Thanks all of you who commented in this thread. I have no deadline for when my concerns might be addressed but I do play tons of OOTP manual games and I continue to notice a few things. |
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