Aging/Development Speed Settings question

[Situational_Lefty]

Does anyone have any input on the best settings for these options in OOTP19? I am going to play a standard MLB setup. I remember this being debated in past version in the Annual Settings Thread, but I did not see a thread for 19.

[dbqs]

I usually bump the dev up a tiny bit and aging a bit down, because I'm a big softy and get attached, I like having the same players play for longer. Hitters 1.010/0.990 and pitchers 1.020/0.980 or thereabouts.

[Syd Thrift]

I tend to drop aging down quite a bit (not sure what my settings are on that right now) with the caveat that I tend towards "god mode" type leagues. I'm not sure if there was a similar study done on MLB but I remember a few years back a study done on NFL quarterbacks found that fully half of the aging decline you see occurred in a player's last season as a starter. One way to interpret that is that when you age you fall off a cliff instead of decline gracefully, and I'm sure that's true to some extent. Another way to view that, though, is that when you're 25 and have a bad season you get more chances but if you're 35 and have a bad season you lose your job.

For me, to exacerbate this, the league I'm working with is currently in 1946, right before television became a thing and so right at the end of the period where independent minor league teams would stock up with guys whose major league playing days were done but who still were good enough to compete at the lower levels. I want to keep those mid to late 30s guys hang around every now and then even if they can't field and aren't quite good enough to hit for a first baseman in the bigs anymore.

[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I'm not sure if there was a similar study done on MLB but I remember a few years back a study done on NFL quarterbacks found that fully half of the aging decline you see occurred in a player's last season as a starter. One way to interpret that is that when you age you fall off a cliff instead of decline gracefully, and I'm sure that's true to some extent.

That makes sense. You see a lot of older ballplayers seem to go downhill suddenly. My concern is trying to strike the right balance. I want some youth in my league, but also want some old-timers too. I also want to avoid a logjam of talented big league ready youngster in the minors. It seems that there is quite the youth movement in the MLB nowadays.

[daniwen]

I would like to hear what others using also. I see info on 18 but not sure on 19. I'm just now getting serious about a league due to a crash bug. Like others would like see some players rarely hit 40.

[sprague]

Originally Posted by dbqs

I usually bump the dev up a tiny bit and aging a bit down, because I'm a big softy and get attached, I like having the same players play for longer. Hitters 1.010/0.990 and pitchers 1.020/0.980 or thereabouts.

I want the same thing in my games...but you know those numbers will do little for making a change.
I have my development for hitters 1.100 and pitchers 1.300 and it is still a relatively small amount of speed in their development, but does make it more what I want...you should test those settings and bump them up a bit like I have and see just how much change you notice.
Same with aging...I think my game now is .750 in order to keep a few players around 37 or 38 still being productive.

[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by sprague

I want the same thing in my games...but you know those numbers will do little for making a change.
I have my development for hitters 1.100 and pitchers 1.300 and it is still a relatively small amount of speed in their development, but does make it more what I want...you should test those settings and bump them up a bit like I have and see just how much change you notice.
Same with aging...I think my game now is .750 in order to keep a few players around 37 or 38 still being productive.

How are these settings with avoiding logjams for younger players? Do these settings still allow for some players to debut in the big leagues at 21 or 22?

[sprague]

Originally Posted by Situational_Lefty

How are these settings with avoiding logjams for younger players? Do these settings still allow for some players to debut in the big leagues at 21 or 22?

Works fine,

I even get a few 20 year olds up and able to start sometimes...usually by 22/23 the player is close to have reached his potential and is either up in mlb or likely not going to get there but as an injury replacement...about what I was hoping to achieve.


To really get players to develop fast you have to set the modifier over 2.000 even over 3.000 to see any real massive difference from the standard 1.000 out of the box

[NoOne]

yeah, defaults should be close to research/studies done. there are other threads where matt? or lukas? mention some tidbits about it too. how the curve is close to what ootp uses etc.

you will see andruw jones/griffey jr. (age 19, 18? respectively?) types. they just won't happen often as in real life, and way more likely to occur if a human controls tham vs the AI. you'll see a franco type that plays until 40 or even 43 and be decent, too. (maybe not 46 as franco, though, but maybe?).

if you want that stuff to happen more or less often, simply adjust. if not sure, take a restored backup of your league named 'temp' and let it run overnight. heck, let it run overnight and through your workday. turn off asthetic stuff and anything that speeds up sim times but doesn't affect your ML-level.

[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by NoOne

yeah, defaults should be close to research/studies done. there are other threads where matt? or lukas? mention some tidbits about it too. how the curve is close to what ootp uses etc.

you will see andruw jones/griffey jr. (age 19, 18? respectively?) types. they just won't happen often as in real life, and way more likely to occur if a human controls tham vs the AI. you'll see a franco type that plays until 40 or even 43 and be decent, too. (maybe not 46 as franco, though, but maybe?).

if you want that stuff to happen more or less often, simply adjust. if not sure, take a restored backup of your league named 'temp' and let it run overnight. heck, let it run overnight and through your workday. turn off asthetic stuff and anything that speeds up sim times but doesn't affect your ML-level.

I looked for recent threads regarding this topic but I was not able to find any before posting. I figured the defaults were probably researched closely because the game tends to improve on realism with every version. I was just wondering about the opinions of the other players that have delved deeper into the 19 version than I have.

ps: I anyone has links to previous posts about this for OOTP I would appreciate it. I haven't had luck in finding any.

[NoOne]

old threads... at least 2-3 years i'd guess.

related:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=220562

you'd have to read patch notes since 2012 to see if it's been adjusted. but i scanned and saw graphs comparing what i assume are RL and ootp data. (quickly scanned, lol, no reading) (EDIT- oops that's wrong graph, but similar. other showed better results closer to mlb - a 2013 thread of similar title)

one sec, may add more

this isn't wha ti mentioned above, but in same thread as previous -- http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...71&postcount=9

it says as much.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...33&postcount=9


EDIT:

quick note for searching forums... don't use the forum search append this to end of any Google.com search:

site:http://www.ootpdevelopments.com

it will work much better

i just used "aging markus site:www.ootpdevelopments.com"

[Syd Thrift]

To ensure that youngsters keep popping in when you expand the cohort of players who are at or near 100% of their full potential either by slowing down aging or increasing development speed, the way to make that work is to lower the number of players entering your universe every year. Since the vast majority of players enter via the draft, that's the way to go.

The rule of thumb is that you want the draft to have a number of rounds / player-round equal to 3-5 times the number of minor league levels you have with a minimum "level" of 1 if you're using nothing but reserve rosters. I worded that weirdly but it *does* matter if you're using semi-independent or fully independent minor leagues. If you've got, say, 16 teams and a total of 80 minor league teams but only have 32 of them affiliated, that means you want the draft *pool* to be be between 15 and 25 rounds long and the actual draft length to be between 6 and 10 rounds.

What I'm getting to is this: if you've created longer peaks by messing with the tools, you'll want to trend close to 3 rounds per level than to 5. 5 is all right for default settings but you might find 4 rounds to be enough if your peak length is longer. I don't have a hard and fast rule on this although I guess it'd make sense that having 20% more peak = having 20% fewer players, if that helps...

[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

To ensure that youngsters keep popping in when you expand the cohort of players who are at or near 100% of their full potential either by slowing down aging or increasing development speed, the way to make that work is to lower the number of players entering your universe every year. Since the vast majority of players enter via the draft, that's the way to go.

The rule of thumb is that you want the draft to have a number of rounds / player-round equal to 3-5 times the number of minor league levels you have with a minimum "level" of 1 if you're using nothing but reserve rosters. I worded that weirdly but it *does* matter if you're using semi-independent or fully independent minor leagues. If you've got, say, 16 teams and a total of 80 minor league teams but only have 32 of them affiliated, that means you want the draft *pool* to be be between 15 and 25 rounds long and the actual draft length to be between 6 and 10 rounds.

What I'm getting to is this: if you've created longer peaks by messing with the tools, you'll want to trend close to 3 rounds per level than to 5. 5 is all right for default settings but you might find 4 rounds to be enough if your peak length is longer. I don't have a hard and fast rule on this although I guess it'd make sense that having 20% more peak = having 20% fewer players, if that helps...

Thanks for the input on the number of draft rounds. That is something I really did not consider.

On a related note, what do you think about service time limits for minor leagers? I have gone back and forth on this issue. The reason I like service limits is that I hate seeing 28, 29, 30 year olds in A-ball or even Rookie Ball. However, running some tests, I have noticed that having service limits seems to actually cause the CPU teams to leave young players in lower minors a lot longer than they would normally. I have seen top prospects languish in the GCL and Low A for several years, even though their stats and ratings show they should have been playing at least a level or 2 higher.

Without the limits, they seem to be promoted based on ratings and stats, but then you have the 30 year olds in A-ball. With the limits in place, prospects seem to be only promoted because they have reached the service limit for their respective minor league level. I am just trying to find the right balance and am interested in hearing other players opinions on this.

[Syd Thrift]

I think teams *do* put some older players, particularly catchers and relief pitchers, in the lower minors sometimes. I haven't done much in the way of modern leagues and personally I kind of like having older players in the lower minors in historically based leagues.

I do think that you're probably on to something there. I think the AI, when evaluating the team, first thinks "do I want this guy on my roster" and then only after it decides that does it think "what level do I want to put him at".

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Situational_Lefty

Thanks for the input on the number of draft rounds. That is something I really did not consider.



On a related note, what do you think about service time limits for minor leagers? I have gone back and forth on this issue. The reason I like service limits is that I hate seeing 28, 29, 30 year olds in A-ball or even Rookie Ball. However, running some tests, I have noticed that having service limits seems to actually cause the CPU teams to leave young players in lower minors a lot longer than they would normally. I have seen top prospects languish in the GCL and Low A for several years, even though their stats and ratings show they should have been playing at least a level or 2 higher.



Without the limits, they seem to be promoted based on ratings and stats, but then you have the 30 year olds in A-ball. With the limits in place, prospects seem to be only promoted because they have reached the service limit for their respective minor league level. I am just trying to find the right balance and am interested in hearing other players opinions on this.

I use service limits along with age limit. Much better results.


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[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I use service limits along with age limit. Much better results.


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I am curious, what limits do you use?

[DaBears]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

I use service limits along with age limit. Much better results.

I used to use age limits before OOTP added the option for years of service, then did that alone for a couple of seasons. Agree here, though, I do think it works better in the game when you combine them. I am still playing with it a bit, but seem to find the following to work pretty well:

Age/Service Time (Roster size)
AAA: No limits (26)
AA: No limits (26)
A+: 26/6 (30)
A-: 25/5 (30)
S-A: 23/4 (35)
R: 21/2 (35)
DRL: 22/4 (No Limit)

A couple of notes:
*I am still debating Rookie level being 2 or 3 years of service. I want a college junior to be able to start there (briefly), but do not want high schoolers sitting there for 3 full years. Thus, my balance, but I’m not sure yet it is right.
*DRL just confuses me, so I have left it more open.

[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by DaBears

I used to use age limits before OOTP added the option for years of service, then did that alone for a couple of seasons. Agree here, though, I do think it works better in the game when you combine them. I am still playing with it a bit, but seem to find the following to work pretty well:



Age/Service Time (Roster size)

AAA: No limits (26)

AA: No limits (26)

A+: 26/6 (30)

A-: 25/5 (30)

S-A: 23/4 (35)

R: 21/2 (35)

DRL: 22/4 (No Limit)



A couple of notes:

*I am still debating Rookie level being 2 or 3 years of service. I want a college junior to be able to start there (briefly), but do not want high schoolers sitting there for 3 full years. Thus, my balance, but I’m not sure yet it is right.

*DRL just confuses me, so I have left it more open.

For DSL i set the age to 19 and service to 3. To avoid roster error I just make sure the game creates enough IFA’s.


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[SirMichaelJordan]

Originally Posted by Situational_Lefty

I am curious, what limits do you use?

Not sure what I have it at right now. I’ll have to check the save game later.


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[Situational_Lefty]

Originally Posted by SirMichaelJordan

For DSL i set the age to 19 and service to 3. To avoid roster error I just make sure the game creates enough IFA’s.


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I really wish we could get rid of the International Complex and just have the DSL, but I do not think that is an option. Having both the DSL and the Complex seems kind of redundant.