Aging players and errors

[Karl Pagel Blues]

I understand that as players age certain physical deterioration occurs. (I feel it myself every day!)

If Mike Trout's outfield range and arm decrease as he passes his mid-30's, I understand. But why do his error numbers also worsen? Just because he isn't getting to balls that he caught before doesn't mean that he's also automatically dropping more outs or making bad throws that result in an 'E'.

The same applies to all position players. Yes, they don't have the range or arm that they used to, but does that have to mean they're also making more errors?

Not necessarily, in my opinion. What do you guys think?

[Dyzalot]

According to dWAR as listed on Baseball Reference, Ozzie Smith had his best defensive year at shortstop at the age of 34. How many shortstops in the OOTP universe can make that claim?

[battists]

I think it's reasonable, but that's just me anecdotally speaking from experience about things I think I can do now that my body doesn't agree with.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

According to dWAR as listed on Baseball Reference, Ozzie Smith had his best defensive year at shortstop at the age of 34. How many shortstops in the OOTP universe can make that claim?

Cal Ripken's best seasons afield were essentially a dead heat between his age 24 season (as you'd expect) and his age 31 season (as you probably wouldn't). The latter was built primarily on his ability to avoid errors though.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Cal Ripken's best seasons afield were essentially a dead heat between his age 24 season (as you'd expect) and his age 31 season (as you probably wouldn't). The latter was built primarily on his ability to avoid errors though.

Wade Boggs also had his best defensive season at age 31. I'm not sure OOTP models how veterans deal with eroding skills to maintain their defense. I don't know if there is truth to it but I remember announcers back in the 70's & 80's talk about some veterans ability to make up for their diminishing range in the field with better positioning before the pitch and smarter decisions once the ball is put in play. Maybe OOTP needs to treat players with a high intelligence and work effort differently than say a player who tends to rely on his natural ability in how their defensive abilities evolve over their career.

[NoOne]

i've seen a couple SS recently do well into 30's. i had an ozzie smit type that was winning gold gloves through late 30's. not often, though. if i recall... ~330 zone rating for career at SS... think 16-19years or so ish, so a very high level per year. i had brought him up as a defensive bench ss/if at 19, becuase he was ~50contact and speedy/stealy kinda guy. 3 years later he's off on his career, i potential cost him hundreds of AB and good SS years.

are you sure age is the acause for the increased errors?

go duplicate trout a few times (pairs). distribute in league to increase the test for fewer years without screwing up the stats too much, i.e. not too many. then make 1 30 and 1 25, lock ratings so no development or whatever. compare fielding. i'd bet it's just random as long as ratings are equal and not a rookie/extremely fresh experience, just in case that's a factor.

if they maintain their raitngs, which rarely at tough positions can they do so into 30's, they will be good defensive players. i trade these guys away religiously, but keep an eye on they guys that did very well for me, often.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Wade Boggs also had his best defensive season at age 31. I'm not sure OOTP models how veterans deal with eroding skills to maintain their defense. I don't know if there is truth to it but I remember announcers back in the 70's & 80's talk about some veterans ability to make up for their diminishing range in the field with better positioning before the pitch and smarter decisions once the ball is put in play. Maybe OOTP needs to treat players with a high intelligence and work effort differently than say a player who tends to rely on his natural ability in how their defensive abilities evolve over their career.

I think intelligence and work ethic both conspire to make guys' abilities dip less over time already. Personally, I'd prefer it if the game made, for instance, the avoid errors ability decay less swiftly than range and arm, which it might already do, I'm not sure.

[dannibalcorpse]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I think intelligence and work ethic both conspire to make guys' abilities dip less over time already. Personally, I'd prefer it if the game made, for instance, the avoid errors ability decay less swiftly than range and arm, which it might already do, I'm not sure.

To tie it into what the earlier posters have said, maybe make it so players with higher intelligence ratings see the Error rating dip a little less than others since they'd be using their baseball IQ & situational awareness to make sure they're in a better position to make a play they might not still have the range to make naturally

[Syd Thrift]

There's also behind-the-scenes calculations there where a guy with a low Arm, for example, might have an Avoid Errors rating of 200 but will still commit his fair share of errors (and then some), the reasoning being that if he can't really make the throw then he has little to no margin for error (whereas a guy with a high Arm could juggle the transfer or something but still be able to gun a would-be baserunner down).

I agree that I'd like to see Error rating erode less than the other ratings in general, and of course since Intelligence and Work Ethic play into erosion speed, that would factor in. I'm not 100% sure I'd prefer it to be a *greater* factor for Errors than for other items; it does seem to me like cagey vets in the outfield especially have ways to account for declining arm strength and range as well, for instance.