Underrated Outfielders

02-17-2003, 02:33 PM

Hey, its me again. It took a while but I got out my 2nd article. Read up. http://goaltending.8k.com . Its about 2 underrated OF's.

Cole · 02-17-2003, 04:13 PM

Good article... nice site.

And just out of curiosity, how do you pronounce your first name?

darkhorse · 02-17-2003, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yyzlin
Hey, its me again. It took a while but I got out my 2nd article. Read up. goaltending.8k.com . Its about 2 underrated OF's.

Why not just provide a direct link to click on, I'm lazy, ya know.

jmaness84 · 02-18-2003, 04:23 AM

Well its late where im from now so i just glanced over it. I recall something about you saying that Rickey Henderson was underrated and not given credit of being one of the best baseball players ever. Id have to totally agree w/ u. Id mention Henderson in the arguement of the greatest baseball players way ahead of even mentioning guys like Bonds. Henderson is definently the greatest leadoff hitter of the modern era and holds a lot of important records (especially for a leadoff hitter that he is/was. Such as runs, and walks (Stolen bases but some think they are underrated (Not me))! However for the past 3-5 years he has been playing for 1 or both of the following reasons, b/c he hasnt been that effective over the period. 1) He likes to boast his stats up and/or he just loves to play the game . As of now he is trying to get signed, but no one wants him. He has even lowered himself to attend the Colorado Rockies Try out Camps! Sad to see a great player such as himself do it. Heres some relevent Rickey News

holyroller · 02-18-2003, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
Id mention Henderson in the arguement of the greatest baseball players way ahead of even mentioning guys like Bonds.

Career totals:

Barry Bonds .295/.428/.595
Rickey Henderson .279/.402/.419

Care to back up and/or revise that statement?

darkhorse · 02-18-2003, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
Career totals:

Barry Bonds .295/.428/.595
Rickey Henderson .279/.402/.419

Care to back up and/or revise that statement?

You didn't post stolen base totals, and Henderson wastes sorry ass Bonds in that category.

kq76 · 02-18-2003, 05:36 AM

G H 2B HR RBI SB BB
Bonds 2439 2462 514 613 1652 493 1922
Henderson 3051 3040 509 295 1110 1403 2179

Taken per game, Bonds wins in hits, 2B, HR, RBI, BB (the last 4 by a large margin), loses in SB. I know who I'd rather have on my team.

twins15 · 02-18-2003, 05:14 PM

Good article Yyzlin.

02-18-2003, 05:29 PM

Hey, thanks for the comments guys. What do you guys think of Raines? I definately think he is greatly underrated. When people think of great players in the last 20 years, I doubt anyone ever mentions him. Raines almost equaled Henderson production at his peak and was as productive as Rose. Yet, he often goes neglected. I really hope he makes the Hall. He deserves it.

fantom1979 · 02-18-2003, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kq76
G H 2B HR RBI SB BB
Bonds 2439 2462 514 613 1652 493 1922
Henderson 3051 3040 509 295 1110 1403 2179

Taken per game, Bonds wins in hits, 2B, HR, RBI, BB (the last 4 by a large margin), loses in SB. I know who I'd rather have on my team.

I would never say that Henderson is better then Bonds, but it is fair to mention that Henderson is the All Time Leader in runs scored with 2288.

jmaness84 · 02-18-2003, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Care to back up and/or revise that statement?

Nope. Bonds has only .020 point higher obp. Pitchers arent that afraid of Henderson as they are Bonds. As of now Henderson is a below average hitter but he will still draw tons of walks. For the most part Bonds obp has been due to the fact of the IBB he has been getting. Dont get me wrong he has a great eye, but Henderson OBP% is much more impressive do tho the fact pitchers arent scared to pitch to him (definently not anymore).

Last year Henderson batted .223, but still had a .369 obp. In 96 Henderson hit .241, but had a .410 obp. That is amazing!! If Bonds hit somewhere in that range, then he would have a way lower obp. Plus Bonds never stole anywhere near 130 bases

Dwolfson20 · 02-18-2003, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
Nope. Bonds has only .020 point higher obp. Pitchers arent that afraid of Henderson as they are Bonds. As of now Henderson is a below average hitter but he will still draw tons of walks. For the most part Bonds obp has been due to the fact of the IBB he has been getting. Dont get me wrong he has a great eye, but Henderson OBP% is much more impressive do tho the fact pitchers arent scared to pitch to him (definently not anymore).

Huh? Didn't Bonds just set the all-time walks record twice in a row? If pitchers are more scared of Bonds, doesn't that mean he's a more fearsome hitter?

holyroller · 02-18-2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
Nope. Bonds has only .020 point higher obp. Pitchers arent that afraid of Henderson as they are Bonds. As of now Henderson is a below average hitter but he will still draw tons of walks. For the most part Bonds obp has been due to the fact of the IBB he has been getting. Dont get me wrong he has a great eye, but Henderson OBP% is much more impressive do tho the fact pitchers arent scared to pitch to him (definently not anymore).

You are also completely leaving out the huge difference in slugging percentage. I love Rickey Henderson, he was the dominant player of the 80's, but there is no rational argument for saying that he was better than Bonds.

holyroller · 02-18-2003, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dwolfson20
Huh? Didn't Bonds just set the all-time walks record twice in a row? If pitchers are more scared of Bonds, doesn't that mean he's a more fearsome hitter?

Hey, no logic allowed

jmaness84 · 02-18-2003, 06:47 PM

Take in account Bonds best numers came in the era where it was common for players hitting 50 homers, Henderson best years were in the 80's, when the offense wasnt as plentiful as it is now.

twins15 · 02-18-2003, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
Plus Bonds never stole anywhere near 130 bases

And Henderson never hit anywhere near 73 HR's.

holyroller · 02-18-2003, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jmaness84
Take in account Bonds best numers came in the era where it was common for players hitting 50 homers, Henderson best years were in the 80's, when the offense wasnt as plentiful as it is now.

Ok, let's take it in to account then. Here is their OPS+ which factors in ballpark and league data:

Henderson - 128
Bonds - 177

sixto · 02-18-2003, 09:23 PM

Jon - Henderson is a great player, a Hall of Famer. Bonds is not the right comparison.

Yyzlin - Tim Raines is indeed an underrated player. You're probably young enough that you might not even know he got into some trouble with drugs way early in his career, which colored a lot of peoples' perception of him, fairly or unfairly. He's got a lot of HOF credibility, but he'll need some vocal advocates if he's to get in on the BBWAA ballot, I think.

darkhorse · 02-18-2003, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
Ok, let's take it in to account then. Here is their OPS+ which factors in ballpark and league data:

Henderson - 128
Bonds - 177

Big deal, doesn't take into account those madass stolen base totals.

jmaness84 · 02-18-2003, 11:38 PM

So Sosa has hit a lot more homers in the past 5 years than Bonds, and i dont even think Sosa is in the top 50 greatest offensive players

02-17-2003, 02:33 PM	#1
Yyzlin Guest Posts: n/a	Underrated Outfielders Hey, its me again. It took a while but I got out my 2nd article. Read up. http://goaltending.8k.com . Its about 2 underrated OF's. Last edited by Yyzlin; 02-17-2003 at 09:32 PM.

02-18-2003, 04:23 AM	#4
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Well its late where im from now so i just glanced over it. I recall something about you saying that Rickey Henderson was underrated and not given credit of being one of the best baseball players ever. Id have to totally agree w/ u. Id mention Henderson in the arguement of the greatest baseball players way ahead of even mentioning guys like Bonds. Henderson is definently the greatest leadoff hitter of the modern era and holds a lot of important records (especially for a leadoff hitter that he is/was. Such as runs, and walks (Stolen bases but some think they are underrated (Not me))! However for the past 3-5 years he has been playing for 1 or both of the following reasons, b/c he hasnt been that effective over the period. 1) He likes to boast his stats up and/or he just loves to play the game . As of now he is trying to get signed, but no one wants him. He has even lowered himself to attend the Colorado Rockies Try out Camps! Sad to see a great player such as himself do it. Heres some relevent Rickey News Last edited by jmaness84; 02-18-2003 at 04:33 AM.

02-18-2003, 05:36 AM	#7
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,799	G H 2B HR RBI SB BB Bonds 2439 2462 514 613 1652 493 1922 Henderson 3051 3040 509 295 1110 1403 2179 Taken per game, Bonds wins in hits, 2B, HR, RBI, BB (the last 4 by a large margin), loses in SB. I know who I'd rather have on my team. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project)

02-18-2003, 05:14 PM	#8
twins15 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Area 51 Posts: 4,792	Good article Yyzlin. __________________ "Ah man we're just hungry man" - Dovonte Edwards Bismarck Boy Scouts of the OTBL - league yes-man Ross Gload at baseball-reference.com Book Quotes and Book Lists

02-17-2003, 04:13 PM	#2
Cole Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Posts: 2,685	Good article... nice site. And just out of curiosity, how do you pronounce your first name?

02-18-2003, 05:29 PM	#9
Yyzlin Guest Posts: n/a	Hey, thanks for the comments guys. What do you guys think of Raines? I definately think he is greatly underrated. When people think of great players in the last 20 years, I doubt anyone ever mentions him. Raines almost equaled Henderson production at his peak and was as productive as Rose. Yet, he often goes neglected. I really hope he makes the Hall. He deserves it.

02-18-2003, 06:47 PM	#15
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	Take in account Bonds best numers came in the era where it was common for players hitting 50 homers, Henderson best years were in the 80's, when the offense wasnt as plentiful as it is now.

02-18-2003, 09:23 PM	#18
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,262	Jon - Henderson is a great player, a Hall of Famer. Bonds is not the right comparison. Yyzlin - Tim Raines is indeed an underrated player. You're probably young enough that you might not even know he got into some trouble with drugs way early in his career, which colored a lot of peoples' perception of him, fairly or unfairly. He's got a lot of HOF credibility, but he'll need some vocal advocates if he's to get in on the BBWAA ballot, I think.

02-18-2003, 11:38 PM	#20
jmaness84 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 1,685	So Sosa has hit a lot more homers in the past 5 years than Bonds, and i dont even think Sosa is in the top 50 greatest offensive players