Historical with recalc off.

[David Watts]

Just curious if anyone else plays this way?

[FunkyBike1]

I have in the past. Taking away recalc also takes away part of the "human advantage" so there is a more level playing field.

[Carlton]

I do

and I have had guys like Hank Greenberg and Spud Chandler fall off the cliff at 33
Had guys like Charlie Gilbert of the Dodgers have 3 great years of 30 HRs and 30 Sbs then fall to 16-8-2 Hrs

I had Red Durrett, who had 48 career Abs with the Dodgers and was created as a poor player spend 4 years in the Cardinals Minor Leagues and come out as the top HR hitter of the 40's and 50's, winning 4 WS with them and 3 MVP+ 2 WS MVPs later getting traded to the pirates who happened to luck into getting Kiner and setting team HR records with 52 HR for him and 50 for Kiner on the way to 2 more MVPs and another WS MVP award

Joe Medwick stayed strong until 42, bouncing around the league in PT duty, while chasing the doubles record and making the HOF, as he was part of 10 WS teams

I've also had Don Newcombe converted to a RFer

I've had Mort Cooper become a mainstay for the early 40's Cardinals dynasty run by Billy Southworth, but a wrist injury and then shoulder woes made him half the P he was, yet he stayed in the league 6 more years mainly as a RP. With recalc on, I don't think his role would have been reinvented, he'd have started like the injury was time off, and not the 3rd pitch drain that it was. A SP must have 3 pitch ratings over 30 and a stamina over 50 I've noticed. He went from a curve ball at 48 to an 28 curveball and was regulated to #2 MR who spot started 20% and did well.

Those things are very hard to do with recalc on and as you can see, they aren't overdone. I still had Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio (although he got injured quite often in the 40's) Arky Vaughn, Luke Appling, The Waners, Bob Feller, Satchel Paige as dominant HOFers

But I had enough of 'wow, who is that guy? type scenarios, if even for one season like Pat Seerey of the Reds hitting .228 and slugging 50 Hrs playing CF (his worst position) in 1946 or Allie Reynolds spending 80% of his career in AAA where it makes it less predictable and fun

The OOTP development engine is pretty good, just be sure to lower the randomness to 90 or 80

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Carlton

I do

and I have had guys like Hank Greenberg and Spud Chandler fall off the cliff at 33
Had guys like Charlie Gilbert of the Dodgers have 3 great years of 30 HRs and 30 Sbs then fall to 16-8-2 Hrs

I had Red Durrett, who had 48 career Abs with the Dodgers and was created as a poor player spend 4 years in the Cardinals Minor Leagues and come out as the top HR hitter of the 40's and 50's, winning 4 WS with them and 3 MVP+ 2 WS MVPs later getting traded to the pirates who happened to luck into getting Kiner and setting team HR records with 52 HR for him and 50 for Kiner on the way to 2 more MVPs and another WS MVP award

Joe Medwick stayed strong until 42, bouncing around the league in PT duty, while chasing the doubles record and making the HOF, as he was part of 10 WS teams

I've also had Don Newcombe converted to a RFer

I've had Mort Cooper become a mainstay for the early 40's Cardinals dynasty run by Billy Southworth, but a wrist injury and then shoulder woes made him half the P he was, yet he stayed in the league 6 more years mainly as a RP. With recalc on, I don't think his role would have been reinvented, he'd have started like the injury was time off, and not the 3rd pitch drain that it was. A SP must have 3 pitch ratings over 30 and a stamina over 50 I've noticed. He went from a curve ball at 48 to an 28 curveball and was regulated to #2 MR who spot started 20% and did well.

Those things are very hard to do with recalc on and as you can see, they aren't overdone. I still had Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio (although he got injured quite often in the 40's) Arky Vaughn, Luke Appling, The Waners, Bob Feller, Satchel Paige as dominant HOFers

But I had enough of 'wow, who is that guy? type scenarios, if even for one season like Pat Seerey of the Reds hitting .228 and slugging 50 Hrs playing CF (his worst position) in 1946 or Allie Reynolds spending 80% of his career in AAA where it makes it less predictable and fun

The OOTP development engine is pretty good, just be sure to lower the randomness to 90 or 80

How did you set it up? Did you have any minor leagues? Fictional players.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Carlton

I do

and I have had guys like Hank Greenberg and Spud Chandler fall off the cliff at 33
Had guys like Charlie Gilbert of the Dodgers have 3 great years of 30 HRs and 30 Sbs then fall to 16-8-2 Hrs

I had Red Durrett, who had 48 career Abs with the Dodgers and was created as a poor player spend 4 years in the Cardinals Minor Leagues and come out as the top HR hitter of the 40's and 50's, winning 4 WS with them and 3 MVP+ 2 WS MVPs later getting traded to the pirates who happened to luck into getting Kiner and setting team HR records with 52 HR for him and 50 for Kiner on the way to 2 more MVPs and another WS MVP award

Joe Medwick stayed strong until 42, bouncing around the league in PT duty, while chasing the doubles record and making the HOF, as he was part of 10 WS teams

I've also had Don Newcombe converted to a RFer

I've had Mort Cooper become a mainstay for the early 40's Cardinals dynasty run by Billy Southworth, but a wrist injury and then shoulder woes made him half the P he was, yet he stayed in the league 6 more years mainly as a RP. With recalc on, I don't think his role would have been reinvented, he'd have started like the injury was time off, and not the 3rd pitch drain that it was. A SP must have 3 pitch ratings over 30 and a stamina over 50 I've noticed. He went from a curve ball at 48 to an 28 curveball and was regulated to #2 MR who spot started 20% and did well.

Those things are very hard to do with recalc on and as you can see, they aren't overdone. I still had Stan Musial, Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio (although he got injured quite often in the 40's) Arky Vaughn, Luke Appling, The Waners, Bob Feller, Satchel Paige as dominant HOFers

But I had enough of 'wow, who is that guy? type scenarios, if even for one season like Pat Seerey of the Reds hitting .228 and slugging 50 Hrs playing CF (his worst position) in 1946 or Allie Reynolds spending 80% of his career in AAA where it makes it less predictable and fun

The OOTP development engine is pretty good, just be sure to lower the randomness to 90 or 80

I don't think I could play deadball with recalc on. Just too many short career players involved. I love using development and seeing guys that only played a few years get to stick around. I started my latest in 1904 and I'm now in 1912. Christy Mathewson dominated to start out, but he hit the wall at 30. Going to be interesting to see how many more years he sticks around. Walter Johnson is on a horrible Atlanta team and has had some flashes of greatness, but hasn't totally gelled yet. Rube Waddell has been the most dominant pitcher in the league Home Run Baker has strung together 3 amazing seasons, hitting a new record 19 home runs in 1911.

[Carlton]

RChW

I had the PCL as AAA non affiliated team, since I used Spritze's professional debut DB with Negro/PCL/Japanese players, usually those players I assigned to the PCL, where most stayed a majority of their careers, unless they were so dominant, I played God and had them traded to a MLB AAA team

I had the American Association, International League as AAA. Texas League and Southern Association as AA and Eastern League and Western League as A
They were all separate, so no playoffs. Next go round I am making a AAA,AA,A level with two sub leagues so I can have a Little World Series and All Star game at AAA and less messages in my mailbox

I had Scouting started in 1930, and if you click off Reserve Clause and change the International FAs coming into the league, they will still occur when you re-click reserve clause rules. I had 2 or 3 come in yearly. In 1950, I realized I didn't have maintain and create hidden players..clicked it and some teams found players on their own.
That came up with 2 key players, Sasuki Fakuda (2B-SS)and Anastasio Guerrero (2b)the DP combo of the league dominating Pirates of the mid to late 40's along with Durett and Kiner and Hideki Fukimoto a 1-2 duo with Hal Newshouser for the always chasing but losing WS titles to the Cards or Pirates Tiger teams of the 40's

Some of the PCL guys were released and joined the minors, later to develop and come up
Some Negro League players became dominant, Dave Barnhill,(won 30 games 3 times with over 300ks, one time 343 for the Yankees,traded to Braves, fell off and later traded to the Cards and won 27 games 10 yrs later, to end his career with the Yankees as a MR and getting one last WS title) Satchel Paige (most wins of the 40's with the Cards became the MR/spot starter/CL of the 2 time WS champs Browns in 50-51) ,Artie Wilson, George Crowell . Some flopped, Josh Gibson being the main one..he hit 20 and 30 hrs but struck out way too much and hit around .230, was later replaced by Sherm Lollar and finished his career in the PCL

Then PCL guys like Sal Taormina, Ray L. Perry, Charles Baum, Cy Swain,Buzz Arlett,and Al Olsen made splashes in MLB. Not HOFers but they had a nice 5-6 yr career

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I don't think I could play deadball with recalc on. Just too many short career players involved. I love using development and seeing guys that only played a few years get to stick around. I started my latest in 1904 and I'm now in 1912. Christy Mathewson dominated to start out, but he hit the wall at 30. Going to be interesting to see how many more years he sticks around. Walter Johnson is on a horrible Atlanta team and has had some flashes of greatness, but hasn't totally gelled yet. Rube Waddell has been the most dominant pitcher in the league Home Run Baker has strung together 3 amazing seasons, hitting a new record 19 home runs in 1911.

One thing I do with dominant pitchers is I change EVERY player that comes in the league, especially P's velocity and with Walter Johnson, his velocity was 96-97mph, that set him apart from every one else. Matthewson is 92-94, Mordecai Brown is 90-92 but with a 74 GB% and Rube Waddell (92-94)I make his work ethic and intelligence low, so he may dominate at first, but those personality traits might catch up to him OR they might not. Most pitchers I have are 86-88 mph.

I forgot my main deadball guys aside from Cobb,Speaker,Lajoie and Wagner. Sheckard was a key to the Cubs success during this time and Larry Doyle was a monster for the Giants, but only Russ Ford and Pete Alexander were surprises, the former for being the second fiddle to Walter Johnson and the 2nd for being a slightly above average P who never came close to 16 SHO in a season

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Carlton

RChW

I had the PCL as AAA non affiliated team, since I used Spritze's professional debut DB with Negro/PCL/Japanese players, usually those players I assigned to the PCL, where most stayed a majority of their careers, unless they were so dominant, I played God and had them traded to a MLB AAA team

I had the American Association, International League as AAA. Texas League and Southern Association as AA and Eastern League and Western League as A
They were all separate, so no playoffs. Next go round I am making a AAA,AA,A level with two sub leagues so I can have a Little World Series and All Star game at AAA and less messages in my mailbox

I had Scouting started in 1930, and if you click off Reserve Clause and change the International FAs coming into the league, they will still occur when you re-click reserve clause rules. I had 2 or 3 come in yearly. In 1950, I realized I didn't have maintain and create hidden players..clicked it and some teams found players on their own.
That came up with 2 key players, Sasuki Fakuda (2B-SS)and Anastasio Guerrero (2b)the DP combo of the league dominating Pirates of the mid to late 40's along with Durett and Kiner and Hideki Fukimoto a 1-2 duo with Hal Newshouser for the always chasing but losing WS titles to the Cards or Pirates Tiger teams of the 40's

Some of the PCL guys were released and joined the minors, later to develop and come up
Some Negro League players became dominant, Dave Barnhill,(won 30 games 3 times with over 300ks, one time 343 for the Yankees,traded to Braves, fell off and later traded to the Cards and won 27 games 10 yrs later, to end his career with the Yankees as a MR and getting one last WS title) Satchel Paige (most wins of the 40's with the Cards became the MR/spot starter/CL of the 2 time WS champs Browns in 50-51) ,Artie Wilson, George Crowell . Some flopped, Josh Gibson being the main one..he hit 20 and 30 hrs but struck out way too much and hit around .230, was later replaced by Sherm Lollar and finished his career in the PCL

Then PCL guys like Sal Taormina, Ray L. Perry, Charles Baum, Cy Swain,Buzz Arlett,and Al Olsen made splashes in MLB. Not HOFers but they had a nice 5-6 yr career

Thank you. I need a change and a god-mode historical may be just the ticket. If I start it now I should have all the kinks worked out by v15 release date.

[Carlton]

good luck!

I use Gambo's park files, with otb's no lights park .jpgs, Spritze's pro debut (18,19,20) DB, no pepper's uniforms (his minor league one with AA,IL,TL,SA) plus his 19th century one which I use for the minors from 1901-1910...plus I believe I have an Eastern and Western logo/uniform thread in the OOTP Mods area.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by RchW

Thank you. I need a change and a god-mode historical may be just the ticket. If I start it now I should have all the kinks worked out by v15 release date.

It's a blast. I know it's not for everyone and it's basically fictional with real players, but I think the outcomes are close enough to reality to be believable. Heck, playing this way is a lot like using the MLB quickstart, the main difference being, instead of fictional rookies you get real ones. What OOTP does with them from that point is a blast to see.

[MarkInCincy]

Every time I draft Noodles Hahn I lose him within 5-6 yrs with some kind of devastating to ratings injury if not a CEI....

When I don't he becomes the next Cy Young...

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by MarkInCincy

Every time I draft Noodles Hahn I lose him within 5-6 yrs with some kind of devastating to ratings injury if not a CEI....

When I don't he becomes the next Cy Young...

This time around I decided to use the low setting for injuries. I do have fatigue set to high. I'm only 11 seasons in, so I don't know how this is going to effect milestones such as 3000 hits.

[Carlton]

I have low setting for injuries and low for fatigue...how many players play over 145 games in your league with those settings?


Mark, in my last replay, he went from Cincy to NYY almost on script with his career, but he dominated in NYY and they dominated the 1910's-1930's in the AL and he finished 5th in career wins but the one before that, blew his arm out 3rd game of 1901

I do increase his arm injury to 200 though, so he needed a lot of luck this last time out

We should have a multi owner dynasty report comparing players between our universes!


Right now I am still plugging old 19th century/PCL players into minor league squads, fixing managers and other coaches
May be a week until I start, and then I may have the problem of schedules not generating for certain minor leagues and scrapping it again...gheesh

But I will have to see if Ed Delahanty becomes the all time hit king, will Bob Caruthers get some more W's, Bill Lange, will he be a HOFer? How about Jimmy "Pony" Ryan? Will he win the CF GG the first 3 years and be the 1st great CF to surpass and then there is Lou 'Chief' Sockelesis who I keep wanting to get on the same team with Rube Waddell organically, low IQ and work ethic duo that drink to excess

[No Pepper]

Carlton, are all your minor leagues affiliated except the PCL? You mentioned you move real life PCL players to the PCL but it sounds like they don't make the majors unless you intervene and dump them in the affiliated minors. My problem is I haven't played this game enough (or at all lately) to get this setup going and working. I'd love to have unaffiliated minors and have the Majors interact with them somehow. I've never figured out how to do that. Do you have a quickstart/template to share?

[Carlton]

No Pepper, I am working on the template...was hoping to get it ready for OOTP 15

This is my latest 'test' as it were

When I had the International League and American Assocation unaffiliated, it was either too much trading or not enough when I let them trade with other leagues and before I knew it, I had overinflated Negro and PCL players in MLB with Tris Speaker,Fred Clarke and Joe Jackson playing for AAA squads. I didn't like it.

Also, with non affiliation however, I found development too sketchy as many 18 yr olds like Gehrig, would never really develop if they were drafted or placed on real teams, and an unknown player on the Mud Hens would get development bumps.
OOTP loves the minor league system, as it's modern day baseball through and through, therefore historical simmers must use them as painful as that is...it wasn't until I hit the late 30's and started affiliating some of these teams like real life that I saw something I could live with, and had guys like cup of coffee Red Durrett become one of the best players of all time, yet Stan Musial,Ted Williams,Joe Dimaggio,Bob Feller,Warren Spahn still were great...affiliation seems key to development if using Spritze's DB.

Also with non affiliated leagues, you cannot have the Little World Series between the IL and AA. Plus, the ghost players option doesn't work since they are not minor leagues and you need to have full teams meaning fictional players may join MLB.

That is why in this go round, yes only the PCL is unaffiliated...I used the most recognized affiliate for the teams in question
(AAA) Kansas City Blues = Baltimore Orioles/NY Yankees
(AA)Chattanooga Lookouts = Washington Senators
(A) Albany Senators = Pittsburgh Pirates

I have a roster limit of 30 for AAA and AA and no limit on A, I think I may have to give a limit to A or 35 yr olds may be stuck there, not sure yet

and for the PCL, I have them on NON reserve clause financials and have 1 yr free agency with lower finances than MLB. Sometimes the team will resign the player, but sometimes MLB league minimum is a better option...or so I am hoping. Like I said, this is my test. I have to see if MLB releases get hoarded by the PCL

I do not have trading between the PCL and MLB, but like you stated I do sometimes intervene...if I have a player just dominating the PCL, I try and look to see if a team can trade. Plus, they should release players and I have a 20 man roster and 20 man reserve roster for the PCL, so the sub par players will hit FA

Sorry for the long reply, and no real answer to your question, but I usually fail in trying to truly re-enact baseball history with each new version of OOTP, so I fudge it the best I can.

[HerbD]

Every version one of the first things I do is set up a historical league with no expansion and no recalc. I sim the entire thing up to present day and then just dive into the history. It's fun to see which guys got squeezed out in the expansion era when there are just 16 spots for each position in the league. Some very good players never sniff the majors because of this.

[bwburke94]

No recalc is my preferred way to play historically.

[tayloraj]

I've played this way almost exclusively; must have had dozens and dozens of games, in search of the perfect balance between historical accuracy and 'what if?' answers. I remember some of my earlier games, before I realized how much talent change randomness had to be turned down at the risk of creating some truly bizarre outcomes (I had a game where Ron Fairly ended up being the greatest player in history by a mile, for example). I've never really understood the appeal of recalc: if you already kind of know how the players are going to perform, where's the drama?

[jaysdailydose]

I never play recalc...

But, I usually use Random Debut now. I'm with RchW, I look at it like "If I'm trying to do a new history of baseball, why do I want to take the time to replay the one we've already seen?"

I can totally see altering the TCR, but I *never* play recalc.