Free Agent Contracts

RandyTiger · 10-31-2009, 11:28 AM

To summarize: Is there a way to see what other teams are offering a FA?

Specifics: there's a FA reliever I have my eye on, he's only 24 and I think he'll develop into a very good pitcher once he hits his peak. He's asking for 1.24m for 1 year, but I offered 2m for 1 year (that's how good I think he'll be), just to "try him out" in AAA ball and see how he progresses before I offer him a longer-term contact.

A few sim-days later, I received a message: he likes the offer, but another team has made a better offer, and he gave me the chance to match it.

For the life of me, I cannot even figure out where to find what the other team is offering! I've checked every single place I can think of, but no dice. I'm starting to suspect there isn't a way to determine that info, but I'd like it verified.

It's driving me up the wall, to say the least. How the heck can you bid for someone if you don't know the last asking price? It's not a silent auction, for pity's sake...

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I dislike groping around in the dark (as much fun as that can be sometimes

), and this aspect is irritating me to no end.

kq76 · 10-31-2009, 11:36 AM

AFAIK, you can't.

I think a great option would be to have it like an auction. You set your start price and your max price, the AI does the same, and then it figures out who gets the guy with allowing the player to actually take less by factoring in how much other stuff matters to the player like a winning team, etc.

RandyTiger · 10-31-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

AFAIK, you can't.

I think a great option would be to have it like an auction. You set your start price and your max price, the AI does the same, and then it figures out who gets the guy with allowing the player to actually take less by factoring in how much other stuff matters to the player like a winning team, etc.

I was afraid of that.

I agree it would be a great option, and would be closer in reality with real-life contractual issues. I keep seeing news "stories" in my in-game email box saying "San Diego has won the sweepstakes...". Erm. What sweepstakes? I was bidding on the same player and obviously lost. *grumbles*

Thank you very much for the quick response, kq76. Much obliged!

Flying Dutchmen · 10-31-2009, 12:22 PM

I don't know the exact specifics of what triggers this (or even if there are any), but there have definitely been times where I have received messages that do state what another team has offered as a way to encourage me to make a similar or better offer. As I recall, they tended to be situations in which the player definitely wanted to resign with my team (i.e. I received a message requesting an extension before they hit free agency). Other people may have seen this in other situations though.

One thing you might do though is to look at what the player is asking for. Often times this will change over free agency, presumably in connection to offers received from other teams. This is different than the general trend of declining demands as free agency moves into the preseason and spring training; the demands actually go up in this case. In general though, you rarely need to add more than a few hundred thousand (in the modern era) per year to become the preferred offer again.

RandyTiger · 10-31-2009, 12:29 PM

It's still reading at 1.24mill, so I went up to 2.5mill over one year. Hopefully, that'll be enough bait, and he'll prove to be an asset rather than a clunker. Even then, that's pretty much chump change in the overall scheme of things.

Wish someone would come up with a decent utility app that helps figure this stuff out (personality factors, ratings, etc), and gives you some insight as to what other teams are offering.

jmknpk2 · 11-12-2009, 09:59 AM

Also pay attention to the wording of the email that says another team has a better offer. I don't remember the exact words, but there are different versions that give you a clue as to how much more the other team is offering.

For example:
X team offers a decent amount more
X team has a better offer
X team offers a bit more....

Don't be afraid to edge up slowly rather than take big leaps. Usually I can be persistent and just gradually out bid the opponents a little bit at a time...eventually signing the player. Occasionally one will get away. But usually you will get a message like "I'm insulted by that offer" or "You better hike up your offer if you are serious" or the like before he gets away.

Oh, and as far as their asking price, I always begin by bidding less than their asking price and work my way up. After the initial offer though, you might as well ignore their asking price because it doesn't change to reflect the bidding war. Some players have a low asking price but eventually get a lot larger contract. Others will sign for less than they are asking on the first offer.

SMFXR01 · 11-12-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchmen

I don't know the exact specifics of what triggers this (or even if there are any), but there have definitely been times where I have received messages that do state what another team has offered as a way to encourage me to make a similar or better offer. As I recall, they tended to be situations in which the player definitely wanted to resign with my team (i.e. I received a message requesting an extension before they hit free agency). Other people may have seen this in other situations though.

I have seen this in Free Agency...and like you say, it is as though the player would be more than happy to play for you, if you can match/better the existing offer.

Bluenoser · 11-12-2009, 02:48 PM

Do GM's IRL tell other GM's what they're offering an FA? No.....nor should you be allowed to see it in game. What's to stop someone from upping the AI's bid by $1? Seems like a pretty uneven playing field to me.

Having said that, if you want to know what other teams are bidding, go into Commish mode, take control of the other bidding team and then go to the managers page and look at the pending offers. You'll see exactly what said team offered.

To each his own, but imo it's a cheap way to beat the AI.

kq76 · 11-12-2009, 03:44 PM

EDIT: Want to test something. Maybe it's just something from old versions...

Back to the general topic...

It should maybe be noted that the dynamics of signing a player in an online league are a fair bit different. If you have a good idea that someone else is bidding on a player and he's a good enough player, you probably best not offer less than what he's asking. If you think he'll really be sought after, you best just offer him close to as high as you'll go asap. And if you're leading after a sim with a player like that you better be ready to up your offer even more from your leading offer because you know another team is probably going to want to better that offer of yours. As a result of all this, (in a cap league at least) I really don't like bidding on players I think are highly sought after because chances are you'll end up over-paying if you do end up getting him. I recommend looking for those players who might not be as good, but will likely be worth what you pay for them.

jmknpk2 · 11-13-2009, 08:13 PM

My earlier post was regarding solo leagues. If you're in an on-line league against other humans, you're strategy needs to change as Kq76 notes.

I usually sort my free agent targets into categories:
a) mediocre player, but would love to have him at basement bargain prices. Offer less than he's asksing, but the most I'd pay right from the outset. A lot of these guys are hit or miss. They either sign right away with me or go with someone else. Seems like they are just glad to play. If they don't like my offer, let them go. I usually target several in this class.
b) Superstar player. If I have extra free agent budget room, I might offer 80% of what I'd be willing to sign him for (probably significant amount above his asking price) and then edge up if necessary.
c) Good solid player and I want to pay him what he's worth. Start out with the highest bid I'd be willing to go. I think he's worth that money. If he bites, great, if he doesn't or someone offers him more, I'm already over the limit of what I thought he's worth, so let him go.

Timeless · 11-14-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

Do GM's IRL tell other GM's what they're offering an FA? No.....nor should you be allowed to see it in game. What's to stop someone from upping the AI's bid by $1? Seems like a pretty uneven playing field to me.

Having said that, if you want to know what other teams are bidding, go into Commish mode, take control of the other bidding team and then go to the managers page and look at the pending offers. You'll see exactly what said team offered.

To each his own, but imo it's a cheap way to beat the AI.

I don't think you should be able to actually know the exact offer, but of course in the winter we read all sorts of rumors about what another team "might" be offering. Some are leaks, some are floated by agents to make an interested team believe there are others interested when in reality no one else is bidding at all.

RandyTiger · 11-14-2009, 10:18 AM

I've given up on big free agency for the most part, both as a result of in-game experiences and from what I've read in answer to my OP.

I prefer homegrown talent anyways, but when I do go into FA, for the price of one big-bucks guy, you can usually find two or three average guys who'll get the job done.

I'd rather have a couple of dudes hitting .275, 15 HR, 60 ribbies each platooning than one .300-40-140 guy. And at half the cost, or less. Call me cheap, but I don't see the point in overpaying aging veterans when you can get someone else to do the job for cheaper.

The way the game is coded, you can easily get solid pitchers via your farm system, which eliminates the need for FA pitchers, as far as I'm concerned.

bk2bkjks · 11-17-2009, 10:05 PM

GM's don't talk to each other about what they offer to a free agent both teams are pursueing but I am sure the players agent would tell the other team about how much the other team is offering. Although since I am not a real GM or player agent it's just a guess.

Rahhja · 11-28-2009, 01:04 PM

It always seemed to me when I was outbid on a FA that the other team offered more years rather then more dollars. You may have offered a 1 year 2mil contract but he has a 2 year 3 mil contract on the table. Sometimes the email will say he wants more years and sometimes it doesn't.

10-31-2009, 11:28 AM	#1
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	Free Agent Contracts To summarize: Is there a way to see what other teams are offering a FA? Specifics: there's a FA reliever I have my eye on, he's only 24 and I think he'll develop into a very good pitcher once he hits his peak. He's asking for 1.24m for 1 year, but I offered 2m for 1 year (that's how good I think he'll be), just to "try him out" in AAA ball and see how he progresses before I offer him a longer-term contact. A few sim-days later, I received a message: he likes the offer, but another team has made a better offer, and he gave me the chance to match it. For the life of me, I cannot even figure out where to find what the other team is offering! I've checked every single place I can think of, but no dice. I'm starting to suspect there isn't a way to determine that info, but I'd like it verified. It's driving me up the wall, to say the least. How the heck can you bid for someone if you don't know the last asking price? It's not a silent auction, for pity's sake... Any help would be greatly appreciated. I dislike groping around in the dark (as much fun as that can be sometimes ), and this aspect is irritating me to no end.

10-31-2009, 11:36 AM	#2
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,015	AFAIK, you can't. I think a great option would be to have it like an auction. You set your start price and your max price, the AI does the same, and then it figures out who gets the guy with allowing the player to actually take less by factoring in how much other stuff matters to the player like a winning team, etc. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

11-12-2009, 09:59 AM	#6
jmknpk2 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 982	Also pay attention to the wording of the email that says another team has a better offer. I don't remember the exact words, but there are different versions that give you a clue as to how much more the other team is offering. For example: X team offers a decent amount more X team has a better offer X team offers a bit more.... Don't be afraid to edge up slowly rather than take big leaps. Usually I can be persistent and just gradually out bid the opponents a little bit at a time...eventually signing the player. Occasionally one will get away. But usually you will get a message like "I'm insulted by that offer" or "You better hike up your offer if you are serious" or the like before he gets away. Oh, and as far as their asking price, I always begin by bidding less than their asking price and work my way up. After the initial offer though, you might as well ignore their asking price because it doesn't change to reflect the bidding war. Some players have a low asking price but eventually get a lot larger contract. Others will sign for less than they are asking on the first offer. Last edited by jmknpk2; 11-13-2009 at 08:03 PM.

11-12-2009, 03:44 PM	#9
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,015	EDIT: Want to test something. Maybe it's just something from old versions... Back to the general topic... It should maybe be noted that the dynamics of signing a player in an online league are a fair bit different. If you have a good idea that someone else is bidding on a player and he's a good enough player, you probably best not offer less than what he's asking. If you think he'll really be sought after, you best just offer him close to as high as you'll go asap. And if you're leading after a sim with a player like that you better be ready to up your offer even more from your leading offer because you know another team is probably going to want to better that offer of yours. As a result of all this, (in a cap league at least) I really don't like bidding on players I think are highly sought after because chances are you'll end up over-paying if you do end up getting him. I recommend looking for those players who might not be as good, but will likely be worth what you pay for them. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080) Last edited by kq76; 11-12-2009 at 03:57 PM.

10-31-2009, 12:22 PM	#4
Flying Dutchmen Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 213	I don't know the exact specifics of what triggers this (or even if there are any), but there have definitely been times where I have received messages that do state what another team has offered as a way to encourage me to make a similar or better offer. As I recall, they tended to be situations in which the player definitely wanted to resign with my team (i.e. I received a message requesting an extension before they hit free agency). Other people may have seen this in other situations though. One thing you might do though is to look at what the player is asking for. Often times this will change over free agency, presumably in connection to offers received from other teams. This is different than the general trend of declining demands as free agency moves into the preseason and spring training; the demands actually go up in this case. In general though, you rarely need to add more than a few hundred thousand (in the modern era) per year to become the preferred offer again.

10-31-2009, 12:29 PM	#5
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	It's still reading at 1.24mill, so I went up to 2.5mill over one year. Hopefully, that'll be enough bait, and he'll prove to be an asset rather than a clunker. Even then, that's pretty much chump change in the overall scheme of things. Wish someone would come up with a decent utility app that helps figure this stuff out (personality factors, ratings, etc), and gives you some insight as to what other teams are offering.

11-12-2009, 02:48 PM	#8
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,481	Do GM's IRL tell other GM's what they're offering an FA? No.....nor should you be allowed to see it in game. What's to stop someone from upping the AI's bid by $1? Seems like a pretty uneven playing field to me. Having said that, if you want to know what other teams are bidding, go into Commish mode, take control of the other bidding team and then go to the managers page and look at the pending offers. You'll see exactly what said team offered. To each his own, but imo it's a cheap way to beat the AI.

11-13-2009, 08:13 PM	#10
jmknpk2 All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 982	My earlier post was regarding solo leagues. If you're in an on-line league against other humans, you're strategy needs to change as Kq76 notes. I usually sort my free agent targets into categories: a) mediocre player, but would love to have him at basement bargain prices. Offer less than he's asksing, but the most I'd pay right from the outset. A lot of these guys are hit or miss. They either sign right away with me or go with someone else. Seems like they are just glad to play. If they don't like my offer, let them go. I usually target several in this class. b) Superstar player. If I have extra free agent budget room, I might offer 80% of what I'd be willing to sign him for (probably significant amount above his asking price) and then edge up if necessary. c) Good solid player and I want to pay him what he's worth. Start out with the highest bid I'd be willing to go. I think he's worth that money. If he bites, great, if he doesn't or someone offers him more, I'm already over the limit of what I thought he's worth, so let him go.

11-14-2009, 10:18 AM	#12
RandyTiger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,510	I've given up on big free agency for the most part, both as a result of in-game experiences and from what I've read in answer to my OP. I prefer homegrown talent anyways, but when I do go into FA, for the price of one big-bucks guy, you can usually find two or three average guys who'll get the job done. I'd rather have a couple of dudes hitting .275, 15 HR, 60 ribbies each platooning than one .300-40-140 guy. And at half the cost, or less. Call me cheap, but I don't see the point in overpaying aging veterans when you can get someone else to do the job for cheaper. The way the game is coded, you can easily get solid pitchers via your farm system, which eliminates the need for FA pitchers, as far as I'm concerned.

11-17-2009, 10:05 PM	#13
bk2bkjks Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 91	GM's don't talk to each other about what they offer to a free agent both teams are pursueing but I am sure the players agent would tell the other team about how much the other team is offering. Although since I am not a real GM or player agent it's just a guess.

11-28-2009, 01:04 PM	#14
Rahhja Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Winthrop, MA Posts: 54	It always seemed to me when I was outbid on a FA that the other team offered more years rather then more dollars. You may have offered a 1 year 2mil contract but he has a 2 year 3 mil contract on the table. Sometimes the email will say he wants more years and sometimes it doesn't.