The Designated Hitter debate

mikev · 10-03-2006, 11:05 AM

The DH is a good thing, and everybody who likes the idea of pitchers hitting is wrong.

Thank you.

(This post specifically created for JDOldSchool and ukhotstove)

Raidergoo · 10-03-2006, 11:14 AM

The DH is one of the Seven Signs of the Coming of the Apocalypse.

Rebuking it will stay God's wrath.

JDOldSchool · 10-03-2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikev

The DH is a good thing, and everybody who likes the idea of pitchers hitting is wrong.

In Major League Baseball, yes. I'm not advocating a DH in little league or anything where the pitchers are usually the best players.

If pitchers could hit, and 99% can not, then they should. But since they can't all it does is make the NL game inferior. We don't make quarterbacks play safety. Why make pitchers hit? Because that's how baseball "is supposed to be"? Well, Major League Baseball wasn't supposed to have blacks playing, either.

And yes, I realize that's a tremendous stretch, but I could cite the myriad rule changes that were made in the late-1800s/early 1900s that nobody seems to wish came back. I'm not sure why pitchers hitting is special and those aren't.

mikev · 10-03-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

In Major League Baseball, yes. I'm not advocating a DH in little league or anything where the pitchers are usually the best players.

If pitchers could hit, and 99% can not, then they should. But since they can't all it does is make the NL game inferior. We don't make quarterbacks play safety. Why make pitchers hit? Because that's how baseball "is supposed to be"? Well, Major League Baseball wasn't supposed to have blacks playing, either.

And yes, I realize that's a tremendous stretch, but I could cite the myriad rule changes that were made in the late-1800s/early 1900s that nobody seems to wish came back. I'm not sure why pitchers hitting is special and those aren't.

I was only talking about MLB, and I agree with you. I think it's ridiculous to watch pitchers try to hit. Dontrelle Willis, who is a "good" hitting pitcher, has a career .591 OPS.

ukhotstove · 10-03-2006, 11:36 AM

Having no DH makes the managers job an actual job that needs brains, with a DH the managers job is way easier. Also the biggest quote for a DH is that pitchers can't hit well doh! DH's can't field or else they wouldn't be DH's, also early days but looks like the no DH is winning

billethius · 10-03-2006, 11:47 AM

As someone who got to enjoy watching Edgar Martinez hit long after his hamstrings were destroyed while playing 3rd base, I feel that I have to vote for the DH being a good thing.

imation · 10-03-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Having no DH makes the managers job an actual job that needs brains, with a DH the managers job is way easier. Also the biggest quote for a DH is that pitchers can't hit well doh! DH's can't field or else they wouldn't be DH's, also early days but looks like the no DH is winning

Well then lets take away the bullpen phone, all advanced scouting techniques and anything else that has made the manager job easier.

billethius · 10-03-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Having no DH makes the managers job an actual job that needs brains, with a DH the managers job is way easier. Also the biggest quote for a DH is that pitchers can't hit well doh! DH's can't field or else they wouldn't be DH's, also early days but looks like the no DH is winning

That's not always true. Raul Ibanez was the DH here in Seattle last year because there were 3 guys in the OF who were better defensively than him. But he was back out in left this year, and while not a good defensive player he's not killing the team with his glove either.

Along the same lines, after the M's released Carl Everett this year they rotated the DH among several different players to give them a day off of playing the field. I'd imagine there are more teams out there that do something similar.

Melo · 10-03-2006, 11:55 AM

The DH was instituted by the AL for one reason: The AL was inferior to the NL at the time and AL attendance was lagging behind NL attendance. The DH was a gimmick used to draw interest to the AL and put fannies in the seats.

I can't stand the DH but I am resigned to the fact that the NL will eventually adopt it.

ukhotstove · 10-03-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imation

Well then lets take away the bullpen phone, all advanced scouting techniques and anything else that has made the manager job easier.

Dumb reply

kq76 · 10-03-2006, 12:01 PM

This poll should have been public... so I could put on ignore all those who like the DH.

Tom the Fish · 10-03-2006, 12:01 PM

"It robbed the game of its strategic possibilities in the late innings and turned every pitcher in the league into half a ballplayer. Once Finley got that abberation in place, he tried to sell baseball on the idea of the three-ball walk as another way to perk up scoring. I wondered why they just didn't get rid of pitchers altogether. They could have just put the ball up on a tee and let the batters swing away to their hearts' content... For years I've been called the rebel. Well, I'm not. It's guys like Finley who are the rebels. I'm a baseball traditionalist... I hated the DH and all the other new wrinkles that had been introduced in an attempt to corrupt the game..."

Bill Lee, The Wrong Stuff

imation · 10-03-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Dumb reply

Dumb response because your reason for not having the DH was even dumber.

ukhotstove · 10-03-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billethius

That's not always true. Raul Ibanez was the DH here in Seattle last year because there were 3 guys in the OF who were better defensively than him. But he was back out in left this year, and while not a good defensive player he's not killing the team with his glove either.

Along the same lines, after the M's released Carl Everett this year they rotated the DH among several different players to give them a day off of playing the field. I'd imagine there are more teams out there that do something similar.

As with a quote above for pitchers not hitting that 99% can't then it stands to reason that a high % of DH can't field, probably someone will know but I'd like to see how many games a recognised DH actually gets to field not counting inter league.

ukhotstove · 10-03-2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imation

Dumb response because your reason for not having the DH was even dumber.

What's dumb about knowing that the NL the none DH league as probably the greater managers tactical wise managing in it, part from Dusty Baker that is, oh by the way what was your reason for having the DH I missed it hmm chicks dig the long ball ?

imation · 10-03-2006, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

What's dumb about knowing that the NL the none DH league as probably the greater managers tactical wise managing in it, part from Dusty Baker that is, oh by the way what was your reason for having the DH I missed it hmm chicks dig the long ball ?

The reason is quite simple. Pitchers can't hit. That makes it easier for NL managers if you ask me. Hmm, should we pitch to this number 8 hitter or walk him and pitch to the pitcher. Sounds like an easy choice for me. The only way it makes tatics any easier is with double switching. Which is something that needs to go away any way. It is an unneccesary head ache that has been solved by the American League.

CBL-Commish · 10-03-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

"It robbed the game of its straegic possibilities in the late innings and turned every pitcher in the league into half a ballplayer.

Yea, but before the DH pitchers were only 52% of a ballplayer.

I never understood how hitting .089 with 44 Ks in 56 at bats made you a more complete player.

Most of the "straegic possibilities" that were eliminated were of the form: "Losing by two runs, .109 hitter coming up... yea... you know... I guess I'll pinch hit."

blgoblue2 · 10-03-2006, 04:35 PM

baseball is a 9-man game

abailey3313 · 10-03-2006, 04:37 PM

I like the DH if for no other reason than it differenciates the two leagues.

Le Grande Orange · 10-03-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melo

The DH was instituted by the AL for one reason: The AL was inferior to the NL at the time and AL attendance was lagging behind NL attendance. The DH was a gimmick used to draw interest to the AL and put fannies in the seats.

The irony there is the DH was first proposed as early as the 1920s, and in that case it was favoured by the NL and rejected by the AL.

View Poll Results: Is the DH a good idea?
Yes. Pitchers hitting is stupid.	31	44.29%
No. Play the field if you're gonna hit, you sissy.	39	55.71%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

10-03-2006, 11:05 AM	#1
mikev Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 4,014	The Designated Hitter debate The DH is a good thing, and everybody who likes the idea of pitchers hitting is wrong. Thank you. (This post specifically created for JDOldSchool and ukhotstove) __________________ Global Unified Baseball Association - Vice Commish and Oakland Oaks GM Last edited by mikev; 10-03-2006 at 11:07 AM.

10-03-2006, 11:36 AM	#5
ukhotstove Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North of England Gods Country Posts: 7,175	Having no DH makes the managers job an actual job that needs brains, with a DH the managers job is way easier. Also the biggest quote for a DH is that pitchers can't hit well doh! DH's can't field or else they wouldn't be DH's, also early days but looks like the no DH is winning __________________ Detroit Diesel Dynasty San Antonio Calzones of Laredo Dynasty

10-03-2006, 12:01 PM	#11
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 12,006	This poll should have been public... so I could put on ignore all those who like the DH. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

10-03-2006, 12:01 PM	#12
Tom the Fish All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Jingu Stadium Posts: 510	"It robbed the game of its strategic possibilities in the late innings and turned every pitcher in the league into half a ballplayer. Once Finley got that abberation in place, he tried to sell baseball on the idea of the three-ball walk as another way to perk up scoring. I wondered why they just didn't get rid of pitchers altogether. They could have just put the ball up on a tee and let the batters swing away to their hearts' content... For years I've been called the rebel. Well, I'm not. It's guys like Finley who are the rebels. I'm a baseball traditionalist... I hated the DH and all the other new wrinkles that had been introduced in an attempt to corrupt the game..." Bill Lee, The Wrong Stuff __________________ "Any talk of rebelliousness has to begin with one's profound appreciation and understanding of tradition." - Lu Shoukun Last edited by Tom the Fish; 10-03-2006 at 12:12 PM.

10-03-2006, 11:14 AM	#2
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 9,005	The DH is one of the Seven Signs of the Coming of the Apocalypse. Rebuking it will stay God's wrath.

10-03-2006, 11:47 AM	#6
billethius All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 822	As someone who got to enjoy watching Edgar Martinez hit long after his hamstrings were destroyed while playing 3rd base, I feel that I have to vote for the DH being a good thing.

10-03-2006, 11:55 AM	#9
Melo All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Where the baned reside Posts: 1,428	The DH was instituted by the AL for one reason: The AL was inferior to the NL at the time and AL attendance was lagging behind NL attendance. The DH was a gimmick used to draw interest to the AL and put fannies in the seats. I can't stand the DH but I am resigned to the fact that the NL will eventually adopt it.

10-03-2006, 04:35 PM	#18
blgoblue2 Banned Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Walled Lake, Michigan Member #13775 Posts: 886	baseball is a 9-man game

10-03-2006, 04:37 PM	#19
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	I like the DH if for no other reason than it differenciates the two leagues. __________________