Questions About Ratings

atlbraves · 10-18-2005, 07:56 PM

What does Control, Movement, and Stuff really signify? Do they all have equal values to a pitcher, ones more important than another or they all have different parts? Does Control mean how many walks they give up, Stuff meaning how many they strike out, and Movement something lol?

And what does Contact, Gap, Power, Avoid K's, and Dispicline mean?

I probably know what contact and power means but I don't really know Gap, Avoid K's and Dispicline really emphaizes. Does Gap mean how many extra base hits they can get?

Thanks...

Bluenoser · 10-18-2005, 08:16 PM

In simple terms:

Stuff = K's plus prevent hits

Control = Prevent BB's

Movement = Prevent HR's

Contact = Ability to make contact with the ball. The higher the contact the higher the batting Avg, generally speaking. (Not a guarantee of course, even good hitters have slumps/bad seasons)

Gap = Ability to get extra base hits

Power = Self explanatory

Eye = Ability to get BB's

Avoid K's = Self explanatory

battists · 10-19-2005, 12:06 AM

Strictly speaking, gap is doubles and triples, and power is HRs. But yeah, what he said.

molarmite · 10-19-2005, 06:24 PM

When you're looking at pitchers, pure stuff is key. I had a pitcher with 205 pure stuff and he averaged over 600 K's per year.

battists · 10-19-2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

When you're looking at pitchers, pure stuff is key. I had a pitcher with 205 pure stuff and he averaged over 600 K's per year.

Don't expect to see many of those.

I've simmed about 8 seasons in my current league so far, and have only seen 1 player with 130 stuff

Of course, it highly depends on your settings for player creation.

atlbraves · 10-20-2005, 07:40 PM

Are some rating categories more important then other or they all play the same role? Like is Contact more important than Gap when looking at a player?

molarmite · 10-20-2005, 07:57 PM

I just told you that pure stuff is most important for pitchers and for hitters it depends on what you're looking for. Contact and Power are the 2 most important.

kq76 · 10-20-2005, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlbraves

Are some rating categories more important then other or they all play the same role? Like is Contact more important than Gap when looking at a player?

It really depends on your league settings. For example, if you have few home runs in your league then movement by pitchers won't do much. OTOH, if you have many home runs in your league then movement will mean a great deal. If you really want to know, you can do a regression analysis of your league. Just because something works well in one league does not necessarily mean it will in another.

molarmite · 10-20-2005, 08:29 PM

But still, having great pure stuff is essential to every league.

Bluenoser · 10-20-2005, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

But still, having great pure stuff is essential to every league.

No more essential than having great control and movement.

I've had success with pitchers who've been very good at either of the three. Like Kq says, there are a lot of things it will depend upon.

molarmite · 10-20-2005, 08:55 PM

Ya but you have to admit that pure stuff is the most important when you look at pitchers ratings.

statfreak · 10-20-2005, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

Ya but you have to admit that pure stuff is the most important when you look at pitchers ratings.

no, I always go for high control & movement over stuff.

Stuff is overrated...

battists · 10-20-2005, 09:17 PM

I'm not sure that stuff is "overrated," but I do agree with others here that stuff is not the most important. It's clearly the "Sexiest" of the three, but they all have different results.

Way back, perhaps this was lost in the Great Crash of '05, but someone did a statistical analysis of three pitchers over multiple seasons. Their ratings were 100-50-50, 50-100-50, and 50-50-100. The results were vastly different. I don't remember it precisely, but it was similar to what's been discussed here.

The one with the high stuff had tons of Ks, but a moderate amount of walks and the highest era of the three. The one with high control had very low walks, moderate homeruns, low strikeouts, and I think the middle ERA. The one with the high movement had the lowest era and homeruns, but average walks and Ks. Something like that, anyway.

battists · 10-20-2005, 09:18 PM

Incidentally, to me Contact is the most important for a hitter. If the hitter has no contact, then they aren't going to be worth having in the bigs. Whenever possible, I try to have all of my major leaguers with at least 60 in contact. Of course, this depends on your league settings.

RchW · 10-20-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

When you're looking at pitchers, pure stuff is key. I had a pitcher with 205 pure stuff and he averaged over 600 K's per year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by statfreak

no, I always go for high control & movement over stuff.

Stuff is overrated...

Stuff is important, but 205 stuff and 600k/season is so far off normalcy that I would question the league set up. For me something close to 1980's to now is what I strive for because then the stats are believable and 300k is an accomplishment.

I avoid unbalanced pitchers with high stuff, they are rarely succesful, however if you have good defense a 50-70-70 guy can be decent.

kq76 · 10-20-2005, 10:08 PM

Another thing to take into consideration is how your league values ratings. Say control and discipline really are quite important for your league. But say those in the league have realized this and also value these ratings highly. What if they value them too highly and the contracts for these players really don't match the value well anymore. Or say most in the league draft players with these ratings highly while overlooking players that might not have good control or discipline but are overall better. In these cases, it might be time to consider valuing other ratings higher. It's like the stock market in a way. If everyone realizes Google is a great deal then eventually the price will rise to a point where it's no longer a better deal than something else that you can buy at a cheaper price.

molarmite · 10-20-2005, 10:29 PM

Ya that one guy who had 205 stuff (who I didn't edit and has been the only guy above 125 stuff so its pretty rare) even though he had 600K's for 5+ years his win-loss ratio wasn't that great.

RchW · 10-20-2005, 10:35 PM

Likely because he had men on base when he didn't happen to K the batter

bp_ · 10-23-2005, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kq76

Another thing to take into consideration is how your league values ratings. Say control and discipline really are quite important for your league. But say those in the league have realized this and also value these ratings highly. What if they value them too highly and the contracts for these players really don't match the value well anymore. Or say most in the league draft players with these ratings highly while overlooking players that might not have good control or discipline but are overall better. In these cases, it might be time to consider valuing other ratings higher. It's like the stock market in a way. If everyone realizes Google is a great deal then eventually the price will rise to a point where it's no longer a better deal than something else that you can buy at a cheaper price.

this is a good point...

10-18-2005, 07:56 PM	#1
atlbraves Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 315	Questions About Ratings What does Control, Movement, and Stuff really signify? Do they all have equal values to a pitcher, ones more important than another or they all have different parts? Does Control mean how many walks they give up, Stuff meaning how many they strike out, and Movement something lol? And what does Contact, Gap, Power, Avoid K's, and Dispicline mean? I probably know what contact and power means but I don't really know Gap, Avoid K's and Dispicline really emphaizes. Does Gap mean how many extra base hits they can get? Thanks...

10-20-2005, 10:08 PM	#16
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 11,937	Another thing to take into consideration is how your league values ratings. Say control and discipline really are quite important for your league. But say those in the league have realized this and also value these ratings highly. What if they value them too highly and the contracts for these players really don't match the value well anymore. Or say most in the league draft players with these ratings highly while overlooking players that might not have good control or discipline but are overall better. In these cases, it might be time to consider valuing other ratings higher. It's like the stock market in a way. If everyone realizes Google is a great deal then eventually the price will rise to a point where it's no longer a better deal than something else that you can buy at a cheaper price. __________________ My OOTP Wishlist \| My FAQ List OOTP Wiki \| Your Recommended Team Nicknames, By City (A Crowdsourced Project) For Beta/Devs: Full screen (1920x1080)

10-20-2005, 10:35 PM	#18
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Likely because he had men on base when he didn't happen to K the batter __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

10-18-2005, 08:16 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,362	In simple terms: Stuff = K's plus prevent hits Control = Prevent BB's Movement = Prevent HR's Contact = Ability to make contact with the ball. The higher the contact the higher the batting Avg, generally speaking. (Not a guarantee of course, even good hitters have slumps/bad seasons) Gap = Ability to get extra base hits Power = Self explanatory Eye = Ability to get BB's Avoid K's = Self explanatory

10-19-2005, 12:06 AM	#3
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Strictly speaking, gap is doubles and triples, and power is HRs. But yeah, what he said.

10-19-2005, 06:24 PM	#4
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,924	When you're looking at pitchers, pure stuff is key. I had a pitcher with 205 pure stuff and he averaged over 600 K's per year.

10-20-2005, 07:40 PM	#6
atlbraves Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 315	Are some rating categories more important then other or they all play the same role? Like is Contact more important than Gap when looking at a player?

10-20-2005, 07:57 PM	#7
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,924	I just told you that pure stuff is most important for pitchers and for hitters it depends on what you're looking for. Contact and Power are the 2 most important.

10-20-2005, 08:29 PM	#9
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,924	But still, having great pure stuff is essential to every league.

10-20-2005, 08:55 PM	#11
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,924	Ya but you have to admit that pure stuff is the most important when you look at pitchers ratings.

10-20-2005, 09:17 PM	#13
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	I'm not sure that stuff is "overrated," but I do agree with others here that stuff is not the most important. It's clearly the "Sexiest" of the three, but they all have different results. Way back, perhaps this was lost in the Great Crash of '05, but someone did a statistical analysis of three pitchers over multiple seasons. Their ratings were 100-50-50, 50-100-50, and 50-50-100. The results were vastly different. I don't remember it precisely, but it was similar to what's been discussed here. The one with the high stuff had tons of Ks, but a moderate amount of walks and the highest era of the three. The one with high control had very low walks, moderate homeruns, low strikeouts, and I think the middle ERA. The one with the high movement had the lowest era and homeruns, but average walks and Ks. Something like that, anyway.

10-20-2005, 09:18 PM	#14
battists Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 18,506	Incidentally, to me Contact is the most important for a hitter. If the hitter has no contact, then they aren't going to be worth having in the bigs. Whenever possible, I try to have all of my major leaguers with at least 60 in contact. Of course, this depends on your league settings.

10-20-2005, 10:29 PM	#17
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,924	Ya that one guy who had 205 stuff (who I didn't edit and has been the only guy above 125 stuff so its pretty rare) even though he had 600K's for 5+ years his win-loss ratio wasn't that great.