[kq76]

Originally posted by Skipaway
Never fall into hypes created by talks. You know how many teams got lower PAPIP numbers than the Jays last year? 14. The Jays are pretty middle of the road when it comes to pitch counts.

It does not matter if the Jays are middle of the road. That could just mean they are not the worst at this. Now if someone showed me variation data to show that the Jays don't use pitch counts, then I'll concede that they don't, but I'll still argue that they're pulling them too early.

And I think you failed to realize that even with Mazzone's great eyes, he never let his pitcher go above 131 in the past three years!!!! And only 12 times above 121!!! What you said about "somedays 130" is pretty much baseless and meaningless.

Arguing with you is so frustrating sometimes as you don't seem to get the point and/or base yours on things that don't matter (e.g. averages without variation data). The point is not the specific numbers I provided, but the whole idea that pulling a pitcher should depend on the entire situation, not just the pitch count.

Nevermind. If you want to believe that pitchers should be pulled at some magical # no matter what else, go ahead and believe that. I've had enough.