The InteGREATed Mod: Stars of the Negro Leagues in the MLB

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by thehef

Just curious re this part in the manual:

• Enable Amateur Draft: CHECKED
▪ If you disable the amateur draft, the game will send players to their historical teams as the years go by. In this case, you are going to have the NeL teams without any players at all (or very soon).

So if the Amateur Draft is unchecked, MLB players would import to their historical teams and the NeL players would import as free agents. Correct?

So, if you start a game in, say, 1901 and players come in every year to their historic team (no amateur draft). You will get the Expansion draft entering 1911 so the four NeL teams will get some players. Then as time passes, they are left to the FA market to get players. Every other team is getting stocked as historical players go to their historic teams. In this circumstance, the NeL players will come in as FA as their stat lines are not tied to any of the four teams.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

So, if you start a game in, say, 1901 and players come in every year to their historic team (no amateur draft). You will get the Expansion draft entering 1911 so the four NeL teams will get some players. Then as time passes, they are left to the FA market to get players. Every other team is getting stocked as historical players go to their historic teams. In this circumstance, the NeL players will come in as FA as their stat lines are not tied to any of the four teams.

Got it. I'm just wondering about playing with the draft option off but manually intervening to mostly stock the 4 new teams with NeL players so they retain the flavor of NeL teams. Like maybe keep the biggest NeL stars on the 4 NeL teams, but not concern myself with the who (what color) the rest of players are on those 4 teams, and also not be concerned with non-top-tier NeLers ending up on the original 16 teams... I dunno, just kicking it around...

[Garlon]

If we want to create custom interleague mods for the 19th century, we would need these types of schedules for OOTP to acknowledge them automatically:

1. 4 teams, 32 games, (2S/1D/2T) interleague. This could be 16 games (8H/8A) against the other team in the same subleague, and 8 games (4H/4A) vs each of the two teams in the other league. 16 + 8 + 8 = 32


2. 4 teams, 60 games, (2S/1D/2T) interleague. This could be 36 games (18H/18A) against the other team in the same subleague, and 12 games (6H/6A) vs each of the two teams in the other league. 36 + 12 + 12 = 60

Or we could just have each team play the other three teams 20 games (10H/10A)


3. 4 teams, 96 games, (2S/1D/2T) interleague. This could be 48 games (24H/24A) against the other team in the same subleague, and 24 games (12H/12A) vs each of the other two teams in the other league. 48 + 24 + 24 = 96

Or we could just have each team play the other three teams 32 games (16H/16A)


4. 8 teams, 96 games, (2S/1D/4T) interleague. This could be 16 games (8H/8A) against the other three teams in the same subleague, and 12 games (6H/6A) vs each of the four teams in the other league. 16 +16+ 16 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 = 96


5. 12 teams, 112 games, (2S/1D/6T) interleague. This could be 14 games (7H/7A) against the five teams in the same subleague, and 7 games (3H/4A) or (4H/3A) vs each of the six teams in the other league. 14 + 14 + 14 + 14 + 14 +7 + 7 + 7 + 7 + 7 + 7 = 112


6. 12 teams, 140 games, (2S/1D/6T) interleague. This could be 16 games (8H/8A) against the five teams in the same subleague, and 10 games (5H/5A) vs each of the six teams in the other league. 16 + 16 + 16 + 16 + 16 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 10 = 140


7. 16 teams, 140 games, (2S/1D/8T) interleague. This could be 12 games (6H/6A) against the 7 teams in the same subleague, and 7 games (3H/4A) or (4H/3A) vs each of the six teams in the other league. 12 * 7 = 84 and 7 * 8 = 56, and 84 + 56 = 140.

Or for this schedule of 16 teams and 140 games we could not have interleague play and just play 20 games against each of the other 7 teams in the same subleague.

[Garlon]

When using the mod, you need to put in one of the custom era_ballpark files designed for the mod so that OOTP has a match each season for each team. I was doing some testing and had removed the custom era_ballaprks file and put in the original game file after I had started a league and OOTP set the NeL team park factors all to 0.500 for some reason because those teams do not exist in the original game file.

[Garlon]

The mod is now available in the OOTP 25 Steam Workshop.

There are also 2 era stats mods and 3 era ballparks mods available.

[No Pepper]

Originally Posted by thehef

Got it. I'm just wondering about playing with the draft option off but manually intervening to mostly stock the 4 new teams with NeL players so they retain the flavor of NeL teams. Like maybe keep the biggest NeL stars on the 4 NeL teams, but not concern myself with the who (what color) the rest of players are on those 4 teams, and also not be concerned with non-top-tier NeLers ending up on the original 16 teams... I dunno, just kicking it around...

You were thinking on the same lines as I was for this. I stand to be corrected, but back then, it seems to me that there was less objection (minus Landis et al) to playing against full squads of black players than integrating teams/teammates. So if one wants integration but a bit of reality's inertia mixed in, I think your approach makes sense, that these extra teams (especially one named Black Barons) would be predominantly black at the outset and integrated over time, along with the other established teams through trades, drafting and free agency. I can only imagine enterprising Rube Foster stocking his team with most of the stars from the start

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

We don’t quite have enough players in the game to assign them to particular teams every year, but with some additional players added (at or below league average) perhaps we could assign the stats lines to those expansion teams directly – eliminating the need for an inaugural fantasy draft in years 1911 to 1961. Maybe instead of just four NeL teams with the same city and team name over time, they could move and evolve into different iterations in a manner reflective of the dynasty teams that each had their day in the sun in the NeL, so you get the Pittsburgh Crawfords in the early 30’s before they merge into the Homestead Grays, and so on.[/U]

I hear ya, hef & No Pepper. I’d like to get the stat lines assigned to teams too - and make the team city and names less static. We didn’t want to refine it forever before getting others the chance to play it though. It was balanced and running smooth so getting out into the world sooner rather than later was important. But I hear ya.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

I hear ya, hef & No Pepper. I’d like to get the stat lines assigned to teams too - and make the team city and names less static. We didn’t want to refine it forever before getting others the chance to play it though. It was balanced and running smooth so getting out into the world sooner rather than later was important. But I hear ya.

Absolutely re the part in bold. My desires to try to play it differently should not at all be interpreted as anything other than my incessant need to try things, and definitely not as criticism of your and Garlon's awesome work.

In reality, I can't remember the last time I actually immersed myself in an OOTP save and played a full season. All I really do is test things out, with the goal of eventually playing out my idea scenario, whatever that is

[Garlon]

This is from an 1871-2023 game I made yesterday. Negro Leaguers "Real" (MLE) stats they were given for their carer vs their career results in OOTP.


Player "Real" vs OOTP result

Batters

BA/OBP/SLG


Cool Papa Bell .294/.361/.405 vs .294/.361/.399

Willard Brown .313/.364/.487 vs .318/.369/.491

Oscar Charleston .313/.372/.494 vs .305/.362/.469

Ray Dandridge .303/.334/.394 vs .308/.340/.396

Bud Fowler .285/.336/.393 vs .294/.337/.409

Josh Gibson .306/.375/.536 vs .313/.381/.536

Frank Grant .299/.361/.436 vs .299/.361/.431

Pete Hill .289/.350/.383 vs .287/.352/.374

Judy Johnson .286/.325/.399 vs .305/.345/.419

Buck Leonard .300/.380/.484 vs .310/.394/.510

Pop Lloyd .302/.342/.393 vs .296/.335/.385

Biz Mackey .310/.360/.450 vs .304/.354/.441

Louis Santop .305/.357/.431 vs .307/.362/.429

Turkey Stearnes .314/.371/.514 vs .309/.364/.501

Mule Suttles .297/.360/.500 vs .307/.369/.512

Ben Taylor .300/.348/.404 vs .302/.353/.404

Cristobal Torriente .313/.378/.449 vs .320/.385/.454

Wilie Wells .285/.362/.423 vs .279/.355/.407

Sol White .280/.313/.389 vs .291/.326/.399

Jud Wilson .342/.397/.510 vs .346/.403/.512


In this group of batters, the average OPS result in OOTP was .003 greater than their real stats in the file.



Player "Real" vs OOTP result

Pitchers

ERA/WHIP/ERA+ vs ERA/WHIP/ERA+


Ray Brown 3.49/1.31/117 vs 3.48/1.31/118 (292 wins)

Andy Cooper 3.96/1.35/107 vs 3.78/1.30/112 (243 wins)

Leon Day 3.91/1.39/104 vs 3.86/1.41/104 (187 wins)

Martin Dihigo 4.02/1.38/105 vs 4.12/1.40/103 (256 wins)

Bill Foster 3.66/1.34/116 vs 3.58/1.30/121 (189 wins)

Jose Mendez 2.72/1.16/118 vs 3.24/1.22/103 (261 wins)

(For Mendez he was able to pitch far more innings in OOTP, which brings his averages down, but he did manage to win 261 games.)


Satchel Paige 3.17/1.22/131 vs 3.47/1.28/119 (390 wins)

(Paige ended with 1000 more innings than his real stats, but that is not unexpected considering he plays for 27 seasons. He ended up with 390 wins)


Bullet Rogan 3.49/1.32/110 vs 3.41/1.26/121 (244 wins)

Hilton Smith 3.65/1.33/113 vs 3.67/1.33/111 (218 wins)

Joe Williams 2.84/1.19/119 vs 3.02/1.19/115 (389 wins)


The average pitcher in this group had an ERA in OOTP that was .08 greater than their real stats in the file.

[Hoiles]

This looks fantastic, I'll be trying it out for sure.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by No Pepper

You were thinking on the same lines as I was for this. I stand to be corrected, but back then, it seems to me that there was less objection (minus Landis et al) to playing against full squads of black players than integrating teams/teammates. So if one wants integration but a bit of reality's inertia mixed in, I think your approach makes sense, that these extra teams (especially one named Black Barons) would be predominantly black at the outset and integrated over time, along with the other established teams through trades, drafting and free agency. I can only imagine enterprising Rube Foster stocking his team with most of the stars from the start

So on this, here's what I did:

- Started a game with the 1910 season, following most of the steps for this mod
- Enabled historical transactions and played the game through the 1910 season

In the 1910-11 offseason, the new teams appeared, as expected. Since there were no historical txns planned for between Feb 28th and April 10th (actually, I don't rememer the April date but it was something like that), I then...

- Set all teams to not Allow AI roster changes
- Unchecked "not allow" for the 4 NeL teams
- Disabled historical txns
- Ran the game thru early April

The four new teams immediately signed between 9 and 13 free agents, and over the next few weeks increased rosters to between 24 and 29. Since the NeLers and many others imported as free agents, these were the guys that the four new teams signed. None of the original-16 made any roster moves.

At this point I de-selected "not allow" for the remaining 16 teams, and re-enabled historical transactions. Then I simmed the season.

Additional tweaks would be necessary - such as further managing the NeL teams' rosters. For example, many of the white dudes the NeL teams signed were later that season - IRL & via OOTP hist txns - picked up by orig-16 teams. If I were going to immerse in this type of game, I'd have left Mike Donlin on on KC (historical transactions moved him off of KC on 6/16... Jean Dubuc was a similar example...

Another thing that would be required would be to manually fortify the 4 teams' rosters with guys - maybe players who missed the season - to make those teams stronger. As it was, with no further tweaks or micromanaging, these 4 teams were not that competitive. KC & Birm at least didn't finish last, but Chic & Homest were unrealistically poor. (See the standings below.) And I say unrealistic not from the perspective of how well the NeL's performed, but from the perspective of MLB teams are never that bad... As it turned out, BBB & KCM had decent lineups, whereas CAG & HG ended up with a lot of below-Mendoza-line guys in their lineups...

Some NeL player highlights:

- Charles Earle (BBB) led the AL in dingers w 24
- Spotswood Poles (BBB) was 3rd in the AL w 50 SB's
- Joe Williams (KCM) was 3rd in AL w 2.65 ERA
- Jose Mendez (KCM) was 3rd in AL w 205 K's & 8.4 P-War
- Jose Junco (BBB) led AL w 10 saves

Those are just from my leader boards... the NL teams didn't place anyone on them except Alfredo Cabrera with a NL-leading 20-game hitting streak; but Harry Buckner hit .297 to lead CAG, and Andrew Payne paced HG at .275...

At any rate, this was a pretty cool experiment that gives me ideas of how to retain the flavor of historical rosters and also have the 4 new teams represent NeL teams & players...

[LansdowneSt]

You’ll historically transact anything. :P. I figured you’d give it a try as I remember you mentioning this idea when the mod was still an idea. If you keep the save going, no one will sign the NeL players and the 4 teams will be the beneficiaries of the incoming talent with each player debut. Since we added some stats to players that overlapped the MLB, like Minoso, he might have a -99 suffix on his id so the txn file might miss him when his irl self gets to the bigs. But, in the end they are just additional players and 4 teams to hold them so try the mod out as you like.

[Garlon]

When teams lose that many games it is usually because they do not have legitimate SP. i think that is what is happening with those teams below 40 wins. They need at least 7 pitchers including at least 4 with legitimate SP stamina.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Garlon

When teams lose that many games it is usually because they do not have legitimate SP. i think that is what is happening with those teams below 40 wins. They need at least 7 pitchers including at least 4 with legitimate SP stamina.

CAG had four SP's w a 75 stamina rating and three with a 70... 4.98 team ERA, last in MLB...
HM had one 80 and three 75's... 4.75 ERA, 3rd-to-last in MLB...
KCM had an 85, and 80, three 75's, and a 70... 4.39 ERA was 16th overall...
BBB had two 80's and five 75's... 3.88 ERA was 10th overall...

I don't doubt that stamina is often the culprit in this situation, but for these two teams (CAG & HM), hitting was the primary issue:

MLB batting avg: .268
CAG: .214
HM: .216

KCM (.263 avg) & BBB (.257 avg) had low/middle-of-the-pack batting avg & HR #'s.

SLA & WS1 had middle-of-the-pack BA's, but anemic HR #'s... CAG & HM had HR #'s just as low as SLA & WS1. We're talking 16, 15, 11 and 11.

I'd think that by (manually) redistributing the hitting talent more-evenly between the 4 NeL teams, and (manually) adding a few hitters and pitchers from the "missed season" ranks, I can get more-realistic results... And that's all I'd really expect out of this modding-the-mod scenario.

So I'd say that based upon my limited and not-quite-recommended testing, this mod is really working great!

Kudos again to you both, and to those who assisted

[thehef]

Originally Posted by LansdowneSt

You’ll historically transact anything. :P.

Fact check: Not fake news

[congokurtz]

Great work, gentlemen! I started using your mod a couple of days ago and all I can say is WOW!

I am having an issue, however, with importing logos with the logos you provided. I'm on a Mac and when I go to import a logo the oi files are not appearing within the import window, only the png files appear. Any advice?

[LansdowneSt]

Originally Posted by congokurtz

Great work, gentlemen! I started using your mod a couple of days ago and all I can say is WOW!

I am having an issue, however, with importing logos with the logos you provided. I'm on a Mac and when I go to import a logo the oi files are not appearing within the import window, only the png files appear. Any advice?

It looks like two of the files in the mod folder of additional logos are .oi.

If they are not coming up in the in-game selection menu and you want them to, go to Settings at the Main Screen. When the pop-up comes up, go to Troubleshooting tab. Then "Open folder containing customizable data", then navigate to the logos folder. The two .oi files from the mod are the "chicago_orphans_1900-1902_0C2340_2D2926" one and the "chicago_orphans_1900-1902_small_50" one. Open it up like shown (even though my screenshot is a PC, that doesn't matter). Edit the file name so that it is .png instead of .oi. If you get a warning, ignore it, change the file extension works fine. Once I do that on my screen, I can even see the thumbnail for those two files.

The .oi files load fine on their own though so that's why it didn't matter. We tend to let them auto-load as the years go by, but if you prefer to manually load file from the in-game menus, you'll need those as .pngs to see them. The .oi files are likely hidden as they come from MLB under the license.

As an aside, I don't see the Newark Eagles in there so maybe we'll have to post that one here for folks.

Let us know of that sorts it. Glad you are having fun with it

[congokurtz]

Thank you! Most of the logo files had the .oi extension but I was able to make a batch extension change to .png and it all worked.

Now time to enjoy the great work!

[quillenl]

Using this database in my random debut league. Thank you very much!

[Garlon]

With the newest patch for OOTP 25, the color barrier turns on after the 1884 World Series.

When the mod was released, the game did this after the 1883 World Series.

If you play 19th century, be advised.