Historical Minor League Schedules

[thehef]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The <SPLIT> function is a simple, elegant solution. However, I suspect it would not be enough. Recall that OOTP needs to know the number of games in the season in order to calculate magic numbers, elimination numbers, and so forth. To calculate such things for each half OOTP would need to know the number of games in each half.

So, the header of the schedule file might need to include something like "first_half_games=60" and "second_half_games=80". (First half ends and second half begins day numbers may still need to be in the header as well.)

Uneven split schedules are not common but they do sometimes happen. The 2024 MLB Draft League schedule for example features 35 games in the first half and 45 games in the second half.

I hear ya. The way I'd envision it, though, is the <SPLIT> function is the way to go. The fallback/default would only come into play if the gamer chooses Split on the Options panel, but the gamer's chosen schedule doesn't have <SPLIT> in it. In that case, OOTP looks at the number of days in the schedule and splits the schedule at the halfway point.

But again, any serious gamer who wants an historically-accurate or otherwise-desired split schedule would make sure that <SPLIT> is in the schedule file.

IOW...
Best: <SPLIT> is in the schedule file in the spot where it should be
Fallback: OOTP splits the schedule at the halfway point, based upon the number of days in the schedule file.
Unplayable: The way OOTP currently splits unbalanced schedule files

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by No Pepper

Having read thehef's report on OOTP handling of split season schedules, I'm a bit split regarding the translating of published negro league schedules into OOTP format that joefromchicago provided me years ago, and how they'll play out in the game.

I would like to add these to our repository here soon but would also like them to be usable. Any suggestions going forward?

Nothing is perfect regarding the published schedules and I have a couple of seasons I cobbled up a schedule of "as played" games. I could certainly create additional schedules that would both give a sense of the season but also strictly adhere to balance and satisfy OOTP quirks and or inadequacies.

Glad to see that this project is still on your radar screen. I eagerly await the results of your work. I may have a couple more newspaper items that might help out, and cmcgill might also be able to help. One suggestion: rather than post NeL schedules here, I recommend starting a new thread devoted solely to them (this is, after all, for minor league schedules, and the Negro Leagues are major ).

As for cobbling together schedules from a variety of sources, or having hybrid "scheduled plus as-played" schedules, I'd say "do whatever it takes!" Yes, it's not a perfect solution, and it's frustrating that OOTP doesn't handle split seasons very well, but we might never get anything better, and I think there's a growing interest in the community to re-play NeL seasons.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

As for cobbling together schedules from a variety of sources, or having hybrid "scheduled plus as-played" schedules, I'd say "do whatever it takes!"

I wholeheartedly agree! As a particularly favorite poster of mine once wrote (when posting a revised 1903 PCL schedule):

Originally Posted by thehef

[T]his schedule is neither the "original" schedule nor should it be considered "as played" (it does not account for rainouts). Since minor league schedules of this era were always works in progress, so-called "original" schedules were more of "initial drafts" and not just "subject to change" but *expected* to change. Therefore, while others may see it differently, I consider the type of schedule in this post to be the more-accurate & more-realistic type of schedule for use in OOTP. IOW, it evolved as the *intended* schedule.

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Yes, it's not a perfect solution, and it's frustrating that OOTP doesn't handle split seasons very well, but we might never get anything better, and I think there's a growing interest in the community to re-play NeL seasons.

I've posted the issue as a Project Bug. I definitely can't speak to what sort of priority OOTP will place on it, but I'm thinking that it's got to be so far from what the devs intended that they will make an effort to fix it up. Especially now that it affects historical NeL's, which are becoming more and more in demand.

[thehef]

Philosophical question about OOTP schedule-making:

Background:
In the early years of the PCL, regardless of whether the home team was Oakland or San Francisco, with the other team being either on the road or the opponent, the schedule was as follows:

Tue: at Oakland
Wed thru Sat: at SF
Sun am: at Oakland
Sun pm: at SF

OOTP schedules don't allow for games to be played at a neutral or alternate ballparks, so in the example of Los Angeles playing in the Bay Area against the Oaks, I would just set the schedule to be LA @ Oak for each of those six days (including the doubleheader on Sunday).

However, when the matchup is between those two Bay Area teams (Oak & SF), what's the best way to handle it? I'll note that some of the early schedules don't even specify which team is the host team for these Bay Area series'; rather, they just indicate where the game is played...

Options include:

A) When it can be determined which is the host team for the series, have all 7 games at the host team's field; and then when it cannot be determined which is the host team, just randomly alternate the series' host team each time these two teams play a series. This is perhaps the simplest solution, even though it's far from historically accurate (especially when Oakland is the host team), but at least it results in a reasonably balanced number of home/away games between the two teams.

B) Same as #1 above, except split the two Sunday doubleheader games so Oak is the host for the morning game and SF is the host for afternoon game, which would be historically accurate. This, too, would keep the home/away balance pretty even between the two teams.

C) Go with a strict SF @ Oak on Tues, Oak @ SF on Wed-thru-Sat, and then SF @ Oak Sun am & Oak @ SF Sun pm. This will accurately reflect any home-field advantage, and it will also allow the gamer to see the correct field when playing out games. But SF will end up with many more home games than Oak.

I'm torn between B and C, and don't really like A at all... Thoughts?

Also, I like to do schedules from the perspective of what I like to call "as intended," which is different from "as played" in that it wouldn't include historical rain-outs and make-ups, but it would include other types of schedule changes (such as a Tuesday-the-10th game being moved to the following Monday/off-day the 16th since travel from, say, Seattle to Los Angeles, was not really possible with just one off day - the 9th in this example). And my approach is also different from "original/actual" schedules because - as indicated in a previous post - early minor league original schedules were basically just drafts or guides and expected to change.

So with that in mind... late in the 1905 PCL season Tacoma moved its last three home series' as follows:

1) vs Oakland, moved to Spokane
2) vs Portland, moved to Portland
3) vs LA, moved to LA (this was followed, incidentally, by a series already on the schedule to be played in LA)

OOTP's schedule format doesn't allow us to schedule for #1 above to be played in Spokane, so no issue there: I just leave these as being at Tacoma. But for the other two series, I'd be inclined to move those to Portland and LA, respectively, since that's where they were actually played and those schedule changes were known well in advance, which fits with my "as intended" approach...

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by thehef

I'm torn between B and C, and don't really like A at all... Thoughts?

I would follow the dictum of famed Chicago architect Louis Sullivan, who said "form follows function." I figure that gamers want schedules that work for them, as opposed to schedules that are absolutely faithful to history. And for minor-league schedules, that means schedules that are largely balanced (home-away) and that fit with the major-league season. That latter point doesn't really mesh with the whole PCL ethos - minor leagues today end their seasons right after Labor Day so that the MLB parent clubs can call up their farmhands once rosters expand on Sept. 1, whereas the "classic" PCL schedules could stretch all the way into October So I guess my preference would be for option A, as that would yield a schedule with the most balance, but really it's your call. I can see the virtues of all three options.

[EDIT - And you can always post alternate versions of the same schedule to give everyone a choice. That way the gamer can choose which option works best]

Originally Posted by thehef

Also, I like to do schedules from the perspective of what I like to call "as intended," which is different from "as played" in that it wouldn't include historical rain-outs and make-ups, but it would include other types of schedule changes (such as a Tuesday-the-10th game being moved to the following Monday/off-day the 16th since travel from, say, Seattle to Los Angeles, was not really possible with just one off day - the 9th in this example). And my approach is also different from "original/actual" schedules because - as indicated in a previous post - early minor league original schedules were basically just drafts or guides and expected to change.

So with that in mind... late in the 1905 PCL season Tacoma moved its last three home series' as follows:

1) vs Oakland, moved to Spokane
2) vs Portland, moved to Portland
3) vs LA, moved to LA (this was followed, incidentally, by a series already on the schedule to be played in LA)

OOTP's schedule format doesn't allow us to schedule for #1 above to be played in Spokane, so no issue there: I just leave these as being at Tacoma. But for the other two series, I'd be inclined to move those to Portland and LA, respectively, since that's where they were actually played and those schedule changes were known well in advance, which fits with my "as intended" approach...

Works for me. Tacoma was a small market compared to LA and Portland, so it wouldn't have been unusual in those days to move games to bigger parks that would offer a bigger gate. I'd just suggest - to you and anyone else submitting schedules to this thread - that you mention any sorts of changes or modifications that you made to the schedules that you're posting.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

...And you can always post alternate versions of the same schedule to give everyone a choice. That way the gamer can choose which option works best

Excellent point. If we (hopefully at some point) get a sense that OOTP will add the early 1900's minors - such as the PCL - to its historical minor leagues module, I would absolutely do that. Until then those early PCL schedules almost seem pointless. Yet I carry on

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Works for me. Tacoma was a small market compared to LA and Portland, so it wouldn't have been unusual in those days to move games to bigger parks that would offer a bigger gate.

For sure. In fact the prior season (1904) Tacoma played it's early-season (late March & early-to-mid April) "home" games and their end-of-season "home" games in Fresno. Seattle also finished its season playing "home" games in Fresno, but didn't start their home games until the very end of April

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

I'd just suggest - to you and anyone else submitting schedules to this thread - that you mention any sorts of changes or modifications that you made to the schedules that you're posting.

Yep, I try to include as much info - perhaps too much for some - as I can!

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by thehef

I'm torn between B and C, and don't really like A at all... Thoughts?

Option C.

Originally Posted by thehef

Also, I like to do schedules from the perspective of what I like to call "as intended," which is different from "as played" in that it wouldn't include historical rain-outs and make-ups, but it would include other types of schedule changes (such as a Tuesday-the-10th game being moved to the following Monday/off-day the 16th since travel from, say, Seattle to Los Angeles, was not really possible with just one off day - the 9th in this example).

The above applies to the majors as well. Often in earlier MLB schedules games were moved from a Friday or Monday to Sunday to create a doubleheader not on the originally published schedule. The addition of night games also sometimes resulted in schedule revisions, as did the legalization of Sunday baseball in certain locales. Some of this I have documented.

There are other things too, such as the 1991 MLB season which had the Expos playing several home series as away series due to structural problems at Olympic Stadium. This could be recreated by taking the original schedule and shifting the appropriate series.

I think at one point I had a list of historical MLB seasons which could have such alternative schedules.

Originally Posted by thehef

OOTP's schedule format doesn't allow us to schedule for #1 above to be played in Spokane, so no issue there

If we're asking for schedule file changes for the split season format, then let's ask for a 'park' field to be added so that alternative sites for home games can finally be recreated. MLB has many examples of this, the most notable being the Cleveland Indians who for many years split its home games between League Park and Cleveland Stadium.

[No Pepper]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

If we're asking for schedule file changes for the split season format, then let's ask for a 'park' field to be added so that alternative sites for home games can finally be recreated.

Actually, it already exists! I decided to see if it was possible in the league setting/schedule editor and I noticed a Park ID in the game's line. I believe the schedule defaults to "0" which will default to the home team's park. However, that value can be changed to any park ID that is in your league (universe?). Park ID numbers can be found in the park editor in league settings. I believe you can have parks in your league/universe that are not assigned to a team, i.e., neutral parks.

A change in park for that game is noted in the league schedule's page under "Notes" on the right side.

When I exported the schedule in the schedule editor, this is what I saw in the resulting .lsdl file:

<GAME day="1" time="1905" away="6" home="8" park="1" />



For this to work though, someone playing this schedule would need the full set of league parks with the matching ID. That might be the tricky part as I think park IDs are not user-defined. I only just fleshed this feature out, so I don't know for sure, but the park ID "1" in the schedule file's line of code above may be linked to the team ID "1" so that if the schedule is used again for the following year, OOTP will randomize the team ID number which may also affect the park assignment. So instead of playing in Oakland on Tuesday, you may be playing in Timbuktu.

[thehef]

Originally Posted by No Pepper

Actually, it already exists! I decided to see if it was possible in the league setting/schedule editor and I noticed a Park ID in the game's line. I believe the schedule defaults to "0" which will default to the home team's park. However, that value can be changed to any park ID that is in your league (universe?). Park ID numbers can be found in the park editor in league settings. I believe you can have parks in your league/universe that are not assigned to a team, i.e., neutral parks.

A change in park for that game is noted in the league schedule's page under "Notes" on the right side.

When I exported the schedule in the schedule editor, this is what I saw in the resulting .lsdl file:

<GAME day="1" time="1905" away="6" home="8" park="1" />



For this to work though, someone playing this schedule would need the full set of league parks with the matching ID. That might be the tricky part as I think park IDs are not user-defined. I only just fleshed this feature out, so I don't know for sure, but the park ID "1" in the schedule file's line of code above may be linked to the team ID "1" so that if the schedule is used again for the following year, OOTP will randomize the team ID number which may also affect the park assignment. So instead of playing in Oakland on Tuesday, you may be playing in Timbuktu.

Thanks for sharing that! Very interesting

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by No Pepper

For this to work though, someone playing this schedule would need the full set of league parks with the matching ID. That might be the tricky part as I think park IDs are not user-defined. I only just fleshed this feature out, so I don't know for sure, but the park ID "1" in the schedule file's line of code above may be linked to the team ID "1" so that if the schedule is used again for the following year, OOTP will randomize the team ID number which may also affect the park assignment. So instead of playing in Oakland on Tuesday, you may be playing in Timbuktu.

Yes, for fictional leagues a specified park wouldn't work if the file is being reused in subsequent years. I was thinking of it more for historical leagues where the instances of a club splitting its home games between multiple parks during a season cannot be automatically replicated.

It would work for frictional leagues if they were using the cycling schedule feature and were rotating between a fixed set of schedule files.

[thehef]

For those with an interest please note that post #240 regarding the 1901 California League schedule has been updated... and now includes a 2nd (alternate) schedule attachment...

[joefromchicago]

Remember when we used to post schedules to this thread?

1917 NORTHWESTERN LEAGUE

Teams:

Butte MT Miners
Great Falls MT Electrics
Seattle WA Giants
Spokane WA Indians
Tacoma WA Tigers
Vancouver BC Beavers

Schedule Characteristics:

SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G144_T6_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="144" start_month="4" start_day="24" start_day_of_week="3"

Season starts on April 24 and ends on September 9. Teams play from 63 to 79 home games. Teams play 142-144 games and play each opponent 19-36 times. Weekday and Saturday games start at 3:00, Sunday games start at 1:00. Saturday and holiday - Victoria Day (5/24 - Vancouver), Memorial Day (5/30), Dominion Day (7/2 - Vancouver), Independence Day (7/4), and Labor Day (9/3) - double-headers start at noon and 3:00. No Sunday games in Vancouver (but see below).

Even The Sporting News called this league "peculiar." Like another far-west circuit, the Pacific Coast League, the great distances between the cities in the Northwestern League necessitated long series, often stretching from Monday through Sunday. Because Vancouver lost out on lucrative Sunday dates due to the local blue laws, it was scheduled to play two Sunday games in Seattle against Great Falls (8/19) and Spokane (8/26). Although it's not specified in the printed schedule, I assumed that these would have been considered "home" games for Vancouver.

Northwestern League 1917.lsdl

For those who like a little more balance in their leagues, I revised the historical schedule by dropping a Vancouver-Spokane and Vancouver-Tacoma game so that each team now plays 142 games. Home-and-away totals, though, are still really unbalanced. The characteristics for this schedule are:

SCHEDULE type="ILN_BGY_G142_T6_C_" inter_league="0" balanced_games="1" games_per_team="142" start_month="4" start_day="24" start_day_of_week="3"

Northwestern League 1917 balanced.lsdl

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

If we're asking for schedule file changes for the split season format, then let's ask for a 'park' field to be added so that alternative sites for home games can finally be recreated.

Originally Posted by No Pepper

Actually, it already exists! I decided to see if it was possible in the league setting/schedule editor and I noticed a Park ID in the game's line. I believe the schedule defaults to "0" which will default to the home team's park. However, that value can be changed to any park ID that is in your league (universe?). Park ID numbers can be found in the park editor in league settings. I believe you can have parks in your league/universe that are not assigned to a team, i.e., neutral parks.

Returning to this for a moment, I've thought of a variation of the above: the ability to designate certain games as overseas or foreign location games, a designation which would persist in subsequent seasons.

In 2023, the Cubs and Cardinals played a 2-game series in the U.K. To accommodate this, the clubs had an unusual pattern of off days: Thursday and Friday off, played in London on Saturday and Sunday, then had Monday off. Anyone using this schedule is going to see that pattern of off days, which doesn't make sense absent the games being played overseas.

Designating the games as overseas and assigning an appropriate park to them, now the off days make sense. The important part is that the designation carries over into subsequent seasons. Whichever teams are slotted into that match-up the off days still make sense since the designation is to that scheduled game.

You could even tie news articles and stories to the designation, and have them pop up as the games approach, adding a nice bit of flavor to that baseball universe.