Worth it?

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by locuspc

I frankly don't believe you. Put a bunch of DH's in the field, you will not lead the league in ZR. I invite anyone else to try the experiment above and see what you find. I urge anyone on the fence about the new version not to believe FantasyDrafter's characterization of it.

I didn’t say put DHs in the field - I said neglect defense (as in lab, focus) but have good base stats. I tried to turn players into DHs by neglecting them, I assumed it wouldn’t work and it definitely didn’t. There is no evidence I have found that you can significantly negatively impact base stats / performance in a players 20s by ignoring them until they decline due to age / injury.

If you guys like it I think that is great. Honestly it is more fun that way.

[FantasyDrafter]

In the k/9 thing, there is an increase in the first generation of players league wide that stabilizes and returns to historical mlb levels after the seed players retire. K/9 career leaderboard is always (pre patch anyway) dominated by pre 2040 players.

[locuspc]

Originally Posted by FantasyDrafter

I didn’t say put DHs in the field - I said neglect defense (as in lab, focus) but have good base stats.

Oh. Yes, obviously if you fill your team with players who already have great defense you're going to have a great defense. I don't know why you thought that was relevant? The dev lab is not the only way to get defense and I never said it was. I said if you put your fielders in the lab it will have a palpable impact, and it will. The Dev Lab lets you get guys who might not have great defense and have a chance to bump that defense up and make it more playable. I'm telling you, run the experiment. Don't just tell me you can get high defensive rating guys without the lab, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

[FantasyDrafter]

I didn’t say great, I said good. Obviously that is subjective but it is quite easy to get guys that are 50+ through the draft / IAFA to stay at a pretty solid defensive level generation after generation. Good range is always a good thing to scout as well as I’m sure you know.

[locuspc]

Originally Posted by FantasyDrafter

I didn’t say great, I said good. Obviously that is subjective but it is quite easy to get guys that are 50+ through the draft / IAFA to stay at a pretty solid defensive level generation after generation. Good range is always a good thing to scout as well as I’m sure you know.

Yes I know all of this. It's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. I'm perplexed why you brought it up or why you think it's in any way a response to me telling you the dev lab substantially increases players' defense.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by locuspc

Yes I know all of this. It's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. I'm perplexed why you brought it up or why you think it's in any way a response to me telling you the dev lab substantially increases players' defense.

Because this has jumped all over the place - originally I said “now that we can choose to do a second on I guess I will do defense or base running” but I stand by it was silly if anyone was choosing to eliminate the option of doing a hard (long) program before they patched that. Because those are the only programs that offer a needle moving result. And the only way to quantify that is what the editor says.

I’ll set up the orioles since they are mostly young tomorrow and run some defense labs when I get a chance.

Also, at least in the first sun I ran today, batter Ks are still extremely high in the latest patch, but single season pitcher k/9 was really toned down 2024-2040. Not sure how they managed that one yet.

[md40022]

Honest question... Do you get any enjoyment from OOTP or do you just run sim after sim and then complain about the results? Like, do you have a sim that you are taking enjoyment in as a baseball fan? Or is this strictly an analyze data thing for you?

I can't speak for everyone, but I know that I'm not alone when I say your running of sims, posting of the results, and then 20 pages of more or less complaining about the results is kind of at the point where our eyes are starting to bleed.... It would be one thing if the game was broken. But it's not. And we're kind of at the point now where you are just repeating yourself over and over again in numerous threads, saying how the numbers and the data isn't what you want the numbers and data to be.

Everyone knows your feelings at this point. Trust me. We all do. Your expectation for the dev lab isn't what the dev lab actually is. We get it. The devs are not going to redo the game for you though. Nothing new has been said in this debate for a while now. Just a lot of keystrokes saying the same stuff.

[FantasyDrafter]

Originally Posted by thenewchuckd

I just couldn't resist. There is simply no getting anything but a rah-rah answer if you're coming to this forum. It is not right and you deserve better.

There is no difference from OOTP 23. Development lab is as close to nothing as it gets.

At least wait until the game goes 50% off and/or they fix some things and/or make real improvements.

I think his point stands…and you are correct, I have definitely spent too many years staring at the same spreadsheets expecting something different. Everyone can resume nitpicking diving OF animations, I will move on.

Good luck all!

[KJDelaney]

no

[Pendragon]

If you are interested in historical play, it is definitely worth it. I'm seeing much more realistic results.

I was on the fence about getting this one, but I'm very glad I did.

[Sweed]

Yes.

[Hammerpgh]

I'm in a similar position to the op in so far as I purchased last years game (24) but never had a chance to play it due to some technical difficulities. I have recently resolved those and got the game re-installed a few days ago. I am very new to the game so would I be better learning it with 24 and upgrading at a later date or just going straight to 25 now.

Cheers

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Hammerpgh

I'm in a similar position to the op in so far as I purchased last years game (24) but never had a chance to play it due to some technical difficulities. I have recently resolved those and got the game re-installed a few days ago. I am very new to the game so would I be better learning it with 24 and upgrading at a later date or just going straight to 25 now.

Cheers

New to baseball management simulation, OOTP, or both? If you're new to baseball I think I would learn baseball, front office and on field, using v24, making sure you enjoy it, before spending more money. Like football there are a lot of roster rules that you may want to get an understanding of, along with nuances of the game on the field. Then move to v25 if you find baseball enjoyable. There are usually sales at the All Star Break along with some a couple of others over the summer and fall.

If you play FM I think you'll find the updates in OOTP, from year to year, are similar to that. Some find the additions, changes, and fixes worth the price. Others don't.

[locuspc]

Yeah, if you own the previous version but you haven't played it, you should treat it like a very full-featured demo. The two versions play similarly and it's not like there will be a huge learning curve going from 24 to 25. Most of what you learn playing 24 will carry over, and you can convert over a save file too. So if you decide you really like the game and want access to the dev lab and the upgraded in-game animations and so forth, it will be a smooth transition when you buy the new version.

[Hammerpgh]

Cheers guys that confirms what I was thinking.

I’m in the UK and got manorly into baseball back in the 80’s when I also started my love affair with American football. I’m a stats nerd so baseball was just the perfect fit for me. I was in the US back in 2001 and was due to see my first live game but 9/11 put paid to that as it was that week I was due to be attending a game. Other things took over through the years though and it’s only recently that i’ve started to get back into it. I first picked up OOTP 21 during Covid but for one reason or another never managed to get going with it.. work was really busy for me during that time. Last year I was doing some clean-up on that laptop it was installed on and found the game again so picked up 24 as it was on sale. Unfortunately the game refused to run and eventually I gave up until receiving the announcement of this years game and Go. This sparked my interest once again and I investigated the problems with 24 again and managed to get it running so here we are now.

Limited experience with baseball management games but love things that have depth to them and that’s why OOTP first took my interest. This forum and the Discord also help in that respect because I love being part of communities with a passion for what they are interested in.

Thanks again for your responses. I’m sure I’ll have plenty of things to ask over the coming weeks and months so you’re bound to hear plenty from me on here.

[jcard]

Originally Posted by FantasyDrafter

I think his point stands…and you are correct, I have definitely spent too many years staring at the same spreadsheets expecting something different. Everyone can resume nitpicking diving OF animations, I will move on.

Good luck all!

Personally, I appreciate the sharing of your studies. It’s not like there is a shortage of people here all too willing to share and promote their unsubstantiated, uh, “insight”.

As for the OP—not sure if polling the choir is the best way to inquire into the existence of God.

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by jcard

Personally, I appreciate the sharing of your studies. It’s not like there is a shortage of people here all too willing to share and promote their unsubstantiated, uh, “insight”.

As for the OP—not sure if polling the choir is the best way to inquire into the existence of God.

Well put! My answer to OP's question would be "Yes", but with a qualifier that it is really not a binary question. It depends on so many variables on the part of the user.

For me, hell yeah, but I'm (mostly) retired, can easily afford the purchase, have time to play it, and enough background to experience the subtle changes from year to year. I'm delighted with (most of) the new features, and willing to hang in while the rough edges are smoothed.

It's completely fair to play a hundred years into the future, to detect flaws that may only become apparent over time. I don't sim entire seasons, so that research is unlikely to affect me; but I appreciate the work (note my "work" versus "play" distinction).

For sure a game this complex has flaws, or perceived flaws, or features that not everybody likes (for me, "hard trading" is a huge and aggravating waste of time, so I turn it off in every sim I play). The true flaws get fixed, through some coding magic that I will never comprehend. We debate other aspects, even what the default settings will be, ad nauseum sometimes.

Over time I have learned that people play OOTP in very different ways: historical, pitch-by-pitch, season-by-season, random debut, fictional players, minor leagues, development on, actual trades and injuries and retirement on or off. Some are casual users, and some must play a good part of the day, every day. So there can never be one response applicable to everybody.

I'd encourage the OP to pick a season, choose variables, save and backup often, and use the game as a learning tool for baseball. For background, it can't hurt to use Baseball Reference and the SABR bios of many players. That gives the stats a real richness. Despite all of our intense opinions, there is no one way to play, and there never will be. YMMV.