calculating stuff for SP vs RP

jaa36 · 06-13-2025, 09:46 PM

Hi, I started to look into how stuff is calculated, but found it a really difficult nut to crack. I'd find this helpful so I can know what a SP's stuff would be if he switched to an RP without having to change their role. This post https://www.reddit.com/r/OOTP/commen...s_other_stuff/
goes into it, but the information is a few years old, and uses the 1-250 scale rather than the 1-500 scale, and I can't entirely follow the thought process or where he got the info from.

From what I understand thus far:
-the "visible" ratings for pitched are influenced by velocity and possibly some other factors to create a "value" for the pitch
-those values are then combined to create a "stuff" rating, though there is different weighting for starting pitchers vs relievers.

But it appears to be pretty complicated relationships between these factors, such that increasing a "visible" rating for a pitch, or velocity, will not have a linear effect on stuff, so I've found it quite hard to back-calculate. If anyone has ideas on this, chime in! Or if there's a way to get around this by viewing SP stuff rating/potential and RP stuff rating/potential concurrently, that would be helpful too.

Garlon · 06-15-2025, 12:45 PM

I think when you switch the role from SP to RP that the Stuff rating is calculated based on the top 2 pitches in the repertoire instead of all the pitch types for that pitcher.

omg_pwnasaurus · 06-15-2025, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

I think when you switch the role from SP to RP that the Stuff rating is calculated based on the top 2 pitches in the repertoire instead of all the pitch types for that pitcher.

Ooh that's interesting, I hadn't heard that before but makes sense. I thought maybe it was because it was representing a "short burst" type of thing relievers might get a boost for rather than SPs who have to stretch themselves out over multiple innings.

oldfatbaldguy · 06-15-2025, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

I think when you switch the role from SP to RP that the Stuff rating is calculated based on the top 2 pitches in the repertoire instead of all the pitch types for that pitcher.

Yeah, it's something along those lines. When you flip a guy's "position" back and forth between starter and reliever, you can see that there's less of a stuff change for guys who have three pitches that are all rated similarly. For some guys, there is no change.

jaa36 · 06-15-2025, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

I think when you switch the role from SP to RP that the Stuff rating is calculated based on the top 2 pitches in the repertoire instead of all the pitch types for that pitcher.

I think this may have been true a few versions back. Nowadays, the RP stuff rating is still heavily influenced by the top two pitches, but adding/improving other pitches will also slightly improve overall stuff, which you can see in the editor.

But it's certainly true that there is more of a stuff boost for some pitchers than others. That's why I would find it valuable to know who those guys are without having to flip their roles back and forth to find out, or to export pitch and velocity ratings and figure it out from there.

Pelican · 06-17-2025, 10:09 AM

I have learned not to overvalue the Stuff rating. First, a SP with one or even two very good pitches will not necessarily have great Stuff, if the rest of his pitches are no better than mediocre. (That guy is a candidate to become an RP.) Second, even a good Stuff rating cannot overcome a lower Movement rating. Movement, somewhat deceptively (It's really just a placeholder for how hard a pitcher gets hit.), is based on HR allowed and PABIP. A guy who is going to allow a lot of HR and safe hits on batted balls won't be successful, no matter how good his Stuff is. Movement seems to be the most important rating of the three; unless Control is dreadful.

NoOne · 06-18-2025, 10:23 PM

believe you get a tick up in velo? play-by-play from games could tell you if that is true or not.

the way the game works, overall stuff LvR and RvL is what matters. it's not per pitch... however repertoire does add flavor 'somehow.' e.g. a highly rated SP with a well-rated KB will have consistently low BABIP. Also, why those SP eat innings up above average when they have some talent.

you can learn what will jump more than others.. some alluded to it.. like 2 dominant pitches and third weak one will probably have a higher boost... mostly due to weight being removed from that third pitch.

some ptiches are more impacted by velo than others.. i coudl be wrong but i thought RP throw a bit harder than as SP.. if that's true, further impacts the boost.

play around with a few players and you'll be able to estimate the boost no problem for different contexts.

06-13-2025, 09:46 PM	#1
jaa36 Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,104	calculating stuff for SP vs RP Hi, I started to look into how stuff is calculated, but found it a really difficult nut to crack. I'd find this helpful so I can know what a SP's stuff would be if he switched to an RP without having to change their role. This post https://www.reddit.com/r/OOTP/commen...s_other_stuff/ goes into it, but the information is a few years old, and uses the 1-250 scale rather than the 1-500 scale, and I can't entirely follow the thought process or where he got the info from. From what I understand thus far: -the "visible" ratings for pitched are influenced by velocity and possibly some other factors to create a "value" for the pitch -those values are then combined to create a "stuff" rating, though there is different weighting for starting pitchers vs relievers. But it appears to be pretty complicated relationships between these factors, such that increasing a "visible" rating for a pitch, or velocity, will not have a linear effect on stuff, so I've found it quite hard to back-calculate. If anyone has ideas on this, chime in! Or if there's a way to get around this by viewing SP stuff rating/potential and RP stuff rating/potential concurrently, that would be helpful too.

06-17-2025, 10:09 AM	#6
Pelican Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: Wilmington, Delaware Posts: 2,902	I have learned not to overvalue the Stuff rating. First, a SP with one or even two very good pitches will not necessarily have great Stuff, if the rest of his pitches are no better than mediocre. (That guy is a candidate to become an RP.) Second, even a good Stuff rating cannot overcome a lower Movement rating. Movement, somewhat deceptively (It's really just a placeholder for how hard a pitcher gets hit.), is based on HR allowed and PABIP. A guy who is going to allow a lot of HR and safe hits on batted balls won't be successful, no matter how good his Stuff is. Movement seems to be the most important rating of the three; unless Control is dreadful. __________________ Pelican OOTP 2020-? ”Hard to believe, Harry.” Last edited by Pelican; 06-17-2025 at 10:11 AM.

06-15-2025, 12:45 PM	#2
Garlon Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,254	I think when you switch the role from SP to RP that the Stuff rating is calculated based on the top 2 pitches in the repertoire instead of all the pitch types for that pitcher.

06-18-2025, 10:23 PM	#7
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,269 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	believe you get a tick up in velo? play-by-play from games could tell you if that is true or not. the way the game works, overall stuff LvR and RvL is what matters. it's not per pitch... however repertoire does add flavor 'somehow.' e.g. a highly rated SP with a well-rated KB will have consistently low BABIP. Also, why those SP eat innings up above average when they have some talent. you can learn what will jump more than others.. some alluded to it.. like 2 dominant pitches and third weak one will probably have a higher boost... mostly due to weight being removed from that third pitch. some ptiches are more impacted by velo than others.. i coudl be wrong but i thought RP throw a bit harder than as SP.. if that's true, further impacts the boost. play around with a few players and you'll be able to estimate the boost no problem for different contexts.