Need Spring Training Advice!!!

sfgiants2003 · 04-02-2003, 05:16 PM

I have played OOTP since version 4 and I love the game! However, in my anxiousness to move on to each successive season, I have never done much with the Spring Training points. (I usually just press the "ask coaches" button a few times.)

Well, now I am in a great online league and we are about to start our 2nd season. Spring training point allotments are due today and I need some advice!

I have heard about taking points from "power" and putting them to "average" on a player who is not much of a power hitter anyway. Other than that, I haven't heard too much about batters. What do you do? Please let me know. (One specific question -- If I take 1 point from the "fielding" category, does the player's range usually go down?)

For pitchers, I have heard that perhaps it is best to leave all the allotments at "5"? What do you all think? (Is there a category that helps improve the "ERA" rating more than the others?)

Also ... for "prospects," while they're still developing, is it better to leave everything at "5"?

Please Help!!

Thanks,
Brad
Hartford Hobbits
BPLA

Ktulu · 04-02-2003, 05:34 PM

I never use the ask coaches button anymore. The suggestions they make seem way to drastic to me so I would rather play it safe and leave players at 5's and make minor adjustments.

For prospects I ususally always leave everything at 5 unless I see a glaring weakness that needs improvement. Also if they have a brilliant talent and a high talent rating I sometimes take a point away from that area and put it in something else.

For hitters I usually look at what I expect their role to be. So if I see a guy with speed that I think will be a good top of the order batter I will usually take points away from power and put them into average etc. Generally I never take points away from fielding but I havent really experimented to see what the effects are.

Pitchers I almost always leave at straight 5's with the exception of SP with low endurance and any pitcher with really bad control. Sometimes I also take away endurance points for closers if they have a C or better endurance rating. Actually there are some seasons where I dont even go to the pitchers section but that has more to do with the TEDIOUS interface.

So I guess you could say that I play it safe most of the time with a few exceptions... Im sure there are others out there who have experimented more than myself.

goroyals · 04-02-2003, 05:46 PM

Thanks, ktulu.

I am also in this league, and I too needed some advice!

I Am The Game · 04-02-2003, 06:18 PM

If you have a player that has very little power, I'd take it away and go somewhere else, if you need him at the top of the lineup or bottom. I.E. Rafeal Furcal (of his rookie season), good hitter leadoff man not a power hitter, take away 3 or 4 his power points and distribute them in other places, or take away all 5 of his power points and teach him a new position like CF (gives you nice flexability).

Slant · 04-03-2003, 12:32 AM

I like to develop hitters into specific rolse. For example, I had one hitter who has Good, Average, Brilliant, and every season I took 5 away from Power and put them in Hitting and sometimes Plate Patience. Now that he's in the majors he has 9-0-9 ratings and gets on base more than half of the time.

Another guy was Good Brilliant Briliiant, and I figured, he can't hit so many homeruns if he gets walked a lot so every year I took away 5 from plate patience and put it in contact. I don't have in the majors yet but he's now Brilliant Brilliant Average, which IMO is better.

Also, if a player is E in any position thats not 1B, or D in 2B/SS/CF/RF, I take away all their defense and give them points in hitting. I ALWAYS take away the defense from young 1B and then reteach it to them in the minors cuz 1B is the easiest pos to learn.

bauermj · 04-03-2003, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Slant
Another guy was Good Brilliant Briliiant, and I figured, he can't hit so many homeruns if he gets walked a lot so every year I took away 5 from plate patience and put it in contact. I don't have in the majors yet but he's now Brilliant Brilliant Average, which IMO is better.

You really think him taking a lot of walks prevented him from hitting HRs? Im not sure im following on that logic...Can you explain a little better?

I Am The Game · 04-03-2003, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bauermj
You really think him taking a lot of walks prevented him from hitting HRs? Im not sure im following on that logic...Can you explain a little better?

Basically, he is referring to the logic that walking more takes away ABs, therefore more chances for HRs. So if you walk less you'll get more chances to put the play, and therefore more chances for that ball to go out. He will hit more HRs, but the Batting Average might get slighted a little, and obviously the walks will be cut down by a good amount.

bauermj · 04-03-2003, 03:46 AM

I mean, i guess i understand what he is saying, i just don't see how it would be an all that desirable outcome.

Lets say you have Brilliant talent in HR. Maybe 50 HR in 550 AB. That is 1 HR / 11 AB. Lets say Brilliant BB talent should develop to 80 BB / 550 AB whereas Average BB talent should develop to 55 BB/ 550 AB.

Are those 25-30 LESS BBs, worth possibly 2-3 more HRs per 550 ABs?

I Am The Game · 04-03-2003, 04:22 AM

I don't think so myself. I like to have a lot of baserunners on at all times. Walks drive up the pitch count.

Springtime_for_Hunter · 04-03-2003, 04:24 AM

I haven't experimented with this yet, but I've been thinking it might be advantageous to put all 20 points into Defense for draft picks. I expect it would lengthen their hitting development but not stunt it (since talent doesn't change because of ST), while giving them a better chance to make the team defensively. Anybody tried this?

jameyhammock · 04-03-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Springtime_for_Hunter
I haven't experimented with this yet, but I've been thinking it might be advantageous to put all 20 points into Defense for draft picks. I expect it would lengthen their hitting development but not stunt it (since talent doesn't change because of ST), while giving them a better chance to make the team defensively. Anybody tried this?

Are you sure that talent doesn't change because of spring training? I know I've seen talent changes (both increases and decreases) in spring training. And in the cases of talent decreases, I think it's always been in areas in which I allocated a low number of points. I can't be sure that the spring training allocations are the cause, but that's what I suspect is the reason.

As far as improving defense goes, allocating 8 points to defense is enough to almost always improve the defensive range by one rating. Has anyone ever seen a defensive rating increase by more than one in a single spring training?

68tigers84 · 04-03-2003, 11:21 AM

Ask Billy Beane and the Athletics about your walk theories. Having selective hitters, even power hitters is immeasurable (bad word in a baseball forum) because of all the positives it gives your team and the negatives it gives the other team. Selective hitters drive up pitch counts so even stud pitchers can't finish games. All things being equal, I draft guys with high discipline talent (I'm using reduced ratings).

Springtime_for_Hunter · 04-03-2003, 12:23 PM

I see talent changes all the time - I've run a <i>lot</i> of experimental STs under OOTP4, and it doesn't seem like they show up any more often for any method. I get them all the time using all 5s.

Previously all I've tried with defense is giving 15 points to defense and learn a new position to guys who will never make the majors as anything but defensive specialists. This is a Bad Idea. It seems it's a complete waste of the extra points to defense - and players don't learn positions as well in ST as they do during the year.

ctorg · 04-03-2003, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Springtime_for_Hunter
I see talent changes all the time - I've run a <i>lot</i> of experimental STs under OOTP4, and it doesn't seem like they show up any more often for any method. I get them all the time using all 5s.

Previously all I've tried with defense is giving 15 points to defense and learn a new position to guys who will never make the majors as anything but defensive specialists. This is a Bad Idea. It seems it's a complete waste of the extra points to defense - and players don't learn positions as well in ST as they do during the year.

Are you saying that learning the new position is a waste of time or putting the points to defense is a waste of time? I'm assuming it's the former, in which case I agree, for the most part. The only time I would teach a guy a new position in ST is if I have 2 good players at one position who are veterans (i.e. won't be in the minors) and I need one to fill another position that doesn't require good defense (like 1b). Kind of like what the Mets did with Todd Zeile.

clarnzz · 04-03-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bauermj
I mean, i guess i understand what he is saying, i just don't see how it would be an all that desirable outcome.

Lets say you have Brilliant talent in HR. Maybe 50 HR in 550 AB. That is 1 HR / 11 AB. Lets say Brilliant BB talent should develop to 80 BB / 550 AB whereas Average BB talent should develop to 55 BB/ 550 AB.

Are those 25-30 LESS BBs, worth possibly 2-3 more HRs per 550 ABs?

It doesnt just mean more home runs, it means more hits, doubles and triples as well.

As for spring training don't sweat it too much I dont think it matters too much long as you dont do anything crazy. If you wanna make a slap hitter take off all his power and realocate it. Excellent strategy for middle infielders as you can scrap power and bring their range up to A from even E level before they reach the big leagues if you work on it.

Ive seen tests that show that catcher range and first base range has very little outcome on wins, so I would scrap those as well and re-allocate those points. (Also results in cheaper contract demands)

For pitchers I used to sneak from velocity and try to improve a pitchers stuff or control in attempts to turn hopeless cases into serviceable pitchers. If a pitcher is E duration and you dont care about raising it you can take it all the way to 0 as it cant get any lower and re-allocate those points. Do not take points away from stuff for any reason and I dont think taking it off control is a very good idea either.

Hope some of that helps. There are many good discussions on spring training archived here so you could probably find alot of info from a search.

Springtime_for_Hunter · 04-03-2003, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Are you saying that learning the new position is a waste of time or putting the points to defense is a waste of time? I'm assuming it's the former

Actually, both in combination. I can see situations where either would be useful on its own. But as far as I can tell, the point increase only goes toward the new position, which is usually not what I'm going for when building a defensive specialist. I wish there was a way to get them to work on their fielding at more than one position.

ctorg · 04-03-2003, 02:05 PM

I actually think that the way the game handles fielding in general needs to be fixed up. For one, it should keep yearly stats like it does for everything else. For another, a guy shouldn't be able to have an A at 3b and an E at SS. It doesn't make much sense. Fielding range is one thing, and familiarity with a position is another. And fielding pct. never gets any better or worse.

I understand that fielding is the hardest aspect of the game to represent statistically, but these basic things should be looked into, in my opinion.

bauermj · 04-03-2003, 02:12 PM

also, i feel the game should produce more defensive specialists. There are too few Craig Counsels created. Very rarely have i seen a player with 1B, 2B, SS, 3B range.

CubsFan · 04-03-2003, 02:14 PM

Slightly off-topic--

What, if any, changes were made in Spring Training for OOTP5, as compared to OOTP4?

clarnzz · 04-03-2003, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CubsFan
Slightly off-topic--

What, if any, changes were made in Spring Training for OOTP5, as compared to OOTP4?

I dont think any.

I think it more than likely had something to do with releasing the game as it was or the game not coming out till June with all the features they had planned.

Im just guessing here, but I think your probably not going to see any spring training changes till OOTP6. That doesnt mean Markus wont have something in their next update, but thats just my guess.

04-02-2003, 05:16 PM	#1
sfgiants2003 Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 13	Need Spring Training Advice!!! I have played OOTP since version 4 and I love the game! However, in my anxiousness to move on to each successive season, I have never done much with the Spring Training points. (I usually just press the "ask coaches" button a few times.) Well, now I am in a great online league and we are about to start our 2nd season. Spring training point allotments are due today and I need some advice! I have heard about taking points from "power" and putting them to "average" on a player who is not much of a power hitter anyway. Other than that, I haven't heard too much about batters. What do you do? Please let me know. (One specific question -- If I take 1 point from the "fielding" category, does the player's range usually go down?) For pitchers, I have heard that perhaps it is best to leave all the allotments at "5"? What do you all think? (Is there a category that helps improve the "ERA" rating more than the others?) Also ... for "prospects," while they're still developing, is it better to leave everything at "5"? Please Help!! Thanks, Brad Hartford Hobbits BPLA

04-02-2003, 05:34 PM	#2
Ktulu Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: BC Posts: 4,506	I never use the ask coaches button anymore. The suggestions they make seem way to drastic to me so I would rather play it safe and leave players at 5's and make minor adjustments. For prospects I ususally always leave everything at 5 unless I see a glaring weakness that needs improvement. Also if they have a brilliant talent and a high talent rating I sometimes take a point away from that area and put it in something else. For hitters I usually look at what I expect their role to be. So if I see a guy with speed that I think will be a good top of the order batter I will usually take points away from power and put them into average etc. Generally I never take points away from fielding but I havent really experimented to see what the effects are. Pitchers I almost always leave at straight 5's with the exception of SP with low endurance and any pitcher with really bad control. Sometimes I also take away endurance points for closers if they have a C or better endurance rating. Actually there are some seasons where I dont even go to the pitchers section but that has more to do with the TEDIOUS interface. So I guess you could say that I play it safe most of the time with a few exceptions... Im sure there are others out there who have experimented more than myself. __________________ "The ice is getting even more thinner, my friend!"

04-03-2003, 12:32 AM	#5
Slant Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 257	I like to develop hitters into specific rolse. For example, I had one hitter who has Good, Average, Brilliant, and every season I took 5 away from Power and put them in Hitting and sometimes Plate Patience. Now that he's in the majors he has 9-0-9 ratings and gets on base more than half of the time. Another guy was Good Brilliant Briliiant, and I figured, he can't hit so many homeruns if he gets walked a lot so every year I took away 5 from plate patience and put it in contact. I don't have in the majors yet but he's now Brilliant Brilliant Average, which IMO is better. Also, if a player is E in any position thats not 1B, or D in 2B/SS/CF/RF, I take away all their defense and give them points in hitting. I ALWAYS take away the defense from young 1B and then reteach it to them in the minors cuz 1B is the easiest pos to learn. __________________ Boiler Room Project

04-03-2003, 03:46 AM	#8
bauermj Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 179	I mean, i guess i understand what he is saying, i just don't see how it would be an all that desirable outcome. Lets say you have Brilliant talent in HR. Maybe 50 HR in 550 AB. That is 1 HR / 11 AB. Lets say Brilliant BB talent should develop to 80 BB / 550 AB whereas Average BB talent should develop to 55 BB/ 550 AB. Are those 25-30 LESS BBs, worth possibly 2-3 more HRs per 550 ABs? __________________ Commissioner / Cubs Owner Rounding-Third Baseball League (R3BL) www.rounding-third.com Indianapolis Outlaws PFBL Houston Astros Massena

04-03-2003, 04:24 AM	#10
Springtime_for_Hunter All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 846	I haven't experimented with this yet, but I've been thinking it might be advantageous to put all 20 points into Defense for draft picks. I expect it would lengthen their hitting development but not stunt it (since talent doesn't change because of ST), while giving them a better chance to make the team defensively. Anybody tried this? __________________ "Only the utterly impossible, the inexpressibly fantastic, can ever be plausible again" Red Smith, New York Herald-Tribune, October 4, 1951

04-02-2003, 05:46 PM	#3
goroyals All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 930	Thanks, ktulu. I am also in this league, and I too needed some advice!

04-02-2003, 06:18 PM	#4
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	If you have a player that has very little power, I'd take it away and go somewhere else, if you need him at the top of the lineup or bottom. I.E. Rafeal Furcal (of his rookie season), good hitter leadoff man not a power hitter, take away 3 or 4 his power points and distribute them in other places, or take away all 5 of his power points and teach him a new position like CF (gives you nice flexability).

04-03-2003, 04:22 AM	#9
I Am The Game All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Red Sox Nation Posts: 691	I don't think so myself. I like to have a lot of baserunners on at all times. Walks drive up the pitch count.

04-03-2003, 11:21 AM	#12
68tigers84 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Biloxi, MS Posts: 24	Ask Billy Beane and the Athletics about your walk theories. Having selective hitters, even power hitters is immeasurable (bad word in a baseball forum) because of all the positives it gives your team and the negatives it gives the other team. Selective hitters drive up pitch counts so even stud pitchers can't finish games. All things being equal, I draft guys with high discipline talent (I'm using reduced ratings).

04-03-2003, 12:23 PM	#13
Springtime_for_Hunter All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 846	I see talent changes all the time - I've run a <i>lot</i> of experimental STs under OOTP4, and it doesn't seem like they show up any more often for any method. I get them all the time using all 5s. Previously all I've tried with defense is giving 15 points to defense and learn a new position to guys who will never make the majors as anything but defensive specialists. This is a Bad Idea. It seems it's a complete waste of the extra points to defense - and players don't learn positions as well in ST as they do during the year. __________________ "Only the utterly impossible, the inexpressibly fantastic, can ever be plausible again" Red Smith, New York Herald-Tribune, October 4, 1951 Last edited by Springtime_for_Hunter; 04-03-2003 at 12:25 PM.

04-03-2003, 02:05 PM	#17
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Queens, NY Posts: 9,848	I actually think that the way the game handles fielding in general needs to be fixed up. For one, it should keep yearly stats like it does for everything else. For another, a guy shouldn't be able to have an A at 3b and an E at SS. It doesn't make much sense. Fielding range is one thing, and familiarity with a position is another. And fielding pct. never gets any better or worse. I understand that fielding is the hardest aspect of the game to represent statistically, but these basic things should be looked into, in my opinion. __________________ My music "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

04-03-2003, 02:12 PM	#18
bauermj Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 179	also, i feel the game should produce more defensive specialists. There are too few Craig Counsels created. Very rarely have i seen a player with 1B, 2B, SS, 3B range. __________________ Commissioner / Cubs Owner Rounding-Third Baseball League (R3BL) www.rounding-third.com Indianapolis Outlaws PFBL Houston Astros Massena

04-03-2003, 02:14 PM	#19
CubsFan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 150	Slightly off-topic-- What, if any, changes were made in Spring Training for OOTP5, as compared to OOTP4?