Making room for new draft classes

dmastinsc · 01-22-2012, 12:47 AM

I've played a few seasons and I can't seem to figure out a good system for making room for new draft classes.

My system so far is:
1. Drop older players who aren't getting playing time or progressing
2. Drop older players who are playing a lot but are not progressing at all and can be replaced by a younger player ready for promotion who should still be able to help keep the team competitive.

Even if I could clear out 25-30 players like this, most rookies are still sitting in rookie ball the next year round, so its not like I can just drop them but I can't promote them either because they aren't ready.

Wondering what some of you may do each season to make the necessary room but also not turn your farm system upside down with so many new players.

Curve Ball Dave · 01-22-2012, 04:10 PM

I do a purge every June before the draft.

The simple question is this: Will this player be in the majors for my team one day? If the answer is "no" he's gone. That means the 25 year olds in Class A are gone. Kids who were not good enough to start in Rookie or Short Season A, and didn't do anything when they did play, are gone. Career minor leaguers in AA who never put up any decent numbers are gone.

And so on.

I have no hard and fast rules. The lower the minor league level a guy is at and the less experience he has the more benefit of the doubt I'll give him. I also do a purge during the off season. The June draft means the beginning of some careers and the end of others. That's how it is in real life, and that's how it is in the game.

Ambermonk · 01-22-2012, 09:22 PM

In my league I have 'trade draft choices' turned on, so each year I trade my 'extras' to the lowest rated teams for their high draft choices.

How well does this work? In my last draft I had the first ten draft choices! You can do a lot with the top 10 picks in the draft.

simcrazy · 01-22-2012, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambermonk

In my league I have 'trade draft choices' turned on, so each year I trade my 'extras' to the lowest rated teams for their high draft choices.

How well does this work? In my last draft I had the first ten draft choices! You can do a lot with the top 10 picks in the draft.

Ha, definition gaming the system.

JMDurron · 01-22-2012, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambermonk

In my league I have 'trade draft choices' turned on, so each year I trade my 'extras' to the lowest rated teams for their high draft choices.

How well does this work? In my last draft I had the first ten draft choices! You can do a lot with the top 10 picks in the draft.

You must have better "extras" than I normally do, I don't get nearly the return on my trades that you appear to. I will trade veterans on my MLB squad who are ready to be replaced with top prospects in order to get those high picks, though.

Or, I suppose you might be more cutthroat about picking out who your "extras" are.

mikestack · 01-23-2012, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

I do a purge every June before the draft.

The simple question is this: Will this player be in the majors for my team one day? If the answer is "no" he's gone. That means the 25 year olds in Class A are gone. Kids who were not good enough to start in Rookie or Short Season A, and didn't do anything when they did play, are gone. Career minor leaguers in AA who never put up any decent numbers are gone.

And so on.

I have no hard and fast rules. The lower the minor league level a guy is at and the less experience he has the more benefit of the doubt I'll give him. I also do a purge during the off season. The June draft means the beginning of some careers and the end of others. That's how it is in real life, and that's how it is in the game.

I have a similar system, though I do mine when I'm setting the lineups for all levels after spring training. Generally, I can any player who is or will turn 25 who hasn't made it to AA and any player who hasn't made full season ball prior to being rule 5 eligible. In AA and AAA, if I have more than I need for my roster, I tend to drop by age, though there are occasional guys (e.g. the fourth outfielder who doesn't stick in the majors but who I can always count on if I get lots of injuries....) I make exceptions for.

Curve Ball Dave · 01-23-2012, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikestack

I have a similar system, though I do mine when I'm setting the lineups for all levels after spring training. Generally, I can any player who is or will turn 25 who hasn't made it to AA and any player who hasn't made full season ball prior to being rule 5 eligible. In AA and AAA, if I have more than I need for my roster, I tend to drop by age, though there are occasional guys (e.g. the fourth outfielder who doesn't stick in the majors but who I can always count on if I get lots of injuries....) I make exceptions for.

I'll take a look at the rosters after Spring Training and trim as need be. Borderline guys will get the benefit of the doubt and then I take another look before the draft. That gives them two months to prove they still belongs in professional baseball.

Typically a Rule 5 eligible player who is still in A ball is a goner. Guys in AAA tend to be safer than others because that roster is an extension of the big league club. Anyone is an injury away from being called up. However, I recently had a situation where the AAA squad was full of guys who were going to be marginal major leaguers at best and my AA team was full of good prospects with nowhere to go. I ended up cutting about 80% of my AAA players and those guys in AA who were stuck were promoted to take those spots.

Some cuts are easy, others are not. It's tough cutting loose a guy I drafted out of high school who had so much promise and I had in the system for five or six seasons. These are guys who I keep waiting to break through and reach their potential but I can only wait so long for them. In the end, they are just another draft pick that never panned out.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 01-23-2012, 01:39 AM

For me, it's really up or out. I look at their numbers and if they haven't done as well as I think they need to do advance to the next level after one season, they may get one more season to prove themselves. But they are fair game if I need to make room for new blood and they don't pass the "future MLBer" smell test, like Dave said.

Biggio509 · 01-23-2012, 01:59 AM

One thing I do is impose real world service time limits as a house rule. I may have to look them up I have been playing 19th century so much that the service limits are a bit fuzzy right now but I think is it like this.
Rookie no over 2 years experience allowed
SA no one over 4 years experience allowed
low A no one with over 5 years
High A no one with over 6 years. IIRC.

I am a bit fuzzy as if to rookie maybe 3 years now. At one time it was 2 but the limit may have been raised when the high A limit went from 5 to 6.

This gives hard limits on how to cut. If a guy has 2 years experience and is not ready for SA he is gone. 5 years and not ready for low A gone. 6 years and not ready for high A gone. This makes a lot of auto cuts that means less real decisions have to be made. This works out to be not much difference from the does he look like he will be in my org test but hard time limits on prospect development. Note, a 23 or 24 y/o or worse a 27 or 28 y/o drafted out of college is probably not going to ever make a big league roster if he isn't ready for AA by this point. You can still have late bloomers but they have to at least advance enough to be on your SA team in 3 years. I still get some late bloomers but most had some injuries few guys who sat in SA for 4 years get to the majors using these rules. They are usually A or AA roster filler.

I make the decisions at 3 points.
1. Right after the playoffs I promote all guys who have hit service limits to the next level. Also promote guys who have had good enough seasons to warrant a shot at the next level.
2. Right after ST. Look again as I move guys down to AAA and make cuts so A and above are in roster limits. I cut the worst surplus players.
3. After the draft. If SA and/or rookie are over roster limits I cut older guys to give prospects a chance. If I have some open slots due to injuries and promotions I might look at some undrafted free agents. I try not go over 30 even with that many it is hard to get guys enough playing time.

Injuries usually get filled with temporary promotions but sometimes I sing FA for the appropriate level if I don't feel I have anyone ready. I sometimes just promoted a scrub who shouldn't be at that level and doesn't seem to have potential so I have someone with a pulse as a back up. It seems even with normal injuries I have to sign some FAs to keep enough players in rookie after promotions due to injuries.

Chicagofan76 · 01-23-2012, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

I do a purge every June before the draft.

The simple question is this: Will this player be in the majors for my team one day? If the answer is "no" he's gone. That means the 25 year olds in Class A are gone. Kids who were not good enough to start in Rookie or Short Season A, and didn't do anything when they did play, are gone. Career minor leaguers in AA who never put up any decent numbers are gone.

And so on.

I have no hard and fast rules. The lower the minor league level a guy is at and the less experience he has the more benefit of the doubt I'll give him. I also do a purge during the off season. The June draft means the beginning of some careers and the end of others. That's how it is in real life, and that's how it is in the game.

Pretty much the same thing I do, although in Solo leagues vs online I have more patience for guys in my solo leagues.

mankle · 01-23-2012, 02:21 PM

Replying to Biggio509. . . . I saw this online...Minor League Rosters

It's a little more detailed that what you wrote, but you're pretty much bang on....

Ambermonk · 01-23-2012, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMDurron

You must have better "extras" than I normally do, I don't get nearly the return on my trades that you appear to. I will trade veterans on my MLB squad who are ready to be replaced with top prospects in order to get those high picks, though.

Actually, it goes a bit deeper than that. Sometimes I can trade a player for a team's 2 or 3 top picks. With all these top-flight extra picks in my draft it gives me a lot of extra raw material to develop. I guess I get about 15 extra players in the first 2 rounds.

Three of four years down the line, players who are good (but not quite good enough) get traded for that year's top draft picks. My Triple-A team is probably good enough to lead the division in my major league. As a general rule, if a player on my Triple-A team is over 30 but can't crack the 'Bigs,' then he is a good candidate for trade.

The only frustrating part is that sometimes I will lose a game to one of the players that I traded away. It is gratifying however to see a number of my traded players show up on the (computer generated) All-Star list!

01-22-2012, 12:47 AM	#1
dmastinsc Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12	Making room for new draft classes I've played a few seasons and I can't seem to figure out a good system for making room for new draft classes. My system so far is: 1. Drop older players who aren't getting playing time or progressing 2. Drop older players who are playing a lot but are not progressing at all and can be replaced by a younger player ready for promotion who should still be able to help keep the team competitive. Even if I could clear out 25-30 players like this, most rookies are still sitting in rookie ball the next year round, so its not like I can just drop them but I can't promote them either because they aren't ready. Wondering what some of you may do each season to make the necessary room but also not turn your farm system upside down with so many new players.

01-22-2012, 04:10 PM	#2
Curve Ball Dave Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,359	I do a purge every June before the draft. The simple question is this: Will this player be in the majors for my team one day? If the answer is "no" he's gone. That means the 25 year olds in Class A are gone. Kids who were not good enough to start in Rookie or Short Season A, and didn't do anything when they did play, are gone. Career minor leaguers in AA who never put up any decent numbers are gone. And so on. I have no hard and fast rules. The lower the minor league level a guy is at and the less experience he has the more benefit of the doubt I'll give him. I also do a purge during the off season. The June draft means the beginning of some careers and the end of others. That's how it is in real life, and that's how it is in the game. __________________ "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing"-Warren Spahn.

01-22-2012, 09:22 PM	#3
Ambermonk All Star Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Morro Bay, CA Posts: 1,257	In my league I have 'trade draft choices' turned on, so each year I trade my 'extras' to the lowest rated teams for their high draft choices. How well does this work? In my last draft I had the first ten draft choices! You can do a lot with the top 10 picks in the draft. __________________ *I cast this question into your soul, that I might know how deep it is* - Friedrich Nietzsche It often shows a fine command of language - to say nothing! - Bertrand Russell

01-23-2012, 01:39 AM	#8
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,119	For me, it's really up or out. I look at their numbers and if they haven't done as well as I think they need to do advance to the next level after one season, they may get one more season to prove themselves. But they are fair game if I need to make room for new blood and they don't pass the "future MLBer" smell test, like Dave said. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason Last edited by Cinnamon J. Scudworth; 01-23-2012 at 01:46 AM.

01-23-2012, 01:59 AM	#9
Biggio509 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,027	One thing I do is impose real world service time limits as a house rule. I may have to look them up I have been playing 19th century so much that the service limits are a bit fuzzy right now but I think is it like this. Rookie no over 2 years experience allowed SA no one over 4 years experience allowed low A no one with over 5 years High A no one with over 6 years. IIRC. I am a bit fuzzy as if to rookie maybe 3 years now. At one time it was 2 but the limit may have been raised when the high A limit went from 5 to 6. This gives hard limits on how to cut. If a guy has 2 years experience and is not ready for SA he is gone. 5 years and not ready for low A gone. 6 years and not ready for high A gone. This makes a lot of auto cuts that means less real decisions have to be made. This works out to be not much difference from the does he look like he will be in my org test but hard time limits on prospect development. Note, a 23 or 24 y/o or worse a 27 or 28 y/o drafted out of college is probably not going to ever make a big league roster if he isn't ready for AA by this point. You can still have late bloomers but they have to at least advance enough to be on your SA team in 3 years. I still get some late bloomers but most had some injuries few guys who sat in SA for 4 years get to the majors using these rules. They are usually A or AA roster filler. I make the decisions at 3 points. 1. Right after the playoffs I promote all guys who have hit service limits to the next level. Also promote guys who have had good enough seasons to warrant a shot at the next level. 2. Right after ST. Look again as I move guys down to AAA and make cuts so A and above are in roster limits. I cut the worst surplus players. 3. After the draft. If SA and/or rookie are over roster limits I cut older guys to give prospects a chance. If I have some open slots due to injuries and promotions I might look at some undrafted free agents. I try not go over 30 even with that many it is hard to get guys enough playing time. Injuries usually get filled with temporary promotions but sometimes I sing FA for the appropriate level if I don't feel I have anyone ready. I sometimes just promoted a scrub who shouldn't be at that level and doesn't seem to have potential so I have someone with a pulse as a back up. It seems even with normal injuries I have to sign some FAs to keep enough players in rookie after promotions due to injuries. Last edited by Biggio509; 01-23-2012 at 02:10 AM.

01-23-2012, 02:21 PM	#11
mankle Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 122	Replying to Biggio509. . . . I saw this online...Minor League Rosters It's a little more detailed that what you wrote, but you're pretty much bang on....