Will this guy ever amount to anything?

[ink625]

He's 25 years old with High Work Ethic. I keep hoping he'll put it all together all of a sudden but he just can't seem to do it. He gets a lot of strikeouts but walks a boat load of hitters and is very prone to the long ball. I keep extending him one year at a time but I may let him walk this time. He's only asking for 1.2 million so he wouldn't break the bank, but I just can't decide. So, what does everyone think?

[SandMan]

I don't think that this guy will ever be of any true value. I would personally use him in the bullpen as a 2 or 3 reliever. He walks way too many guys to be effective as a starter. The upside is that he doesn't allow many hits. This is a hard one to determine if he is going to improve on his control but at his current age it looks like he has maxed out his ratings and will not reach his potential.

He is cheap for a reason. The AI knows that he is not a good pitcher and has him paid at the value that he is. At only 1.2M I would keep him as a reliever because of the excellent stuff rating.

[Bluenoser]

Will this guy ever amount to anything - Honestly, nobody can tell you the answer to that. He might and he might not, and that's about as good a guess as you'll get.

[ink625]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Will this guy ever amount to anything - Honestly, nobody can tell you the answer to that. He might and he might not, and that's about as good a guess as you'll get.

I understand no one can give a definitive answer. I'm just looking for opinions from more experienced players since I've only been playing since OOTP 10.

[MimesisBTG]

Given I don't know much about the makeup of your team or front office finances, but assuming that you have the resources to do it, I would keep him around a while longer. With his stuff, it would be a shame if you lost him just before he broke out. If you have to put him in the bullpen, then so be it. He might also be able to net you something in trade if you want to move him. Just my .

I love these kinds of topics btw! Be sure to let us know how it turns out.

[dickysty]

From my experince with fictional players he's pretty much maxed out. player development after 25 years old is rare in this game.

[84Hammy]

I agree with making him a reliever--long relief and maybe 3rd middle reliever. He may be able to go an inning or two with minimal damage, or come in and get a key strike out.

[Biggio509]

Not only is development usually about maxed by 25 if the guy has been in your org for a while your scouting is about as accurate as it gets. Your scout is giving you something close to true potential. The only hope would be a random talent change bingo. Not only that but do you really want to pay 1.2 mil for a guy who just had an ERA close to 6 in AAA! Well mabye that is a ML team, I am so used to playing Houston I saw OKL, thought Oklahoma and was thinking OKC their AAA affiliate.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by ink625

I understand no one can give a definitive answer. I'm just looking for opinions from more experienced players since I've only been playing since OOTP 10.

That's fine, but it doesn't matter how much experience you've got. I've played every version of OOTP since 1. Nobody can tell you if he's done or not.

I've seen guys max out at 25, 24, 23, etc etc. I've seen guys get bumps at 26, 27, 28 etc etc. It's impossible to know if he's maxed out or not. Only time will answer that question.

[Jagger]

Unless you have someone better to fill his slot, I would hold on to him until I see a negative change in his potential.

[ink625]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

That's fine, but it doesn't matter how much experience you've got. I've played every version of OOTP since 1. Nobody can tell you if he's done or not.

I know no one can tell me for a fact whether he's done. Anyone with lots of experience, can however, make an educated guess based on that experience. With that said, if based on your experience, you think it's too much of a crapshoot to give a solid resign or release opinion, then that's fine and I appreciate your input.

[legofarley]

It looks like he might be due for another bounce back year. His ERA seems to drop the following year, probably out of embarassment, after putting up a 5.00+ ERA. Sign him for another year - if his ERA creeps up around 5.00 again trade at the deadline for someone more consistent.

It's possible that this guy just doesn't mesh with his pitching coach. If you let him go be prepared for the possibility that a different pitching coach from a different team might get this guy to improve. As usual, no promises on anything though.

[Left-handed Badger]

Well, he reminds me a little of a lefty I got right now with KC. who is 26 (my guy has better movement). led league in fewest H/9, and most k/9. Also had most BB/9. I've gotten away with it via great defense when they do make contact, and he gives up few HRs. He also had a ridiculous BA from lefty opponents they hit something like .150 off him.

Course, one epic game I took him out after 5 because he got fatigued. He had a no-hitter, but had 8 BBs and 3 HBPs (9 Ks, 2 induced DPs). He left with a 2-1 lead. We held on. (not the no-hitter though). His ERA is ok, but nothing great. I am tempted to move him to the bullpen (Most of my relievers are high-80s throwing groundball inducers, his 99 MPH Ks would make for a good change of pace.)


I also have a prospect like that too. He couldnt make it out of A-ball as a starter, I converted him to relief and he made it all the way to a Sept. callup (though he probably will start in AAA next season)

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

Well, he reminds me a little of a lefty I got right now with KC. who is 26 (my guy has better movement). led league in fewest H/9, and most k/9. Also had most BB/9. I've gotten away with it via great defense when they do make contact, and he gives up few HRs. He also had a ridiculous BA from lefty opponents they hit something like .150 off him. (note: and his 3 pitches are Fastball, Cutter, Slider, too. Though in his case the Cutter is better than the SLider)

Course, one epic game I took him out after 5 because he got fatigued. He had a no-hitter, but had 8 BBs and 3 HBPs (9 Ks, 2 induced DPs). He left with a 2-1 lead. We held on. (not the no-hitter though). His ERA is ok, but nothing great. I am tempted to move him to the bullpen (Most of my relievers are high-80s throwing groundball inducers, his 99 MPH Ks would make for a good change of pace.)


I also have a prospect like that too. He couldnt make it out of A-ball as a starter, I converted him to relief and he made it all the way to a Sept. callup (though he probably will start in AAA next season)

Edited

[EvilGenius]

Have you tried trading him? If you can't get anyone to bite on him, then you have to ask yourself what the AI knows that you don't.

Personally, having a WHIP of 1.60 is way, way too high to be on my team. This guy is never going to give you a 1-2-3 inning. So the hits that he gives up are going to have men on base much too frequently. His pitch count is always going to be through the roof. This definitely will not work as a starter when you can't just pull him at the first sign of trouble.

There is always someone you can pull out of the minors to give you a WHIP of 1.6 and an ERA of 5.69. This is one of those times you have to throw out the scouting report. Whatever this guy may be capable of, he's not producing it on the field. This guy is performing at the level of a one star pitcher. That being the case, paying this guy anything over league minimum means he's dead weight to your team. If the replacement player is just as good and only costs league minimum, why on earth would you not just take the replacement player? (In fact, I could ask this question to a lot of major league teams)

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by SandMan

I don't think that this guy will ever be of any true value. I would personally use him in the bullpen as a 2 or 3 reliever. He walks way too many guys to be effective as a starter. The upside is that he doesn't allow many hits. This is a hard one to determine if he is going to improve on his control but at his current age it looks like he has maxed out his ratings and will not reach his potential.

He is cheap for a reason. The AI knows that he is not a good pitcher and has him paid at the value that he is. At only 1.2M I would keep him as a reliever because of the excellent stuff rating.

I wouldn't even use him as a 2 or 3 reliever. He is pure mop-up role. (But then again, my team has the best bullpen in my league.)

The pitcher I use for mop-up, makes about a million dollars, and is able to pitch 60-70 innings a season. He's by far the worst pitcher on my team, but he keeps the rest of my 'pen rested in a blowout, and gives my starters a break from having to go too deep into games too often.

So in answer to the OP: Use him in a mop-up role for a while. See if he improves. If he does not, keep him as a mop-up reliever until either he demands too much, or blows too many large leads. He's also effective if you are already losing a game by a large amount. Better to rest your other decent pitchers for sunnier day.

[JC769]

I would pay him the $1.2Mil (maybe you can extend him for about $900-950k with some incentives for IP, All Star, etc) and move him to the bullpen. Even if it's just a mop up role, hope he can become someone you can count on as a long man, or maybe even a setup guy.

Plus, having someone in your pen with the ability to go 6-7 innings in case of a starter needing to miss a start or two is always valuable.

[Mike Donlin]

If your finances are comparable to present-day MLB finances, I would sign him and move him to the bullpen, as others are suggesting. He is not a long-term option in the bullpen--you can pay others less to mop up--but you might as well take a 1.2 million dollar risk to see if his control rises over the next year.

By age 26, though, he is no longer considered a prospect, and it is doubtful that his control will rise much more.

It is a good 1.2 million dollar risk, but if by this time next year he hasn't dropped his walk-rate, cut bait on him.

[Vinny P.]

Originally Posted by Mike Donlin

If your finances are comparable to present-day MLB finances, I would sign him and move him to the bullpen, as others are suggesting. He is not a long-term option in the bullpen--you can pay others less to mop up--but you might as well take a 1.2 million dollar risk to see if his control rises over the next year.

By age 26, though, he is no longer considered a prospect, and it is doubtful that his control will rise much more.

It is a good 1.2 million dollar risk, but if by this time next year he hasn't dropped his walk-rate, cut bait on him.

Before he lets him go, I would see if he can resign him for something under a mil. He can still be a valuable addition to a triple-A club if it becomes a question of taking up too many roster spots. In case of an injury, you have someone you can call back up to fill in, rather than waste an option year on a young, blue-chip prospect.

[ink625]

I re-signed him on a 2 year contract for a lot less than he was asking and stuck him in the bullpen doing mop-up with a spot-start thrown in here or there. I also put him on a pitch count of 95 when he started and he pitched a few good games including:

7.1 IP
1 H
0 R
5 BB
8 K

&

7.0 IP
2 H
3 R
2 BB
12 K

He put up the following stats over the 2 years: