Unrealistic career progression

[Jim Bowden´s Jockstrap]

Before I point out what I consider is a potential bug, a little background.

I am something of a managerial sim addict and love career progression, starting off at some low league team and working my way up, clearly the CM/FM series is pretty much at the pinnacle of games when it comes to this particular gaming mode.

I realise ootp is a little behind in terms of FM for some of its features, however, I think most will agree that realism is certainly something the majority look for.

My current career is anything but realistic.

2007 - Start off with Brewers A league team, make playoffs, go 3-2 up in finals, game crashes, return to go out in the first round instead.

2008 - Promoted to Brewers AA affiliate.

2009 - After four tough injuries struggle, jump ship to A's triple A affiliate.

2010 - Miss the play-offs by one game no matter, wait around till November 1, apply and am accepted as NY Yankees GM.

Now much as though I back my own ability, one Single A play-off appearance in four years doesn't give me the NYY job in my humble opinion.

Baltimore, Anaheim and the Mets also happy to give me a job.

On the plus side, at least the GM won't be resetting my lineup ever game now

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Jim Bowden´s Jockstrap

Before I point out what I consider is a potential bug, a little background.

I am something of a managerial sim addict and love career progression, starting off at some low league team and working my way up, clearly the CM/FM series is pretty much at the pinnacle of games when it comes to this particular gaming mode.

I realise ootp is a little behind in terms of FM for some of its features, however, I think most will agree that realism is certainly something the majority look for.

My current career is anything but realistic.

2007 - Start off with Brewers A league team, make playoffs, go 3-2 up in finals, game crashes, return to go out in the first round instead.

2008 - Promoted to Brewers AA affiliate.

2009 - After four tough injuries struggle, jump ship to A's triple A affiliate.

2010 - Miss the play-offs by one game no matter, wait around till November 1, apply and am accepted as NY Yankees GM.

Now much as though I back my own ability, one Single A play-off appearance in four years doesn't give me the NYY job in my humble opinion.

Baltimore, Anaheim and the Mets also happy to give me a job.

On the plus side, at least the GM won't be resetting my lineup ever game now

The game has no idea who the NYY are other than they are "just another team" in your league.

[sixto]

Originally Posted by BruceM

The game has no idea who the NYY are other than they are "just another team" in your league.

Is that true, though? Perhaps if he began his career in a league with no history and random prestige, that would be true, but it is possible in OOTP 2007 to create a league history where the Yankees have won a couple dozen championships, at which point, you would think, the Yankees would cease to be just another team.

Certainly in FM, the game knows that Arsenal is Arsenal and Real Madrid is Real Madrid. If it's not part of the game right now to assign greater prestige to historically better teams, it wouldn't be a bad goal to have to add this aspect.

Irrespective of that, it is unlikely that a minor-league manager with just a handful of years of non-championship experience would get hired as a major-league GM with any team. Though for gameplay purposes, this sort of unreality may be wholly acceptable. YMMV.

[Scravenger]

It can be possible to just add an option in the league setup to put realistic manager career ? I would prefer to play maybe 10, 15 or even 20 years in the minors league to finally get an offer from the MLB.

And maybe that promotion be given by the same affiliate team that own the minor teams instead of every team of the league.

[Jim Bowden´s Jockstrap]

I wouldn't like to see the only chance of progression coming from inside an organisation, whilst rare managers may be given chances elsewhere.

Whilst the AI may or may not know whom the Yankees are, they do have a huge fanbase, large media contract etc, it would seem they share similar traits.

The Yankees were also the only team with a winning (82-80) record that offered me a job.

As a final thought, it would seem over the period between minor league and MLB off-seasons finishing jobs come up at irregular intervals.
I would be *highly* interested to see what happened had I realised that somewhere between October 20-November 1 with November 1 in my eyes the cut-off point, had I been offered a major league job sooner than 2010.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Scravenger

It can be possible to just add an option in the league setup to put realistic manager career ? I would prefer to play maybe 10, 15 or even 20 years in the minors league to finally get an offer from the MLB.

And maybe that promotion be given by the same affiliate team that own the minor teams instead of every team of the league.

You could always come up with your own house rules, such as - if you don't want to be offered a job at the ML Level for 10 to 20 years than don't accept any offers and don't apply for any.

There's always work arounds.

I think if the game was coded that you didn't get ML Level offers for 10 - 20 years, some people would be turned off by that quickly.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by sixto

Certainly in FM, the game knows that Arsenal is Arsenal and Real Madrid is Real Madrid. If it's not part of the game right now to assign greater prestige to historically better teams, it wouldn't be a bad goal to have to add this aspect.

Well, FM comes with real teams and real players, OOTP doesn't and isn't likely to for some time with all the legal fanagling going on over Player Name rights, not to mention getting rights to use real team names.

I think it works fine now, and there's always "House Rules" you can use as a work around.

[Gamblin79]

Originally Posted by BruceM

You could always come up with your own house rules, such as - if you don't want to be offered a job at the ML Level for 10 to 20 years than don't accept any offers and don't apply for any.

There's always work arounds.

I think if the game was coded that you didn't get ML Level offers for 10 - 20 years, some people would be turned off by that quickly.

I am planning on using house rules myself for when I can take certain jobs and thats fine, but as for people getting upset if they can't get top positions quickly, well, thats what commissioner setting is for.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Gamblin79

I am planning on using house rules myself for when I can take certain jobs and thats fine, but as for people getting upset if they can't get top positions quickly, well, thats what commissioner setting is for.

Umm, no that isn't what Commisioner setting is for. There's a difference between actually being hired as the manager and taking control of a team in Commish mode. Two different things altogether.

[sixto]

Originally Posted by BruceM

Well, FM comes with real teams and real players, OOTP doesn't and isn't likely to for some time with all the legal fanagling going on over Player Name rights, not to mention getting rights to use real team names.

I think it works fine now, and there's always "House Rules" you can use as a work around.

Yes, the game doesn't know the Yankees, but there is no reason it can't know what the best team in the league is - and it should know the best team in the league if there's going to be a realistic managerial career mode.

Wouldn't you agree that if the Portland Tattoo Artists are a perennial "major league" also-ran and the Oaxaca Gym Shorts are 20-time league champs, good gameplay would dictate that an inexperienced GM would receive a job offer from Portland before Oaxaca? And, for that matter, that AI GMs would be offered the top jobs (like Oaxaca) based on their experience within the history of the game, historical or fictional? The game does track managerial records now, so these data are available.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by sixto

Certainly in FM, the game knows that Arsenal is Arsenal and Real Madrid is Real Madrid. If it's not part of the game right now to assign greater prestige to historically better teams, it wouldn't be a bad goal to have to add this aspect.

On the one hand, I agree with this. And this same idea could be used for fictional leagues as well if someone wanted certain clubs to be the perennial powerhouses of their league. On the other hand, some folks don't want their historical (or fictional) leagues to operate that way. They'd prefer to have things on a more equal footing.

[akw4572]

Originally Posted by Jim Bowden´s Jockstrap

I wouldn't like to see the only chance of progression coming from inside an organisation, whilst rare managers may be given chances elsewhere.

Whilst the AI may or may not know whom the Yankees are, they do have a huge fanbase, large media contract etc, it would seem they share similar traits.

The Yankees were also the only team with a winning (82-80) record that offered me a job.

As a final thought, it would seem over the period between minor league and MLB off-seasons finishing jobs come up at irregular intervals.
I would be *highly* interested to see what happened had I realised that somewhere between October 20-November 1 with November 1 in my eyes the cut-off point, had I been offered a major league job sooner than 2010.

Just pretend you are like your namesake...........boy wonder.

[The Wolf]

If you have prestige, why assign it? Why not just let teams and players earn it on the field?

Ney York Yankees: +197 prestige

Chicago Cubs: -212 prestige

[delta]

Y

Originally Posted by BruceM

Umm, no that isn't what Commisioner setting is for. There's a difference between actually being hired as the manager and taking control of a team in Commish mode. Two different things altogether.

You can hire yourself as manager in commissioner mode

I've always wanted a managerial career where each league level is viewed as a different (independent) tier and you have to work your way up to managing in the major

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by delta

Y
You can hire yourself as manager in commissioner mode

When you take over a team in Commish mode, you are not "hired" as the GM. I can't find the thread now but Markus discussed this before.

Taking over a team when in Commish mode is not the same as being hired.

This should only be used for doing quick changes to a team.

[cbbl]

Originally Posted by BruceM

When you take over a team in Commish mode, you are not "hired" as the GM. I can't find the thread now but Markus discussed this before.

Taking over a team when in Commish mode is not the same as being hired.

This should only be used for doing quick changes to a team.

I think you're mistaken Bruce, although maybe I am. In Commish mode all jobs are available to you -- you just pick one.

What you are referring to, I believe, is the "act as" feature.

cbbl

[Oxydizer]

Thats why I go compleatly fictional BTW, you CAN set your own lineups when a minor league manager, I do a lot of research on my players then I set up depth and lineup's, I never ask the bench coaches for help.

[Oxydizer]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If you have prestige, why assign it? Why not just let teams and players earn it on the field?

Ney York Yankees: +197 prestige

Chicago Cubs: -212 prestige

wo wo wo, the Cubbies -212. come on now, they Got Lou!!!

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by cbbl

I think you're mistaken Bruce, although maybe I am. In Commish mode all jobs are available to you -- you just pick one.

What you are referring to, I believe, is the "act as" feature.

cbbl

No jobs are available to you unless you "Apply" for one. You can't "Just Pick One". When you are on your manager page while in Commish Mode the drop down option to take over a team clearly states "Act As". There is no option to "Take Over" a team. You are not being "Hired" by the team when you do that.

Unfortunately the thread where Markus discussed this is gone. It was in the original "OOTP 2007" thread that used to be stickied to the top of this forum.

[zekester91]

But if you go to the apply for job page with the commish checked, all the jobs (regardless if there is another human manager there) and you can apply for any one you wish, and you will be hired. (in 2006 you could also not be fired, don't know if that made it over to this year).