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Old 06-08-2019, 08:55 PM   #1901
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1948 European Heavyweight Tournament

In late 1948, starting in October there was staged another European heavyweight tournament. There are a handful of fighters we looked at in the 1947 tournament who come back to participate in this one in 1948, but there are a number of new names, so I'm going to take a look at them.

It is again in the first round consisting of 8 pairings....

Leading off in the first bout

Carl Nielsen 20 5 2 W RTD 2/8 Gilberto 3 2 0


Carl Nielsen - HW - Denmark
Career Record: W28(KO 18) / L10(KO 5) / D3

Unknown information has been left blank.

I originally rated Nielsen way back in June 2004. Updating here the rating along with more bio info on him.

The included Wiki website which you have to let Google translate it places Nielsen's death in May 1991.

Nielsen participated in a European Heavyweight tournament in the fall of 1048. In the frist round he defeated a Belgium noted in the Jan 1949 Ring account of this tourny simply as Gilberto (boxrec lists him a such). The "Danish Mountain" as Ring called him, stopped Gilberto in the 2nd round as the Belgium threw up his hands in surrender. Nielsen lost to Stephane Olek in the 2nd round.

Feb 1948 Ring Continental Ratings for 1947 had Nielsen ranked 5th heavyweight.
Feb 1949 Ring Continental Ratings for 1948 had Nielsen ranked 5th heavyweight.


Gilberto Vergote - LHW - Belgium
Career Record: W3(KO 0) / L4(KO 4) / D0

Unknonw information has been left blank.

DOB and DOD in BoxRec estimated?

In the Jan 1949 Ring, there was an account of the HW tournament in which Nielsen stopped Gilberto in the 2nd round. The short note on the fight just refered to Gilberto. Fought his career by Gilberto apparently, but I've named his file by Gilberto and his birth last name Vergote. BoxRec says his birth name is Gilbert Vergote.

Lost to Carl Nielsen throwing in the towel in the 2nd round in a European Heavyweight Tournament in Oct 1948. Lost to Jan Declercq, Aaron Wilson and Carl Nielsen while managing a decision win over Robert Eugene. Maybe his most recognizable opponents.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:03 PM   #1902
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1948 European Heavyweight Tournament

The 2nd match up in this tourney....

Kurt Schiegl 5 4 0 W KO 3/8 Jan Klein 7 7 1

Jan Klein we of course looked at in the 1947 Tournament.

Kurt Schiegl is another every early rating I did back in 2004 refined here with this new rating.

Kurt Schiegl - HW - Austria
Career Record: W24(KO 14) / L15(KO 11) / D1

TITLES:
Austrian Heavyweight Title

Unknown information has been left blank.
Refined Schiegl's rating from original I did in early 2004. Rocco

The Wiki account provided in the bio website, notes the Schiegl was drating in 1943 in the Wehrmacht but deserted into the Belgium underground. Started his professional boxing career after the war. Interesting the article notes his two early fights against Josef Weidinger, whom we know better as Jo Weidin.

In 1948 he participated in the European Heavyweight Tournament defeating Jan Klein and Piet Wilde in the first two rounds before loosing by 3rd round KO to Aaron Wilson in the semi-final round. He did win the 3rd place finish bout stopping Paco Bueno in the 3rd round.

In the October 1949 Ring writer Charlie Parrish called Schiegl "Europe's sole prospect among the big men just now".

In July 1949 he lost a 12 round decision to Hein Wiesner for the Austrian Heavyweight title. In another bid for teh Austrian title in August 1951 he was victorious this time defeating Wiesner in another 12 round decision. By the mid 1954 period Schiegle was ranked in the top 10 Continental heavyweights by Ring Magazine setting him up for a shot at the European Heavyweight Title. Schiegl was KO'd in the 3rd by Heinz Neuhaus in Oct 1954 for the European Heavyweight title. In Charlie Parish's account in the Jan 1955 Ring of the Neuhaus/Schiegl fight, that the "willing Austrian trial-horse", Schiegl put up a good showing before he was "crushed" by Neuhaus in the 3rd.

The May 1955 Ring, notes that in Schiegl's fight with Ingemar Johansson in February, had hurt his left elbow in the 3rd round but fought on till the 5th.

After his boxing career he emigrated to Canada where he settle in Toronto and later in the 60's-80s got into acting in television and the movies in bit parts
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:44 PM   #1903
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1948 European Heavyweight Tournament

This tournament would appear to show out how weak and thin European heavyweight boxing was in the late 40's going into the 50's.

The 3rd matchup.....and this appears the trend of this tournament with all the "good" heavies matched up against a fill in to use that term in a friendly way describing their opponents.

Stephane Olek 21 6 1 W KO 2/8 Albert Scohy 5 4 0


Albert Scohy - HW - Belgium
Career Record: W5(KO 3) / L7(KO 6) / D0

Unknown information has been left blank.

DOB has been estimated.

Had a brother, Jules Scohy who fought a couple times professionally in BoxRec.

In April 1938 fought Marc Noben for then then vacant Belgium Heavyweight title. Noben KO'd Albert in the 4th round.

Fought very infrequently in what is in his BoxRec file, twice in 1936, 5 times in 1938, once in 1939, once in 1942. Then after the wall showed up in 1948 for this European Heavyweight Tournament getting KO'd in the 2nd round in the toury's 1st round by Stphane Olek. Didn't fight again till Feb 1950, got knocked out by Werner Wiegand in 2 round and then shows up in Nov 1950 for another heavyweight competition, this time KO'd by Piet Wilde in 3.
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:20 PM   #1904
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1948 European Heavyweight Tournament

4th bout.......

Robert Eugene 4 8 0 W KO 1/8 A Jacquemin 0 3 0


A. Jacquemin - HW - Belgium
Career Record: W0(KO 0) / L5(KO 5) / D0

Unknown information has been left blank.

DOB has been estimated.

Was KO'd in 1st round of the opening round of the 1948 European Heavyweight Tournament by Robert Eugene. Why was this guy even in this?! No other heavyweights in europe breathing at the time?!
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:10 PM   #1905
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The obvious answer is that in 1948, just three years after a devastating war, there weren't too many able-bodied males around with the will and desire to box.

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Old 06-10-2019, 02:23 PM   #1906
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Great point well taken Cap. Had not even thought about that
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:49 PM   #1907
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1948 European Heavyweight Tournament

The 5th bout up in the tournament we've looked at both fighters before.

Paco Bueno 23 2 0 W PTS 6/6 Jan Declercq 4 5 0


So We'll move on to the 6th fight.....

Gabriel Bigotte 6 1 0 W TKO 1/6 Jaroslav Behounek debut

This fight maybe show just how true it might be Cap's observation that in the late 40's the world and especially Europe were just beginning to recover from World War II.

Jaroslav Behounek - HW - Czech Republic
Career Record: W0(KO 0) / L2(KO 1) / D0

Unknown information has been left blank.
DOB has been estimated.

First career listed fight was against Gabriel Bigotte in the 1st round of the 1948 European Heavyweight Tournament. Gigotte stopped Jaroslav in the 1st round.

2nd fight was in Jan 1950 loosing 6 round decision to Ernest Chalono.



Gabriel Bigotte - HW - France
Career Record: W8(KO 8) / L10(KO 4) / D0

Unknown information has been left blank.
DOD has been estimated on BoxRec.

Original Rating by Tiger Fan

Fought in the 1948 European Heavyweight Tournament, winning in the first round stopping Jaroslav Behournek in the first round. Bigotte then was KO'd in round 1 in the 2nd round of the tourny by Aaron Wilson.

Other fights of interest were all losses to Giovanni Martin, Carl Nielsen twice, Oiva Purho, Paco Bueno, Don Cockell, Raymond Degl'Innocenti and Al Bernard.

Included website found had the photo of Bigotte. Confirms he was born in Grenay but lists his birth date as June 21, 1921. As an amateur fighter the article says he fought 200 time winning 197 by knockout and was beaten 3 times on points. In April 1947 he won the title Champion de France. Says he fought as a heavyweight, so that and some of his listed fight weights in BoxRec would believe it an error in BoxRec listing him as a light heavy.

It says in that web article that Gabriel apparently was almost on the plane that crashed and killed Marcel Cerdan and Ginette Neveu.

He seem to fight up and down opponents between MW's and Heavyweight's. Maybe reason for BoxRec calling him a LHW. But the website I found and include in his file notes him as a heavyweight.
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Old 06-11-2019, 08:19 PM   #1908
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1948 European Heavyweight Tournament

7th fight....

Piet Wilde 14 7 0 W PTS 3/3 Albert Coulbaly 5 1 1


Albert Coulbaly - HW - France
Career Record: W6(KO 2) / L5(KO 2) / D2

Unknown information has been left blank.
DOB has been estimated.

Won his first 5 fights including a 2nd round KO of Emile Bentz, then went 1-5-2 rest of the way. In October 1948 lost a 3 round decision to Piet Wilde in the 1st round of the 1948 European Heavyweight Tournament. Last career listed fight was a 1st round KO Earl Walls.
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Old 06-16-2019, 07:40 PM   #1909
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1948 European Heavyweight Tournament

Here is the last fight of the 1948 European Heavyweight Tournament...

Aaron Wilson 5 3 0 W KO 2 Stanislas Smardz 1 15 1


Stanislas Smardz - HW - Poland
Career Record: W1(KO 0) / L17(KO 6) / D1

Unknown information has been left blank
DOB has been estimated.

Romultiltus and Bear did original ratings and had his file name as Stan Smardz. Noted Smardz record as 0-5-0 at the time. I've changed his file name to Stanislas as it is in BoxRec. His rating I did is kind of a combination of Bear's and Romultiltus taking some ratings from each that I just kind of liked better.

Fought and was KO'd by Aaron Wilson in the 2nd round in round 1 of the 1948 European Heavyweight Tournament in Oct 1948.

Smardz lost fight also to Albert Coulbaly, Jo Weidin, Gabriel Bigotte twice and Emile Bentz twice and Jacques Hairedian.


Aaron Wilson - HW - USA
Career Record: W21(KO 15) / L10(KO 5) / D0

I did a little testing of the TBCB3 Rating and it checked out pretty good so is only did some bio info updating.

Unknown information has been left blank.

An intersting somewhat short career for American born Aaron Wilson who picked up residence in Paris, France where he fought the first 4+ years of his career compiling a record of W18(KO 12) / L4(KO 1) / D0. In 1948 he fought in the European Heavyweight Tournament which he was crowned champion of after defeating Stanislas Smardz, Gabriel Bigotte, Kurt Schiegl and then in the final Stephane Olek.

Some other notable fights in Europe during this time was a TKO loss to Olle Tandberg, 8 round decision losses to Nils Anderson and Oiva Purho, knockout wins over Jack London, Robert Eugene and Don Cockell, a decision over Cockell and Stephane Olek (Twice), and a points loss to Johnny Williams.

In early 1951 afteer the Williams loss in England, Wilson went to the US to tour there. After an 8th round KO over Elkin Brothers, though he lost twice to Coley Wallace in successive fights and the TKO losses to Jimmy Bivins and Dan Bucceroni. After that in mid 1952 he went back to England and Europe for three more fights a KO over Ray Wilding and then losses to Renato Tontini and Karel Sys. Apparently retires but then in BoxRec we see him show up in March 1958 to fight Elie Rogalle in Holyoke, Massachusettes apparenlty having moved back to the US?

A brief account in March 1950 Ring of Wilson's 1st round KO of Jack London notes Wilson came out to start the 1st, faked a left to London's body then followed up with a left that connected high on side of London's head sending him down for the count.

In the April 1950 Ring, Wilson's TKO stoppage of Robert Eugene was part of a heavyweight program that proved to be a big loss financially with poor showing of only 7000 fans. The Ring account noted the lact of interest due to "the poor class of Continental heavies".
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:25 PM   #1910
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TBCB Photos Fighters Debuting 1930 to 1939 Rating

Been off line a bit deciding what next to do after finishing that 1948 Tournament and then was gone on vacation. I was looking around the Photos thread to look up some photos of fighters from this time period and came up with the thought of looking at some of the photo postings to see if there we any needing rated or least I don't have a rating for.

I looked at the end of the 1930-1939 debuting period and first one of the shoot, here is Russ Wasser who's photo was posted by Waltercito.

Russ Wasser - LHW / HW - USA
Career Record: W34(KO 23) / L15(KO 3) / D2

Unknown information has been left blank.

Birth name: Russell Emil Wasser. Fought as Russ Schultz or Schulz.

Fought 1934 thru early 1935 fight with Barney McLaughlin as a light heavyweight. After that starting in August 1935 against Max Marek appears moved up to the heavyweights. Created a LHW and HW rating for Russ.

LHW record W11(KO 8) / L4(KO 0) / D1
HW record W23(KO 15) / L11(KO 3) / D1

Notable fights as a LHW were a 6 round draw and 6 round points loss to Lee Savold and three 6 round decision losses to Larry Udell (LHW with a 36-17-5, 24 KO Record). As heavyweights, Wasser and Savold fought again in Dec 1935 with Savold winning a 5 round decision. Interesting background on this fight noted in the BoxRec listing of Wasser's record... "Minneapolis "one-night" version of heavyweight "white hope" tournaments that were being held around the country as a reaction to Joe Louis' ascendancy. By defeating Schulz in the feature card of the evening, Savold became the Class A titlist on a 21-bout card that included 9 knockouts. The tournament featured three classes: A, B, and C. Information from the Duluth Herald".

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/2895..._wasser_boxer/ this website link carries a copy of a newspaper article from the May 15, 1938 Minneapolis Tribune giving an account of Wasser's 10 round decision victory over Harry Thomas.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:07 PM   #1911
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TBCB Photos Fighters Debuting 1930 to 1939 Rating

Billy Nichy - LHW/HW - USA
Career Record: W51(KO 20) / L28(KO 19) / D2

Cap posted this photo of Nichy back in Aug 2016, so not too long ago. Had the rating for him shown by the TBCB3 DB team. could not find in a search of the forums any older rating. I added a little bit of bio info and on the TBCB rating I changed the Valid as of to 1943-03 which March was his first career fight listed.

Unknown information has been left blank.

The TBCB3 Rating for Nichy is as a Light Heavyweight. A Buffalonews.com article dated 4/16/19 mentions Nichy as one of 6 fighters just inducted in the Ring 44 Hall of Fame and shows him as a Light Heavyweight. Boxrec and Fight Stat list him as a heavyweight.

Looking at his record on BoxRec from 1932-42 he was probably fighting as and known as the light heavyweight even though his fight weights at times moved some above the 175 LHW limit. But after his fight with Jackie Conn in March 1942 there is a year off in his record till March 1943 when he fight Johnny Allen and at 187 lbs. His fights then the remainder of his career are shown in the mid 180s and up and so were his opponents.

So I've created a split HW rating fo Nichy for the March 1943 to Oct 1945 career. Noticing that of his 6 wins, none by stoppages.

HW Record: W6(KO 0) / L4(KO 4) / D0
LHW Record: W45(KO 20) / L24(KO 15) / D2

A copy of an article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Nov 21 1941 covering Nichy's fight with Moses Brown in which Nichy was knocked down 9 times. From the article...he went through the ropes for a no count in the 3rd, was down for three and nine in the 4th, for a no count in the 5th, for a nine counts in the 7th and four times for nine in the 8th.
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Old 07-05-2019, 05:48 PM   #1912
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TBCB Photos Fighters Debuting 1930 to 1939 Rating

Joe O'Gatty - HW - USA

Cap Posted O'Gatty's photo in March 2016

Career Record: W12(KO 7) / L29(KO 12) / D4

His Record with the listed Newspaper Decision shown: W14(KO 7) / L29(KO 12) / D5

Unknown information has been left blank.
DOB has been estimated.

Birth Name: Guido Gatti A photo found online has Joe's signature on it and he spelled his name Joe O Gatti.

Original Rating by Sal in 2005.

O'Gatty's record in BoxRec shows a first fight in Aug 1935 against a Joe Barry(MW) at a fight weight of 170 (LHW) (Newspaper decision not in boxrec official record for), then his next listed fight is March 1936 and his weights there after are heavyweight class.

His career started a modest W11(KO 7) / L6(KO 2) / D3 but there after W1(KO 0) / L23(KO 10) / D1 includng losses in his last 12 bouts, 8 by stoppages.

The New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame article (link included), mentions Joe O'Gatti born in 1917 about the time the world was hit with the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918-1919. Joe's parents, Giancinto and Matilda Zocchi Gatti both died from the influenza and Joe ended up placed in a Syracuse, NO orphange. Intesting that the artical is titled a the top with his name, Joe O'Gatti, inducted on Oct 30, 1977 but then in the article his last name is spelled O'Gatty. Did he go by O'Gatty when he became a boxer? No mention of the spelly change.

Willie Gilzenberg became his fight manager in the early 1930s.
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Old 07-29-2019, 10:27 PM   #1913
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What is happening

Sorry I've been away for a bit, and will be for a bit more. Dropped in to let you know what I'm up to.

I'm in the infancy state of creating a blog on WordPress. In it my intent is to write about what I'm doing here on the forum with Title Bout. I'm really getting more interest in learning more about the history of heavyweight boxing and even boxing in general. I want to try and take some of what I"m doing here researching these boxer while creating these ratings for the game and take that maybe, hopefully to another venue to spread the news about what goes on here in the Title Bout Championship Boxing forum and get it maybe some more exposure out into the internet world. Maybe introduce some new people to Title Bout.

Maybe a crazing thing to try and do, but, we'll see. It's going to center around of course heavyweight boxing and exploring the wealth of so many heavyweights who never had the chance to maybe even fight for a championship. That being the primary focus of this new blog en devour, it's title.....and yes maybe will sound corny to many, but I like it......Heavyweight Boxing..."coulda been a contender"....or Not!, with the tag line, The Contenders, Fringe Contenders, Journeymen, Trial Horses, Club Fighters and Tomato Cans of Heavyweight Boxing,

Maybe long and again kind of corny but wanted to get the idea across what its going to be about.

Again just started the first bits getting it started, slowly as I'm starting this out knowing nothing about WordPress and blogging. Did some research on blogging sites and WordPress seemed the best overall choice.

so not ready to give out the link yet! See ya soon though I hope!
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:36 PM   #1914
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Yea!!!!! I got a menu link created onto my site that took me to the forum here!

Man....not to wish my life away I wish I was comfortably retired now so I could spend more time on this. Between family, work and just not knowing anything about this WordPress business yet this is going to be slow......! Need to get back to to just looking at some fighters!
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Old 08-04-2019, 04:04 PM   #1915
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Launching....
Heavyweight Boxing, "coulda been a contender".....or Not!

http://heavyweightboxingcouldabeenacontenderornot.com/
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Old 08-09-2019, 04:14 PM   #1916
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Sounds like a plan. Maybe an idea for a future AU for myself. What if all the guys who actually won the world title had never been born? So no Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Hart, Burns, Johnson, etc. Good chance those guys saved the sport, but who would've won the world title from among the rest of the heavyweight class?

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Old 08-11-2019, 09:26 PM   #1917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap View Post
Sounds like a plan. Maybe an idea for a future AU for myself. What if all the guys who actually won the world title had never been born? So no Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Jeffries, Hart, Burns, Johnson, etc. Good chance those guys saved the sport, but who would've won the world title from among the rest of the heavyweight class?

Cap
Interesting thought Cap! I've been doing me some more reading on the whole history of heavyweight boxing. If you take out the champions from each of the different decades, that poses and interesting thought on OK, who would be the new champions. Been reading through some things both on line and in my Ring magazines how many really good heavyweight fighters never really got the chance to contend for or get the chance to fight for championships, not just the heavies, because its always been it seems too much of who had the careers controlled by who that allowed the matchups to happen.
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Old 08-11-2019, 09:27 PM   #1918
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Posted a little additional construction efforts on the site. Gave some insite info on the OOTP Forums site.

Heavyweight Boxing, "coulda been a contender".....or Not!

http://heavyweightboxingcouldabeenacontenderornot.com/
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:54 PM   #1919
Antonin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocco Del Sesto View Post
Posted a little additional construction efforts on the site. Gave some insite info on the OOTP Forums site.

Heavyweight Boxing, "coulda been a contender".....or Not!

http://heavyweightboxingcouldabeenacontenderornot.com/
I like the format of your blog. And it's a great idea. I'm very interested in learning about those guys who never got the shot they deserved. Now, all the alphabet organizations and their worthless belts have really diluted the whole concept of a champion.

I used to support the idea of "unification" bouts, but now I've come to see that sort of thing as boring and pointless.

I liked the parts where you talked about watching sports with your dad. How lucky you are to have had that experience! My dad died in 1961, and I often think about how much fun it would have been to watch "the fights" with him and compare the likes of Louis and Marciano with Ali and Frazier.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:27 PM   #1920
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Billy and Ron Gray

I finally decided to give a subscription to the Boxing News Online getting a digital copy on my new iPad i got for reading. Well lo and behold the first edition I get has an article about Ron Gray, British heavyweight from the 60's and later promoter and manager. I'd rated him way back in around 2006. His file later got updated, I'm not sure I remember when I did I did a split MW and HW rating as his very early career was as a Middleweight.

Well this got me thinking about his brother Billy whom I'd done a rating for back in 2006 some time I think. The Billy Gray rating later got updated by the TBCB3 DB Team. So I did a search for Billy on the internet and came up with a Boxing News Online article from March 2015 about Billy's death in January of that year. The article was contributed to much by Ron. Some nice new info i learned bout Billy and Ron including where they were born according to Ron in this article.

Well, I'm going for first post an updated file here for Billy with some new bio info. I've ever so little bit tweeked the TBCB3 rating a bit, to my liking anyway. I'll follow up with an update on Ron after I finish reading through the recent article about him in Boxing News.

Billy Gray - HW - England
Career Record: W18(KO 9) / L5(KO 4) / D1

Unknown information has been left blank.

Did an original rating of Billy Gray in 2006 posting in the title bout forums. Later the TBCB3 DB Team updated his rating. The rating in my current data base is marked source as TBCB3 DB Team-UO. Not sure what the UO is?

Here in in posted a new rating i've ever so little bit tweeked and updated bio info. Rocco

Manager: Wally Lesley

During the height of Gray's career from 1966 thru 68, the big five of the British heavyweight boxing rankings were Henry Cooper, Jack Bodell, Brian London, Billy Walker and Johnny Prescott. There was always this small group of another heavyweights whom Gray was part of who jockyed for the next ten positions in the rankings.



Billy is the younger brother of heavyweight, Ron Gray.

An article posted March 6, 2015 by Boxing News Online about the death of Ron's brother Billy Gray in January of that year gives a nice account about Billy and some on the Gray family and in it Ron comments that they were "born and bred in Norton Canes, as were most of the family and I am the eldest of four boys and a girl. There were two years between me and Billy." So from that info Ron and Billys' birth place is posted as Norton Canes, Cannock Chase district which is in Staffordshire. The article mentions Billy died from a year long battle with bowel cancer. Billy and two of the other brothers, Doug and Pete fought amateur at the Wolverhampton Boxing Club. Older brother Ron turned pro at 16 never fighting as an amateur.

According to Ron in this Boxing News Online article on Billy's death, Ron says at the time of Billy's decision loss to Carl Gizzi, which was Billy's 3rd to last career fight, Billy was dealing with an iron deficiency that ultimately ended his career within less than a year.
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Last edited by Rocco Del Sesto; 08-25-2019 at 08:51 PM.
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