Theworst 50 HR season

24Rocks · 08-10-2013, 04:26 PM

I had a player have this season last year in the Canadian Baseball league

2042 Charlottetown - CBL 31 154 580 137 27 2 50 143 88 42 1 10 155 1 2 .236 .284 .548 .833 104 8.2 -1.3

and I don't get how this could happen he also hit 4 hr in the post season and lead them to 2042 CBL Series champs, the season before his numbers were .229 35/86 16.5 VORP 1.7 WAR

bwburke94 · 08-10-2013, 04:31 PM

At least it isn't like that one year where Mark McGwire hit .201

Left-handed Badger · 08-11-2013, 06:16 AM

I had one in an earlier OOTP have a 52 HR season, and was under .200 for most of the season (I think he ended up .205). He was a rookie, so he ended up winning ROY.

Honorable_Pawn · 08-11-2013, 10:49 AM

yeah...that WAR calculation leaves a lot to be desired. There's no way that having this guy in the line-up cost your team 1.3 wins. Way off...I wonder how many of those 50 HR's and 143 RBI's were walk-offs. Also, I'll take a .833 SLG% over any replacement scrub all day long.

canadiancreed · 08-11-2013, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

yeah...that WAR calculation leaves a lot to be desired. There's no way that having this guy in the line-up cost your team 1.3 wins. Way off...I wonder how many of those 50 HR's and 143 RBI's were walk-offs. Also, I'll take a .833 SLG% over any replacement scrub all day long.

Geeze another Dave Kingman!

And the Islanders made it to the big show? Nice! (former CBL PEI owner here)

mpejkrm · 08-11-2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

yeah...that WAR calculation leaves a lot to be desired. There's no way that having this guy in the line-up cost your team 1.3 wins. Way off...I wonder how many of those 50 HR's and 143 RBI's were walk-offs. Also, I'll take a .833 SLG% over any replacement scrub all day long.

We don't know how good (or bad) he was on defense. What if he was costing his team 2 wins purely on his defense?

Honorable_Pawn · 08-11-2013, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpejkrm

We don't know how good (or bad) he was on defense. What if he was costing his team 2 wins purely on his defense?

True enough...but, man 50 dingers? I'm guessing RF'er?

Mr. Baseball · 08-11-2013, 02:27 PM

I hate when people use WAR as the only tool for comparing players. Too many people are doing that lately, and it's annoying. There will never be one stat that will determine a players worth. You need to look at the big picture.

24Rocks · 08-11-2013, 08:51 PM

I wasn't using it at how good the player was im saying it should prove that he was a good player because his stats tell me he was.

and his Defense was ok he was a CF tho

2042 Charlottetown - INT 1B 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 1.0 0.00 0.0 .000
2042 Charlottetown - INT LF 44 39 86 2 0 89 1 .989 359.0 2.21 +1.5 1.026
2042 Charlottetown - INT CF 105 103 249 10 2 264 5 .981 900.0 2.59 -23.0 .893
2042 Charlottetown - INT RF 2 2 4 1 0 5 0 1.000 18.0 2.50 -0.0 .995

but its the same this season and he his hitting better again but 0.0 war and only 10.8 VORP so its confusing and his defense is solid.

24Rocks · 08-11-2013, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

I hate when people use WAR as the only tool for comparing players. Too many people are doing that lately, and it's annoying. There will never be one stat that will determine a players worth. You need to look at the big picture.

Im trying to say that he shouldn't have a negative WAR or low VORP during a 50 HR season.

mpejkrm · 08-11-2013, 09:38 PM

-23 UZR? He's horrific on defense. That's what is causing his WAR to fall so low.

24Rocks · 08-11-2013, 09:53 PM

Ok thank you but does really make it that much of a difference I never understood ZR or Ranger factor, and this season its -10.3 so i can see why a replacement player would have more value.

Mr. Baseball · 08-11-2013, 09:56 PM

That was just a general statement entirely not directed at you 24rocks.

I just get annoyed when I try to argue about stats and people throw everything I say out the window and say "Well, he has a better WAR!". Yes. WAR is a good stat. But it's not perfect.

24Rocks · 08-11-2013, 10:06 PM

I Understand Mr. Baseball the MVP vote last year perfect example of what your saying MC won cause he had triple crown but Mike Trout had better season, its the reason I do my own voting for MVP in my FIC leagues.

Mr. Baseball · 08-11-2013, 10:38 PM

The entire award voting process in Major League Baseball is a joke. Just look at Justin Verlander winning the MVP Award. I don't care if a pitcher goes 20-5 with a 1.50 ERA...the MVP should be reserved for batters in the same way that the Cy Young Award is exclusive to pitchers. Then you had Bryce Harper winning the Rookie Of The Year last year based on the name alone when it was obvious Wade Miley deserved it. Finally, Ryan Braun winning the 2011 MVP only because the Brewers made the NLCS and the Dodgers didn't.

Pacoheadley · 08-12-2013, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

The entire award voting process in Major League Baseball is a joke. Just look at Justin Verlander winning the MVP Award. I don't care if a pitcher goes 20-5 with a 1.50 ERA...the MVP should be reserved for batters in the same way that the Cy Young Award is exclusive to pitchers. Then you had Bryce Harper winning the Rookie Of The Year last year based on the name alone when it was obvious Wade Miley deserved it. Finally, Ryan Braun winning the 2011 MVP only because the Brewers made the NLCS and the Dodgers didn't.

I agree with you for the most part, except Bryce Harper and Wade Miley were pretty equally deserving last year. Harper hit 21% above the league average by wOBA, and Miley was 19% better than league average by ERA, and 23% by FIP.

Ts-Rock · 08-12-2013, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24Rocks

I wasn't using it at how good the player was im saying it should prove that he was a good player because his stats tell me he was.

and his Defense was ok he was a CF tho

2042 Charlottetown - INT 1B 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 1.0 0.00 0.0 .000
2042 Charlottetown - INT LF 44 39 86 2 0 89 1 .989 359.0 2.21 +1.5 1.026
2042 Charlottetown - INT CF 105 103 249 10 2 264 5 .981 900.0 2.59 -23.0 .893
2042 Charlottetown - INT RF 2 2 4 1 0 5 0 1.000 18.0 2.50 -0.0 .995

but its the same this season and he his hitting better again but 0.0 war and only 10.8 VORP so its confusing and his defense is solid.

-23.0 ZR and a .893 eff is HORRIBLE! especially at a key defensive pos like CF! This is why he has a negative war and low VORP and is why he should.

- he doesn't hit for avg
- he doesn't get on base
- he strikes out a ton
- he's a defensive liability
- and for 50 HRs he still had a OPS under .900

He's a

Ts-Rock · 08-12-2013, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

The entire award voting process in Major League Baseball is a joke. Just look at Justin Verlander winning the MVP Award. I don't care if a pitcher goes 20-5 with a 1.50 ERA...the MVP should be reserved for batters in the same way that the Cy Young Award is exclusive to pitchers. Then you had Bryce Harper winning the Rookie Of The Year last year based on the name alone when it was obvious Wade Miley deserved it. Finally, Ryan Braun winning the 2011 MVP only because the Brewers made the NLCS and the Dodgers didn't.

I'm more old school in the fact that i personally think the MVP should go to a player on a team in playoffs or in playoff race. I don't see the MVP as a "who had the best offensive season" award, thats what the silver slugger awards are far (granted it's pos based but even more so). But since MLB doesn't come out and say what/how the MVP should actually be voted on, it's just a good arguing point now for baseball fans.

24Rocks · 08-12-2013, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ts-Rock

-23.0 ZR and a .893 eff is HORRIBLE! especially at a key defensive pos like CF! This is why he has a negative war and low VORP and is why he should.

- he doesn't hit for avg
- he doesn't get on base
- he strikes out a ton
- he's a defensive liability
- and for 50 HRs he still had a OPS under .900

He's a

I didn't under stand that part of the defense structure till I took a good look up on it, and he isnt a good contact hitter at all and that shows but 50 HR is a feat none the less, but what you and mpejkrm said makes scenes why even with 50 HR he still cost his team games.
The only reason he was playing CF was because he could and the rest of the OF couldn't even tho the back up CF in 286 ab hit .329 22/63 and played much better defense but just wasn't good enough to start.

TribeFanInNC · 08-12-2013, 08:42 AM

You have to remember, this is all relative to the rest of the league too. If everybody else is hitting 50 HRs too, then this performance is not very good.

His overall .833 OPS and 50 HRs looks pretty good in a vacuum. But that only translates to 104 OPS+ and 8 VORP because the rest of the league also hits over .800 OPS. These numbers tell more of the story (100 OPS+ = league average and 0 VORP should be playing in a lower league). Basically your guy is a league average hitter and lost you 4 games with his defense (if you believe defensive metrics). Hence, he has a negative WAR.

It's not that the 50 HRs didn't lead to runs or help your team. It's that all the other players in the league helped their team just as much. Thus, he was any more valuable than the average player in this league as a hitter.

08-10-2013, 04:26 PM	#1
24Rocks All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scarborough, Ontario, Canada Posts: 798	Theworst 50 HR season I had a player have this season last year in the Canadian Baseball league 2042 Charlottetown - CBL 31 154 580 137 27 2 50 143 88 42 1 10 155 1 2 .236 .284 .548 .833 104 8.2 -1.3 and I don't get how this could happen he also hit 4 hr in the post season and lead them to 2042 CBL Series champs, the season before his numbers were .229 35/86 16.5 VORP 1.7 WAR __________________ Jonny AFBL:Ontario Blue Pirates (2013-2055) 3177-3255(.494) Wild Card:8 Division Titles: 8 Pennants: 2020, 2049, 2051 2051 CHAMPS Former leagues: LOHO: Detroit Tigers ISL: San Diego Padres VSL: Pittsburgh Pirates NPBL: Ohio Raptors/Nova Scotia Fishermen Check you my YOUTUBE or TWITCH

08-11-2013, 06:16 AM	#3
Left-handed Badger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: at the altar of the baseball god praying for middle infield that can catch the ball Posts: 2,036	I had one in an earlier OOTP have a 52 HR season, and was under .200 for most of the season (I think he ended up .205). He was a rookie, so he ended up winning ROY. __________________ -Left-handed groundball specialist -Strikeouts are for wimps

08-11-2013, 10:49 AM	#4
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	yeah...that WAR calculation leaves a lot to be desired. There's no way that having this guy in the line-up cost your team 1.3 wins. Way off...I wonder how many of those 50 HR's and 143 RBI's were walk-offs. Also, I'll take a .833 SLG% over any replacement scrub all day long. __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

08-11-2013, 02:27 PM	#8
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	I hate when people use WAR as the only tool for comparing players. Too many people are doing that lately, and it's annoying. There will never be one stat that will determine a players worth. You need to look at the big picture. __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions!

08-11-2013, 08:51 PM	#9
24Rocks All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scarborough, Ontario, Canada Posts: 798	I wasn't using it at how good the player was im saying it should prove that he was a good player because his stats tell me he was. and his Defense was ok he was a CF tho 2042 Charlottetown - INT 1B 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 1.0 0.00 0.0 .000 2042 Charlottetown - INT LF 44 39 86 2 0 89 1 .989 359.0 2.21 +1.5 1.026 2042 Charlottetown - INT CF 105 103 249 10 2 264 5 .981 900.0 2.59 -23.0 .893 2042 Charlottetown - INT RF 2 2 4 1 0 5 0 1.000 18.0 2.50 -0.0 .995 but its the same this season and he his hitting better again but 0.0 war and only 10.8 VORP so its confusing and his defense is solid. __________________ Jonny AFBL:Ontario Blue Pirates (2013-2055) 3177-3255(.494) Wild Card:8 Division Titles: 8 Pennants: 2020, 2049, 2051 2051 CHAMPS Former leagues: LOHO: Detroit Tigers ISL: San Diego Padres VSL: Pittsburgh Pirates NPBL: Ohio Raptors/Nova Scotia Fishermen Check you my YOUTUBE or TWITCH

08-10-2013, 04:31 PM	#2
bwburke94 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Belchertown, MA, USA Posts: 4,443	At least it isn't like that one year where Mark McGwire hit .201

08-11-2013, 09:38 PM	#11
mpejkrm All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 951	-23 UZR? He's horrific on defense. That's what is causing his WAR to fall so low.

08-11-2013, 09:53 PM	#12
24Rocks All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scarborough, Ontario, Canada Posts: 798	Ok thank you but does really make it that much of a difference I never understood ZR or Ranger factor, and this season its -10.3 so i can see why a replacement player would have more value. __________________ Jonny AFBL:Ontario Blue Pirates (2013-2055) 3177-3255(.494) Wild Card:8 Division Titles: 8 Pennants: 2020, 2049, 2051 2051 CHAMPS Former leagues: LOHO: Detroit Tigers ISL: San Diego Padres VSL: Pittsburgh Pirates NPBL: Ohio Raptors/Nova Scotia Fishermen Check you my YOUTUBE or TWITCH Last edited by 24Rocks; 08-11-2013 at 09:54 PM.

08-11-2013, 09:56 PM	#13
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	That was just a general statement entirely not directed at you 24rocks. I just get annoyed when I try to argue about stats and people throw everything I say out the window and say "Well, he has a better WAR!". Yes. WAR is a good stat. But it's not perfect. __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions!

08-11-2013, 10:06 PM	#14
24Rocks All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scarborough, Ontario, Canada Posts: 798	I Understand Mr. Baseball the MVP vote last year perfect example of what your saying MC won cause he had triple crown but Mike Trout had better season, its the reason I do my own voting for MVP in my FIC leagues. __________________ Jonny AFBL:Ontario Blue Pirates (2013-2055) 3177-3255(.494) Wild Card:8 Division Titles: 8 Pennants: 2020, 2049, 2051 2051 CHAMPS Former leagues: LOHO: Detroit Tigers ISL: San Diego Padres VSL: Pittsburgh Pirates NPBL: Ohio Raptors/Nova Scotia Fishermen Check you my YOUTUBE or TWITCH

08-11-2013, 10:38 PM	#15
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	The entire award voting process in Major League Baseball is a joke. Just look at Justin Verlander winning the MVP Award. I don't care if a pitcher goes 20-5 with a 1.50 ERA...the MVP should be reserved for batters in the same way that the Cy Young Award is exclusive to pitchers. Then you had Bryce Harper winning the Rookie Of The Year last year based on the name alone when it was obvious Wade Miley deserved it. Finally, Ryan Braun winning the 2011 MVP only because the Brewers made the NLCS and the Dodgers didn't. __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions!

08-12-2013, 08:42 AM	#20
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,019	You have to remember, this is all relative to the rest of the league too. If everybody else is hitting 50 HRs too, then this performance is not very good. His overall .833 OPS and 50 HRs looks pretty good in a vacuum. But that only translates to 104 OPS+ and 8 VORP because the rest of the league also hits over .800 OPS. These numbers tell more of the story (100 OPS+ = league average and 0 VORP should be playing in a lower league). Basically your guy is a league average hitter and lost you 4 games with his defense (if you believe defensive metrics). Hence, he has a negative WAR. It's not that the 50 HRs didn't lead to runs or help your team. It's that all the other players in the league helped their team just as much. Thus, he was any more valuable than the average player in this league as a hitter.