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Old 08-22-2014, 08:08 PM   #21
Déjà Bru
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Actually, I'm starting to like this because if I get too frustrated, I can now go back to Average difficulty without feeling guilty.
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Old 08-25-2014, 06:29 PM   #22
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While I agree generally that Average has definitely improved in terms of trade difficulty, its hard for me to say whether or I think it has become too hard or not. I am just playing the newest patch for the first time and its proving difficult to move even cheap, good players.

My one wish for "Shop a Player" would be the ability to shop a player for a package deal instead of the 1 v. 1. Obviously now its used as a starting point to begin negotiating, but I would like some sort of look at the different packages an interested team would be willing to part with.
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Old 08-26-2014, 12:27 AM   #23
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Another approach to the Shop a Player function would be to simply list interested teams, maybe with a scale from "Somewhat Interested" to "Highly Interested" or something like that. Frequently there is a team that would like the player but it would take some financial finagling to make it work as the team needs you to take back some salary.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:26 PM   #24
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I'm finding the trading system completely broken, even on the average setting. I tested it out, and the AI consistently refuses to trade away 27 year old, half-star potential nobodies for my all-star closer. Even massively ripping myself off doesn't work.
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:01 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Neasag View Post
I'm finding the trading system completely broken, even on the average setting. I tested it out, and the AI consistently refuses to trade away 27 year old, half-star potential nobodies for my all-star closer. Even massively ripping myself off doesn't work.
what does his contract look like?
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:06 PM   #26
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Coming from another new player but one who played 14. Trading now is insanely hard. I'll admit in 14 it was a bit easy to get favorable trades but now geez. Just getting something close to even is really hard. Seems like it went a bit to far in trying to increase the difficulty. Now it's like Madden where you HAVE TO give the computer a better deal just to get a trade. The team initiating the trade should be the team giving up a bit more, IMO, but not nearly as far as the game forces you to go. In 14 I used normal difficulty for trading in 15 I use easy and find it's nearly the same as what normal was then.

Honestly I've never understood the reasoning in gaming of "Hard is to hard...ok well lets increase the difficulty of normal". That doesn't fix the issue. All the game needed was a few tweaks to make the AI a bit smarter but the route it went was to far.

Lopsided trades are fine when their is a reason to have to make them (aging high dollar stars for example) but when trades have to be lopsided just to make a trade of middle of the road players it shouldn't be that way.

Also in the 250+ years of simming I've done testing league designs I've only had 1 trade request that was remotely even not in my favor but even. If you are sending me a trade request that means you want something I have. You should be giving up a bit more.

I will say this. Setting up a AI system for player trading in any game is really hard to do. Their are so many variables and the AI will never be as good as a person. So game developers will almost always prop up the AI by making trades more favorable to the AI. I understand that.

The best game I ever played for trading was early 2000s NHL game(s). I can't remember the exact year. The game at it's base used a 10% scale (you could trade a 70 rated player for anyone between 67 and 73) before age, contract, team need, etc came into play. Age, contract, team need would add a percentage modifier to the trade. A 85+ rated 35 year old would only be worth a 75 rated 25 year old, etc. So you would generally always get a relatively even trade but also still make the super star trades. Granted trading was a bit easy (it was players complaining that made EA redo the trading AI) but you knew you weren't going to be screwed when doing it. That's another thing. I think many players equate even trades as "easy". It's the "Trades in real life are usually lopsided so trades in the game should be lopsided". But that isn't exactly true. Yes trades in real life tend to favor one team more than another but it's like that for a team in every trade. Not just one team all the time (i.e. your team in every trade)

Last edited by ra7c7er; 08-27-2014 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 08-28-2014, 01:46 PM   #27
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what does his contract look like?
He's making the league minimum, and the team has loads of budget room to spare. There is absolutely zero reason why the AI wouldn't want to make the trade. It would be the biggest steal in history.

I set the difficulty to "easy" and it seems to be the same as the old "normal". It looks like they've just bumped all the difficulties up a level.

Last edited by Neasag; 08-28-2014 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 08-28-2014, 01:57 PM   #28
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Trade Issues

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Originally Posted by Neasag View Post
He's making the league minimum, and the team has loads of budget room to spare. There is absolutely zero reason why the AI wouldn't want to make the trade. It would be the biggest steal in history.

I set the difficulty to "easy" and it seems to be the same as the old "normal". It looks like they've just bumped all the difficulties up a level.

Do they need a closer? Relievers are easily replaceable.

Is scouting on? Whats the accuracy? Maybe your scout view those players differently than the AI's scout.

If scouting is not on, maybe the AI's manager/Or GM values prospects more than Vets.

Are they rebuilding, win now mode or normal?

There could be many reasons why that trade was rejected.

I would like to think the game's AI is smarter than "This guy is rated this, so I should get him for that"

We're so used to that from the Maddens and the other console sports games so I guess it's expected to be that simple.

FWIW, I play with very hard trading.

Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 08-28-2014 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:08 PM   #29
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I tried trading for a whole bunch of different career minor league plugs, and it's pretty consistent (so I doubt scouting is the issue), as well as with different AI teams. Same deal.

I noted that if I demand a player with the equivalent salary to my closer, even ML players far better than the plugs (who have minor league salaries), the AI accepts the trade. It seems that even with a lot of money to spare, the AI would rather save the tiny bit of salary.
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:20 PM   #30
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Trade Issues

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Originally Posted by Neasag View Post
I tried trading for a whole bunch of different career minor league plugs, and it's pretty consistent (so I doubt scouting is the issue), as well as with different AI teams. Same deal.

I noted that if I demand a player with the equivalent salary to my closer, even ML players far better than the plugs (who have minor league salaries), the AI accepts the trade. It seems that even with a lot of money to spare, the AI would rather save the tiny bit of salary.

So pretty much they don't want to pick up the extra salary.

That doesn't sound broken at all especially when the player in question is a closer. Are these teams in need of a closer and are they contending?

Considering he's 27 (or was that the minor leaguer's age?) Im sure he is up for arb soon. AI doesn't just look at present day financials from what I understand and noticed from experience. They seem to look at the next year or 2 as well.

Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 08-28-2014 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 08-29-2014, 12:56 AM   #31
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So pretty much they don't want to pick up the extra salary.

That doesn't sound broken at all especially when the player in question is a closer. Are these teams in need of a closer and are they contending?

Considering he's 27 (or was that the minor leaguer's age?) Im sure he is up for arb soon. AI doesn't just look at present day financials from what I understand and noticed from experience. They seem to look at the next year or 2 as well.
Like I said early on, you can try to trade min salary guys who already starter-ready and get no real offers. The earlier trade I mentioned, the other team went from being worst to above .500, primarily due to the players I gave him. The ROY award is going to come down to three players that I gave this team, along with their new closer, in exchange for four mid-level prospects. I had to rob myself to get the AI to improve this team.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:10 AM   #32
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Trade Issues

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Originally Posted by ovccsteve View Post
Like I said early on, you can try to trade min salary guys who already starter-ready and get no real offers. The earlier trade I mentioned, the other team went from being worst to above .500, primarily due to the players I gave him. The ROY award is going to come down to three players that I gave this team, along with their new closer, in exchange for four mid-level prospects. I had to rob myself to get the AI to improve this team.

If they were a sub .500 then I am sure they were in rebuilding mode and was not interested in adding salary to compete for the playoffs.

If you would have took back players with similar contracts or gave that team money to cover the salary then I am sure they would have accepted.

Neasag pretty much confirmed it.


I play on Very Hard trading and do not have a problem unloading off my aging all star for Minor league prospects. I may not be able to rob them of all of their top prospects but I do get at least 1 top 100 guy and a bunch of fillers who may or may not develop into something.

Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 08-29-2014 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:18 AM   #33
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Do they need a closer? Relievers are easily replaceable.

Is scouting on? Whats the accuracy? Maybe your scout view those players differently than the AI's scout.

If scouting is not on, maybe the AI's manager/Or GM values prospects more than Vets.

Are they rebuilding, win now mode or normal?

There could be many reasons why that trade was rejected.

I would like to think the game's AI is smarter than "This guy is rated this, so I should get him for that"

We're so used to that from the Maddens and the other console sports games so I guess it's expected to be that simple.


FWIW, I play with very hard trading.

Madden and other console games aren't like that. Getting a fair trade in Madden is impossible. It's built that way on purpose because people would fleece AI teams as a couple have mentioned doing in OOTP.

The reason trading in Madden and other console games seems easier is because their are less, and many less, modifiers that go into the AI approving a trade than their are in OOTP. Which is a good thing.

I don't think anyone here is wanting 100% balanced trades but trades need to have an ebb and flow. Not just always one sided like it is right now.

---

Honestly I rarely even try to trade anymore except to dump salary. The new update completely took that aspect of the game away from me. I don't want to spend 30 minutes trying to make one trade. I used the shop-a-player to gauge interest and traded from there. I'm not scrolling through 50 teams picking individual players to see what the AI is willing to do.

With the current difficulty of trades their needs to be an interested teams list you can look at so you can at least not have to go through every team in your world to find a reasonable trade.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:28 AM   #34
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Trade Issues

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Originally Posted by ra7c7er View Post
Madden and other console games aren't like that. Getting a fair trade in Madden is impossible. It's built that way on purpose because people would fleece AI teams as a couple have mentioned doing in OOTP.

The reason trading in Madden and other console games seems easier is because their are less, and many less, modifiers that go into the AI approving a trade than their are in OOTP. Which is a good thing.

I don't think anyone here is wanting 100% balanced trades but trades need to have an ebb and flow. Not just always one sided like it is right now.

---

Honestly I rarely even try to trade anymore except to dump salary. The new update completely took that aspect of the game away from me. I don't want to spend 30 minutes trying to make one trade. I used the shop-a-player to gauge interest and traded from there. I'm not scrolling through 50 teams picking individual players to see what the AI is willing to do.

With the current difficulty of trades their needs to be an interested teams list you can look at so you can at least not have to go through every team in your world to find a reasonable trade.

That is how I've been using shop a player as well. The player the AI offers me might not even be in the final deal. I basically use shop a player to see what teams are interested and go from there. If I can't unload the player somewhere then I have to either get a deal that I find least favorable or wait it out for a better deal.

But I agree shop a player should definitely be expanded.

Last edited by SirMichaelJordan; 08-29-2014 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:34 AM   #35
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If I can't unload the player somewhere then I have to either get a deal that I find least favorable or wait it out for a better deal.
That's the thing about trading on the harder levels. You can usually always trade a guy, but not always on the same day you want to. Sometimes you just have to shop them for a while and see what turns up over the course of a month or so.

For me, that's much more realistic than trading on the old average level, where you could always shop a guy and get a bunch of decent deals immediately. That's not how it works irl, where it may take months to work out a deal and teams won't always immediately pursue even a good player on a moderate contract if they don't currently have a need for them.
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Old 08-29-2014, 01:36 AM   #36
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That's the thing about trading on the harder levels. You can usually always trade a guy, but not always on the same day you want to. Sometimes you just have to shop them for a while and see what turns up over the course of a month or so.



For me, that's much more realistic than trading on the old average level, where you could always shop a guy and get a bunch of decent deals immediately. That's not how it works irl, where it may take months to work out a deal and teams won't always immediately pursue even a good player if they don't currently have a need for them.

Yup, I once advanced a day and the offers were way different than the previous day.
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:34 PM   #37
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what trading difficulty are you guys recommending at this point?
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:30 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ra7c7er View Post

Also in the 250+ years of simming I've done testing league designs I've only had 1 trade request that was remotely even not in my favor but even. If you are sending me a trade request that means you want something I have. You should be giving up a bit more.

I dont have that much in this game but have extensively played FM2014 and I am a little dismayed I get so many trade requests in OOTP but none are remotely interesting. They are asking for five star potential rookies and offering one star nobodies or 3 star 15m/yr vets.

At a minimum there should be at least one or two apples to apples trade offers a year.
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Old 08-29-2014, 11:11 PM   #39
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I just finished doing all the 2014 MLB trade deadline deals.

Every last one of them was not something the AI would accept, with the responses ranging from "we're close" (1 time) to "Have you been eating lead paint all your life?" to "How did you get my number, is this a prank call?"

That's with the difficulty set on average.
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:04 AM   #40
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I just finished doing all the 2014 MLB trade deadline deals.

Every last one of them was not something the AI would accept, with the responses ranging from "we're close" (1 time) to "Have you been eating lead paint all your life?" to "How did you get my number, is this a prank call?"

That's with the difficulty set on average.
I want the game you have with these responses.
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