Final Standings Tie-breakers?

[Orioles1966]

Has this ever been discussed? Will the tie-breaker procedure be editable?

I've been following North American pro hockey since 1965 and can recall only one season ending tie-breaker game. It happened in the WHA in 1973 between Minnesota and Alberta and I think it was played at a neutral site(Calgary).

[tward13]

I don't know that the NHL has used tie-breaker games. Would seem to be a low priority item.

[shawa666]

Originally Posted by tward13

I don't know that the NHL has used tie-breaker games. Would seem to be a low priority item.

I don't think they do anymore.

[OpusTheFowl]

Right from NHL.com....maybe FHM will be something like this?

Tie-Breaking procedure * - Division leaders are seeded 1, 2, and 3 in Conference standings. If two or more clubs are tied in points during the regular season, the standing of the clubs is determined in the following order:

• The fewer number of games played (i.e., superior points percentage).
• The greater number of games won, excluding games won in the Shootout. This figure is reflected in the ROW column.
• The greater number of points earned in games between the tied clubs. If two clubs are tied, and have not played an equal number of home games against each other, points earned in the first game played in the city that had the extra game shall not be included. If more than two clubs are tied, the higher percentage of available points earned in games among those clubs, and not including any "odd" games, shall be used to determine the standing.
• The greater differential between goals for and against for the entire regular season. NOTE: In standings a victory in a shootout counts as one goal for, while a shootout loss counts as one goal against.

[Orioles1966]

What will be the tie--breaker procedure for FHM?

[Le Grande Orange]

If OOTP teaches us anything, it's that little details like this are actually enormously important.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

If OOTP teaches us anything, it's that little details like this are actually enormously important.

Yeah-it will be interesting too see how they handle this.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by tward13

I don't know that the NHL has used tie-breaker games. Would seem to be a low priority item.

Originally Posted by shawa666

I don't think they do anymore.

The NHL has never used a tie-breaking playoff game to settle a tie. Neither has the NBA as far as I can tell (nor its predecessor NBL and BAA). The ABA and WHA did use tie-breaking playoff games on occasion. The NFL (and AFL) also used tie-breaking playoff games in earlier years but they no longer do so.

MLB is the only one which still uses tie-breaking playoff games to settle a tie for a post-season berth.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The NHL has never used a tie-breaking playoff game to settle a tie. Neither has the NBA as far as I can tell (nor its predecessor NBL and BAA). The ABA and WHA did use tie-breaking playoff games on occasion. The NFL (and AFL) also used tie-breaking playoff games in earlier years but they no longer do so.

MLB is the only one which still uses tie-breaking playoff games to settle a tie for a post-season berth.

The ABA had a tie-breaker game that was never played. The court conditions were unplayable and the New Jersey Americans forfeited to the Kentucky Colonels.

[Wealthyfriends]

Tiebreaking settings would be such an easy thing to implement, so you can assume it will be included.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Wealthyfriends

Tiebreaking settings would be such an easy thing to implement, so you can assume it will be included.

I dunno about "easy". It's probably doable.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I dunno about "easy". It's probably doable.

I'd wager handling hockey's non-game tie-breaking methods is considerably easier than handling baseball's combination of tie-breaking game scenarios and non-game tie-breakers for seeding purposes.

[Orioles1966]

I'm a big fan of goal differential as being a tie-breaker. Regulation time wins should be the first tie-breaker.

Maybe the tie-breakers will be editable. The bigger the league,the harder it is too break ties since there's a good chance that you would need to go to the third or fourth tie-breaker.

[tward13]

Are there that many different methods used around the world? I'd imagine as in OOTP the official method for the main leagues would be used. Doesn't seem to be a big issue for the NHL or cause much discussion each year.

[Wealthyfriends]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I dunno about "easy". It's probably doable.

It's a simple sort routine, No problem. They need to implement a tiebreaker format to actually display the standings so it wouldn't be a problem to give users the ability to select each tiebreaker step.

[tward13]

Originally Posted by Wealthyfriends

It's a simple sort routine, No problem. They need to implement a tiebreaker format to actually display the standings so it wouldn't be a problem to give users the ability to select each tiebreaker step.

Except that the options would then have to be lengthy (or why bother). You could have any combination or wins, regulation wins, point differentials, head to head matchups (with or without considering extra home games), etc, etc.

Why not just go with the real life rules and save the programming for game play development.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by tward13

Except that the options would then have to be lenghty (or why bother). You could have any combination or wins, regulation wins, point differentials, head to head matchups (with or without considering extra home games), etc, etc.

Why not just go with the real life rules and save the programming for game play development.

That's easier said than done. They still have problems breaking ties with OOTP13. I had a one game playoff between two teams and neither team advanced. Didn't think that was possible and still trying to figure out why the game was played too begin with.

[tward13]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

That's easier said than done. They still have problems breaking ties with OOTP13. I had a one game playoff between two teams and neither team advanced. Didn't think that was possible and still trying to figure out why the game was played too begin with.

Maybe it was someone's deepest desire and wish for further immersion.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by tward13

Except that the options would then have to be lengthy (or why bother). You could have any combination or wins, regulation wins, point differentials, head to head matchups (with or without considering extra home games), etc, etc.

I'd recommend (1) researching the tie-breaking steps used in real-world leagues; (2) distilling the options available in real life down to a reasonable number of steps (if there are a lot of different methods); (3) order that distilled list into a sequence of steps; (4) make that the standard list of tie-breaking options that will apply to all leagues in VHM; (5) allow the user to enable which of those tie-breaking steps they want active in that particular league.

So, for example, if there are a total of 6 possible steps in the final list, a user might opt to have steps #1, #2, #4, and #6 apply to their league. Or they might prefer to use #1, #3, #4, #5, and #6.

Non-game tie-breaking is really just a series of steps. So on it's face it ought not to be hard to provide this sort of customization.

(In baseball it's a whole different story. You've got tie-breaking playoff game scenarios which depend on whether it's two tied teams, three tied teams, if the teams are tied just for the division title, if they're tied for both a division title and wild card spot, there's split-season format leagues which require additional rules in regards to first half and second half ties, etcetera and so forth. Add to all of that non-game tie-breaking procedures for determining playoff seeding. Hockey's a piece of cake compared to that.)

[tward13]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'd recommend (1) researching the tie-breaking steps used in real-world leagues; (2) distilling the options available in real life down to a reasonable number of steps (if there are a lot of different methods); (3) order that distilled list into a sequence of steps; (4) make that the standard list of tie-breaking options that will apply to all leagues in VHM; (5) allow the user to enable which of those tie-breaking steps they want active in that particular league.

So, for example, if there are a total of 6 possible steps in the final list, a user might opt to have steps #1, #2, #4, and #6 apply to their league. Or they might prefer to use #1, #3, #4, #5, and #6.

Non-game tie-breaking is really just a series of steps. So on it's face it ought not to be hard to provide this sort of customization.

(In baseball it's a whole different story. You've got tie-breaking playoff game scenarios which depend on whether it's two tied teams, three tied teams, if the teams are tied just for the division title, if they're tied for both a division title and wild card spot, there's split-season format leagues which require additional rules in regards to first half and second half ties, etcetera and so forth. Add to all of that non-game tie-breaking procedures for determining playoff seeding. Hockey's a piece of cake compared to that.)

Ah, but here you're suggesting they use the rules that have existed in real life. But if you've read enough of these threads you'd know that some would want/expect/demand endless scenarios and options to meet they're fantasy desires.