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View Poll Results: Are Unsolicited Advertising PMs Tolerable
I actually like getting them 3 8.82%
I don't mind getting them 17 50.00%
I wish they'd never get sent 13 38.24%
Other, explain 1 2.94%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-11-2009, 04:34 PM   #1
kq76
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Are Unsolicited Advertising PMs Tolerable?

Recently someone said this wasn't exactly kosher and I kind of agree, but I was under the impression that I was actually in the minority on that. I'm not sure we've ever taken a poll on this, but even if we have maybe it's time to see if opinion has changed.

When I first started a league I struggled with this question: should I PM forum members asking them if they'd be interested in our league or should I not? I didn't really want to as I felt it could annoy some, but I felt I should to give the new league it's best chance at getting off the ground right. I asked a few people I trusted and as best as I can recall each one said go ahead so despite some misgivings I did. I think I PMd or emailed over a couple hundred members (and let me tell you it took a long time to do that!) and while I got plenty of no thanks there really was only one person who let into me for it. I felt kind of bad, but a couple others said forget about him, he's probably just grouchy anyway. If someone is wondering how successful it was, I didn't keep stats on the success rate, but my recollection is it must have been in the low single digits. In the end you have to wonder whether it's doing more harm than good and it certainly isn't a quick easy task.

Years later I now get the odd PM or email asking me to join someone's league. I never say yes (I'm very rarely interested in joining leagues anyway and the likelihood of being interested in a random league is extremely low) and I guess sometimes it bugs me if the ad is long or if I feel like I might come off as a bit of a jerk if I don't at least reply, but generally I just close it and go on to the next thing. I've thought about making an IOLD for managers instead of leagues, but the rate of things I'd like to get to and never do is pretty high and I doubt it'd get used much anyway.

So what are your thoughts on these PMs? They're fine or you'd really like to never get them?

EDIT: I'm making this a public poll so advertisers can exclude or include certain people based off it in the future.

EDIT2: This poll is more asking about those PMs coming from people whom you don't really know, messages that are more like mass emails to strangers than personalized invitations to friends.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:44 PM   #2
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When I was heavily recruiting for my league, the USPA, I only contacted people who posted in the "Looking for a League to Join? Post In This Thread!" That is definitely the best way to go about it, rather than PM people who aren't actually looking to join a new league.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:16 PM   #3
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Doesn't bother me in the least.

No different than getting junk mail anyway, everyone has a delete option.

I've had a few over the years and always replied, either with an "I'm interested", or a polite no thanks.

I think if the Commish is taking enough time to recruit specific people, he's pretty serious about the league, which equates to a better than avg chance it will be a good league. I figure if he took the time to PM and ask me specifically, he at least deserves the same courtesy in return in a reply. If anyone is that pressed for time they can't reply...I mean how long does it take to type "No Thanks" and hit the send button?

PS - your poll isn't public - no names of voters showing.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:19 PM   #4
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Yeah, I don't mind the occasional unsolicited PM - only if they make it seem like they're actually interested in ME.

I got one the other day (name and league withheld to protect the guilty) that had at least a dozen names in the To field. THAT bothers me.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:21 PM   #5
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No problem here. If they're incessant or start linking to ED Rx's, I'll be annoyed.

Unless they're free Rx's.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:23 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceM View Post
PS - your poll isn't public - no names of voters showing.
Hmm, I see them, but that could just be a moderator thing. The option for it is ticked though. You tried clicking on the number link, right?
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76 View Post
Hmm, I see them, but that could just be a moderator thing. The option for it is ticked though. You tried clicking on the number link, right?
The poll is public. I'm assuming he just didn't click on the number.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afino View Post
Yeah, I don't mind the occasional unsolicited PM - only if they make it seem like they're actually interested in ME.

I got one the other day (name and league withheld to protect the guilty) that had at least a dozen names in the To field. THAT bothers me.
That's a good point. I actually like getting them from people I'm chummy with. I'm still unlikely to be interested in joining, but I at least like checking out friends are cooking up. And even if someone isn't interested in joining they still might think to later point out your league to someone who is interested in something like it.

I think we can say this poll is mainly for those PMs coming from people whom are mostly complete strangers to you.

I kind of see your point about the mass emails, but I don't really subscribe to it because I know I sometimes separate emails to look like they're only going to that person when they're really not so others probably do the same too. Then there's those mass emails where they really are more personal, but you're just making it easier to send.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:51 PM   #9
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I don't mind them so much because it helps me formulate a list of leagues I would not ever join. It's really hard to find good leagues and seeing a commissioner/recruiter more or less send out mass mailers to everyone walking down the street shows me that they don't care about the quality of players they get.
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Old 04-11-2009, 06:47 PM   #10
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Actually, that one that I just posted about was the first one that I had received in at least a month or two.

When they're that far apart, they're actually welcome.
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Old 04-12-2009, 03:30 PM   #11
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I'd be flattered to be asked to join an online league (although I'm currently at my limit), I don't think I've even gotten an invitation.

I've invited certain people to join my online leagues, but it's been on a very limited basis—I've never asked more than two or three at a time, and it's usually been just one. If there's someone here whom I respect, and would like to have in my league, I've always felt comfortable asking them. Yet I don't do it anymore: I have to echo kq's assessment that few people are going to join one's league, on the basis of an invite. Most people who frequent these boards are familiar with the present openings, and if they want to join a league, they'll take the initiative on their own. Also echoing kq, I'd say that everyone has their own particular preferences, when it comes to the type of league they want to join, so it's pointless to invite someone into a type of league which they don't like. Personally, I'd never join a modern real-player league.

A lot of it does depend on the circumstances: do you already "know" the person to whom you're sending the PM? do you know what kind of leagues they like to play in? If the answers to these questions is "yes," then a PM is certainly fitting.
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Old 04-12-2009, 09:43 PM   #12
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If I got a PM from someone I know (relative to a board like this) to me alone I'd be fine with it. The one I got last week was spam IMO and should be on the no do list. If you are just farming names and sending broadcast PM's, why not post in the public forums.

It's certainly OOTPD's call on this and I would not have a hissy fit if they permit them. If my opinion counts then mark me as no.
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Old 04-12-2009, 10:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
If I got a PM from someone I know (relative to a board like this) to me alone I'd be fine with it. The one I got last week was spam IMO and should be on the no do list. If you are just farming names and sending broadcast PM's, why not post in the public forums.

It's certainly OOTPD's call on this and I would not have a hissy fit if they permit them. If my opinion counts then mark me as no.
You must have got the same one I did.
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Old 04-15-2009, 03:43 PM   #14
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Ok, I've received two TODAY from a guy (i_davis2001) and its become a nuisance. Can a mod do something about PMs going to MULTIPLE users. That's the definition of spam in my book.
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Old 04-15-2009, 04:14 PM   #15
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A very long time ago when I was doing up a league I would send PM's of gauging interest to aprties that I felt would be good GM's. I would do multipl e(five was the max then. No idea if it's the same) due to saving on amount of PM's sent.

As for my opinion if it's single or a small group, and looks like the person bothered to put an effort into it great. The rest? no. I'd actualyl recommened advertising the league in the correct sub-forum over PM's.
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Old 04-15-2009, 04:45 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooleyvol View Post
Ok, I've received two TODAY from a guy (i_davis2001) and its become a nuisance. Can a mod do something about PMs going to MULTIPLE users. That's the definition of spam in my book.
Sending someone two PMs on the same topic, in apparent disregard for the recipient, is a breach of netiquette.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooleyvol View Post
Ok, I've received two TODAY from a guy (i_davis2001) and its become a nuisance. Can a mod do something about PMs going to MULTIPLE users. That's the definition of spam in my book.
Same guy who sent to me and others a week or so back. Despite the general acceptance as seen by this poll I think the PM spammer should be told to mind his manners.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooleyvol View Post
Ok, I've received two TODAY from a guy (i_davis2001) and its become a nuisance. Can a mod do something about PMs going to MULTIPLE users. That's the definition of spam in my book.
I don't want to ask the admins to disable mass PMs just because one user may or mat not be abusing the feature. I'm curious though.. you admin a vbulletin board, is it possible to just disable mass PM sending for select users? I wouldn't necessarily ask them that we do that, but I wonder if it is at least an option.

For anybody who is wondering what you can do to avoid these PMs, you have 3 options as far as I know (all of which you can do from the User CP link above then selecting Edit Options):

-disable PMs entirely
-disable PMs from users other than contacts and mods
-ignore select users (recommended)
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kq76 View Post
I don't want to ask the admins to disable mass PMs just because one user may or mat not be abusing the feature. I'm curious though.. you admin a vbulletin board, is it possible to just disable mass PM sending for select users? I wouldn't necessarily ask them that we do that, but I wonder if it is at least an option.

For anybody who is wondering what you can do to avoid these PMs, you have 3 options as far as I know (all of which you can do from the User CP link above then selecting Edit Options):

-disable PMs entirely
-disable PMs from users other than contacts and mods
-ignore select users (recommended)
Why?

There are not even 10 people doing this. As far as I can see it is one user and he is new. Why can't a mod contact him via PM and suggest a better course of action.

A short time ago I started a risky thread that could have been nasty. A mod contacted me while deleting the post and explained his reasoning. I agreed and my temporary lack of manners was finished. I'm not sure why 10's or 100's of posters should have to put one guy on ignore in this case.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Why?

There are not even 10 people doing this. As far as I can see it is one user and he is new. Why can't a mod contact him via PM and suggest a better course of action.

A short time ago I started a risky thread that could have been nasty. A mod contacted me while deleting the post and explained his reasoning. I agreed and my temporary lack of manners was finished. I'm not sure why 10's or 100's of posters should have to put one guy on ignore in this case.
I actually, before I saw your post, just drafted a PM to send to him and sent it to someone else for some quick feedback. I'm sure i_davis already knows he's been bugging people with these PMs (he has voted), but perhaps we can, as you said, suggest better. I'll definitely send something.

Some things I'll probably recommend are:
-don't send to people who have said in this poll that they don't like to receive them
-keep a list of whom you sent to so you don't accidentally soon send them another
-don't send mass PMs as they seem to draw more ire than individual PMs

Can you think of anything else?

I don't want to give him or anyone else a warning in the future over these and I don't want to take away the ability of anybody to send PMs (if that is even possible). As the poll shows, opinion is pretty divided on this, but I do think there are certain things one can do to lessen the chances of bothering people.

He's not new by the way. Unless you mean to commishing which he may or may not be. I suspect he is. Let's try to keep in mind that we all had to learn netiquette once and maybe he's just still learning. Trying to fill a league isn't always easy and so at least he's trying, but maybe he could do it in a more effective way that attracts less negative attention.
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