Owner Goals Need Big Overhaul

Murph3 · 01-11-2019, 11:56 PM

So, I just started a historical sim with the 1988 Atlanta Braves, who were a terrible 54-106 IRL, and in the game they have the 20th largest payroll. So, you would expect an owner goal of “Don’t completely suck” or something like that. Instead my owner goal is to achieve a winning record in 1988. What? A winning record with this team? Maybe next year in my rebuild, but this is totally unrealistic and needs a major overhaul in OOTP 20 IMO. Agree?

BTW, I don’t post much, but I’ve been playing OOTP since v6.5. Amazing game, but this is one of the things that could use some work. Good thing I use “Cannot be fired.”

NoOne · 01-12-2019, 05:40 AM

lots of irrational owners out there... if the personality is extreme, it makes sense in some contexts.

could it use more depth or smoothing out -- all i can say is maybe/likely. this is a feature i religiously turn off.

i am a firm believer that a percentage of the population is inevitably irrational. figuratively, pick a # out of a hat, and they permeate society at all levels - nepotism and class related cultural reasons. eventually 1 of those irrational people will and have been an owner over time. imo, it would be wrong if none of the 30 owners had bat-s%$t crazy demands in owner goals of the game.

as far as being fired, if you win you get a longer leash. you don't have to satisfy every goal given to retain your job. you can ignore the stupid requests that hurt the team and keep him happy with the simple requests and winning in general. even though i don't play with it on, i know this is the case -- not an assumption.

Brad K · 01-12-2019, 09:59 AM

Murph, have you ever worked for a family owned business? If so then you ought to recognize owners in the game are reasonably accurate... that is, unreasonable.

Ty Cobb · 01-12-2019, 01:31 PM

Team owners tend to have the stability level of late generation Hapsburg or Romanov descendants. Evidence: Turner, Steinbrenner, Schott.

LegalEagle80 · 01-17-2019, 02:54 PM

I do agree it's realistic that some owners are just irrational, but I also turn that feature of the game completely off.

The reason is, what does it really add to the experience? If you make the owner happy, the reward is....getting to keep doing what you were doing. If you fail, you can get fired, and then you...start the game over? Sure, you can keep going with a minor league team or something, but I would guess not many people actually do that.

There's just not a big risk/reward for having the owner intervene.

Ball Four · 01-17-2019, 03:38 PM

It seems to me that there`s no difference between a owners goals with a large team or a small team.

I`m playing the promotion/relegation quick start that comes with the game.

I`m in league 3 (A ball) and after 2 seasons my owner wants me to sign a league MVP !,there`s only ever been 2 in league 3, and there`s not a hope in hell of sighning anyone from the higher leagues...

Talking of unrealistic things aswell,the job offers for just finishing below .500 in my first season (reputation inexperienced) are crazy,I had a choice of 8 ML teams!

cavebutter · 01-17-2019, 05:27 PM

Not everyone plays the game like this, but I enjoy the chance of being fired. I don't have "my team or bust" feelings about any team in my league. I try to complete the goals that I find reasonable or won't hurt the team and take my chances. If I get fired, there's plenty of other teams out there. And it has not been my experience that getting fired keeps other ML teams from offering me a job. (And I'm not a very good GM!)

BirdWatcher · 01-17-2019, 05:45 PM

I play with owner goals enabled (so far, I could easily change my approach over time) but with the can't be fired setting on. I know that is kind of silly as it means there really is no pressure for me to meet the owner's goals to keep my job. But I sort of try to forget that I can't be fired while running a team and although I believe very much in ignoring some owner's goals when they are just absolutely ridiculous, for the most part I try to meet them. Mostly just because it gives me another challenge even if there are no real ramifications if I fail.
I'm also by nature a people pleaser so even though intellectually I know that my owner is just code in a game- not an actual person- I find myself wanting to please him and feeling a sense of satisfaction when he heaps praise on me for doing what he asked. (And a sense of foreboding when I know the time is coming for him to review my actions and he isn't going to be happy about something and I'm due for a scolding.)

majesty95 · 01-17-2019, 08:32 PM

I agree owners are kind of a waste right now. Especially in historicals. We have too much knowledge of reality and the owners the game creates are usually way off. That coupled with their unrealistic and, sometimes just weird, requests make them almost unusable.

Gruber_Tagged_Him · 01-18-2019, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I play with owner goals enabled (so far, I could easily change my approach over time) but with the can't be fired setting on. I know that is kind of silly as it means there really is no pressure for me to meet the owner's goals to keep my job. But I sort of try to forget that I can't be fired while running a team and although I believe very much in ignoring some owner's goals when they are just absolutely ridiculous, for the most part I try to meet them. Mostly just because it gives me another challenge even if there are no real ramifications if I fail.
I'm also by nature a people pleaser so even though intellectually I know that my owner is just code in a game- not an actual person- I find myself wanting to please him and feeling a sense of satisfaction when he heaps praise on me for doing what he asked. (And a sense of foreboding when I know the time is coming for him to review my actions and he isn't going to be happy about something and I'm due for a scolding.)

Oh, good. It's not just me.

Sidebar - or maybe more related to the OP than the above: I have been trying to satisfy my owner's desire to "sign a hometown talent". I have signed/traded for 3 different players all from my team's city - two in minors, one in majors. The goal remains unfulfilled. I think I give up...

NoOne · 01-19-2019, 07:55 AM

maybe that means an extension of someone you have developed from minors? maybe drafted?

probably some minimal quality...

if you get one you are not sure of...save then do 1 thing to see if it satisfies it... likely takes 1 year zoom to see? rinse/repeat with backup. can 'force' certain contexts to test... like 3 drafted players in minors with specific ratings values... see if low/mid/high matters etc...

e.g. someone made a thread about what a "power" hitter is... i can't recall if it's ratings of # of hr they hit that matters... that thread has some info on this particular goal. i think he fleshed it out a bit.

MightyVotto · 01-19-2019, 09:27 AM

I just wish there was an opportunity to discuss the goals with the owner. Maybe change his/her mind on a completely unreasonable one. Like when you have an over-the-hill star and they insist on giving him an extension. You could explain that if you do this, it hurts the team since they'd be too expensive for the performance you'd get back. Or something like that. If your rep is better, maybe you have a better chance of changing their mind. Or maybe it's really hard to change their mind based on their personality.

tward13 · 01-19-2019, 11:22 AM

I turn them off. Unwanted noise. They often make no sense.

Juggernt · 01-20-2019, 10:52 AM

I play with them on for added flavor. The one that needs to go away is wanting to sign the already-overpaid, skill-declining mid- to late-30s veteran to another extension.

LegalEagle80 · 01-22-2019, 12:20 PM

I play with the Cubs, and my owner just asked me to "get a bench player for the veteran's minimum and spin him to the press as a difference-maker for the upcoming season" and "say nothing while I collude with other owners to drive down player salaries" so I think it's ultra realistic!

NoOne · 01-23-2019, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegalEagle80

I play with the Cubs, and my owner just asked me to "get a bench player for the veteran's minimum and spin him to the press as a difference-maker for the upcoming season" and "say nothing while I collude with other owners to drive down player salaries" so I think it's ultra realistic!

are you saying we can't trust these amazing "job creators" to do what's morally and ethically best? they won't share revenue in a fair and meaningful way with those that are 99.9% responsible for creating said revenue?

say it ain't so!

remember, if you are stuck in a job that can't pay the bills, that makes you a lazy moocher in a "job creator's" eyes... not that they are paying you dirt has anything to do with the outcome.

the people that do the least take the most, and it isn't the poor guy trying to make ends meet, lol. think about an owner.. they do virutally nothing. at best, they do nothing.. at worst the whimsically insert themseleves into decisions they aren't qualified to be making.

jmount78 · 01-23-2019, 12:19 PM

In Football Manager, you get an option to discuss some business decisions such as request money to upgrade training facilities, etc. Doing something similar with scouting or player development would be pretty nice.

Matt Arnold · 01-23-2019, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernt

I play with them on for added flavor. The one that needs to go away is wanting to sign the already-overpaid, skill-declining mid- to late-30s veteran to another extension.

You mean the most realistic one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

maybe that means an extension of someone you have developed from minors? maybe drafted?

probably some minimal quality...

if you get one you are not sure of...save then do 1 thing to see if it satisfies it... likely takes 1 year zoom to see? rinse/repeat with backup. can 'force' certain contexts to test... like 3 drafted players in minors with specific ratings values... see if low/mid/high matters etc...

e.g. someone made a thread about what a "power" hitter is... i can't recall if it's ratings of # of hr they hit that matters... that thread has some info on this particular goal. i think he fleshed it out a bit.

The hometown one is tough, since there's some weird rules to figure out what "counts" (ie. if you're playing in NYC, then signing someone with a hometown of Brooklyn should count). The best way to see who should satisfy that criteria is to use the find player feature, which I believe has a checkmark for a "hometown" player. That one will also fail sometimes if you world DB isn't set exactly right, or if there are duplicate cities or the geo coordinates are off, for example. But for any of this, the player needs to be on the MLB roster to satisfy the conditions, so signing minor league guys shouldn't count

IanIachimoe · 01-24-2019, 12:27 PM

I enjoy owner goals, adds a little something extra IMO.

haven't really had much problem with them.

Clavette · 01-24-2019, 03:04 PM

I'm not a fan of my owner telling me I need an upgrade at C SS or CF when I have a guy that's a defensive whiz since that's basically what the game requires for success

01-11-2019, 11:56 PM	#1
Murph3 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 90	Owner Goals Need Big Overhaul So, I just started a historical sim with the 1988 Atlanta Braves, who were a terrible 54-106 IRL, and in the game they have the 20th largest payroll. So, you would expect an owner goal of “Don’t completely suck” or something like that. Instead my owner goal is to achieve a winning record in 1988. What? A winning record with this team? Maybe next year in my rebuild, but this is totally unrealistic and needs a major overhaul in OOTP 20 IMO. Agree? BTW, I don’t post much, but I’ve been playing OOTP since v6.5. Amazing game, but this is one of the things that could use some work. Good thing I use “Cannot be fired.”

01-12-2019, 05:40 AM	#2
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	lots of irrational owners out there... if the personality is extreme, it makes sense in some contexts. could it use more depth or smoothing out -- all i can say is maybe/likely. this is a feature i religiously turn off. i am a firm believer that a percentage of the population is inevitably irrational. figuratively, pick a # out of a hat, and they permeate society at all levels - nepotism and class related cultural reasons. eventually 1 of those irrational people will and have been an owner over time. imo, it would be wrong if none of the 30 owners had bat-s%$t crazy demands in owner goals of the game. as far as being fired, if you win you get a longer leash. you don't have to satisfy every goal given to retain your job. you can ignore the stupid requests that hurt the team and keep him happy with the simple requests and winning in general. even though i don't play with it on, i know this is the case -- not an assumption. Last edited by NoOne; 01-12-2019 at 05:43 AM.

01-12-2019, 01:31 PM	#4
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,952 Blog Entries: 67	Team owners tend to have the stability level of late generation Hapsburg or Romanov descendants. Evidence: Turner, Steinbrenner, Schott. __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance.—Thomas Sowell "Alinsky works for me now."

01-17-2019, 05:27 PM	#7
cavebutter All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,158	Not everyone plays the game like this, but I enjoy the chance of being fired. I don't have "my team or bust" feelings about any team in my league. I try to complete the goals that I find reasonable or won't hurt the team and take my chances. If I get fired, there's plenty of other teams out there. And it has not been my experience that getting fired keeps other ML teams from offering me a job. (And I'm not a very good GM!) __________________ MySQL, MyStruggle - A self-indulgent blog about my attempts to roll my own MySQL Database with OOTP Logo Gallery

01-17-2019, 08:32 PM	#9
majesty95 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,755	I agree owners are kind of a waste right now. Especially in historicals. We have too much knowledge of reality and the owners the game creates are usually way off. That coupled with their unrealistic and, sometimes just weird, requests make them almost unusable. __________________ College Football Sim League \| '95 Problems Online League

01-12-2019, 09:59 AM	#3
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,436	Murph, have you ever worked for a family owned business? If so then you ought to recognize owners in the game are reasonably accurate... that is, unreasonable.

01-17-2019, 02:54 PM	#5
LegalEagle80 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 113	I do agree it's realistic that some owners are just irrational, but I also turn that feature of the game completely off. The reason is, what does it really add to the experience? If you make the owner happy, the reward is....getting to keep doing what you were doing. If you fail, you can get fired, and then you...start the game over? Sure, you can keep going with a minor league team or something, but I would guess not many people actually do that. There's just not a big risk/reward for having the owner intervene.

01-17-2019, 03:38 PM	#6
Ball Four Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 33	It seems to me that there`s no difference between a owners goals with a large team or a small team. I`m playing the promotion/relegation quick start that comes with the game. I`m in league 3 (A ball) and after 2 seasons my owner wants me to sign a league MVP !,there`s only ever been 2 in league 3, and there`s not a hope in hell of sighning anyone from the higher leagues... Talking of unrealistic things aswell,the job offers for just finishing below .500 in my first season (reputation inexperienced) are crazy,I had a choice of 8 ML teams!

01-17-2019, 05:45 PM	#8
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,262	I play with owner goals enabled (so far, I could easily change my approach over time) but with the can't be fired setting on. I know that is kind of silly as it means there really is no pressure for me to meet the owner's goals to keep my job. But I sort of try to forget that I can't be fired while running a team and although I believe very much in ignoring some owner's goals when they are just absolutely ridiculous, for the most part I try to meet them. Mostly just because it gives me another challenge even if there are no real ramifications if I fail. I'm also by nature a people pleaser so even though intellectually I know that my owner is just code in a game- not an actual person- I find myself wanting to please him and feeling a sense of satisfaction when he heaps praise on me for doing what he asked. (And a sense of foreboding when I know the time is coming for him to review my actions and he isn't going to be happy about something and I'm due for a scolding.)

01-19-2019, 07:55 AM	#11
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	maybe that means an extension of someone you have developed from minors? maybe drafted? probably some minimal quality... if you get one you are not sure of...save then do 1 thing to see if it satisfies it... likely takes 1 year zoom to see? rinse/repeat with backup. can 'force' certain contexts to test... like 3 drafted players in minors with specific ratings values... see if low/mid/high matters etc... e.g. someone made a thread about what a "power" hitter is... i can't recall if it's ratings of # of hr they hit that matters... that thread has some info on this particular goal. i think he fleshed it out a bit. Last edited by NoOne; 01-19-2019 at 07:57 AM.

01-19-2019, 09:27 AM	#12
MightyVotto Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 123	I just wish there was an opportunity to discuss the goals with the owner. Maybe change his/her mind on a completely unreasonable one. Like when you have an over-the-hill star and they insist on giving him an extension. You could explain that if you do this, it hurts the team since they'd be too expensive for the performance you'd get back. Or something like that. If your rep is better, maybe you have a better chance of changing their mind. Or maybe it's really hard to change their mind based on their personality.

01-19-2019, 11:22 AM	#13
tward13 All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,957	I turn them off. Unwanted noise. They often make no sense.

01-20-2019, 10:52 AM	#14
Juggernt Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 357	I play with them on for added flavor. The one that needs to go away is wanting to sign the already-overpaid, skill-declining mid- to late-30s veteran to another extension.

01-22-2019, 12:20 PM	#15
LegalEagle80 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 113	I play with the Cubs, and my owner just asked me to "get a bench player for the veteran's minimum and spin him to the press as a difference-maker for the upcoming season" and "say nothing while I collude with other owners to drive down player salaries" so I think it's ultra realistic!

01-23-2019, 12:19 PM	#17
jmount78 Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Carolina Posts: 304	In Football Manager, you get an option to discuss some business decisions such as request money to upgrade training facilities, etc. Doing something similar with scouting or player development would be pretty nice.

01-24-2019, 12:27 PM	#19
IanIachimoe All Star Starter Join Date: May 2014 Location: paper st. Posts: 1,044	I enjoy owner goals, adds a little something extra IMO. haven't really had much problem with them. __________________

01-24-2019, 03:04 PM	#20
Clavette Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Connecticut Posts: 371	I'm not a fan of my owner telling me I need an upgrade at C SS or CF when I have a guy that's a defensive whiz since that's basically what the game requires for success