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Old 01-27-2020, 05:22 PM   #41
G-Force
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Man. Brutal. Feel for everyone involved. I thought the Mamba would outlive me.

This was so wide reaching that even kids on the 2nd grade playground were talking about it this morning. I walked past 3 separate conversations about it.

Trying to think of the last shocking-too-early big name athlete death. Arthur Ashe we all saw coming. Has to be Clemente?

Munson, I'd think. The most recent that's even close is Jose Fernandez, but he wasn't at Kobe's stature. Even Munson wasn't, I don't believe, national in scope like Clemente was. Perhaps I'm wrong about that though.


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Old 01-27-2020, 05:37 PM   #42
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Sad to say, but the pilot probably gets paid per flight. Thought he could make it. Probably flown in these conditions before. Union guys or airline pilots probably get paid regardless. So they'll take no chances. But I'm just guessing at how the pilot gets paid. Just an educated guess.
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Old 01-27-2020, 05:45 PM   #43
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Sad to say, but the pilot probably gets paid per flight. Thought he could make it. Probably flown in these conditions before. Union guys or airline pilots probably get paid regardless. So they'll take no chances. But I'm just guessing at how the pilot gets paid. Just an educated guess.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:10 PM   #44
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How soon we forget.

Another NBA Star who died at age 41.
All time leading college scorer.
While in 8th grade played for his high school team that won state championship.

RIP Pete Maravich.
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Old 01-27-2020, 08:40 PM   #45
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Very sad. I was kinda numb for a while after reading it. He is one of the first whose career I followed from start to finish, and many debates were had whether he was "like" or "better than" Mike. As far as I am concerned, he is at least the next best one after Mike, but a true legend. A more gracious and down to earth superstar is hard to find.

Roy Halladay was also a devastating loss, but due to baseball being a different kind of a sport where you "only" saw Halladay every 4-5 days, I don't think he had as much of an impact to everyone. Everyone who followed baseball was devastated, but those outside baseball probably didn't know as much about Roy Halladay as much as those outside of basketball know about Kobe Bryant.

Very sad and tragic.
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Old 01-27-2020, 09:20 PM   #46
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Sad to say, but the pilot probably gets paid per flight. Thought he could make it. Probably flown in these conditions before. Union guys or airline pilots probably get paid regardless. So they'll take no chances. But I'm just guessing at how the pilot gets paid. Just an educated guess.
He was Byrants personal pilot and Kobe would never fly with anyone else. We should let the NTSB finish it’s investigation before we decide who is at fault. It will probably be a combination of things.
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:32 AM   #47
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Len Bias is a name that comes to mind. Thurman Munson. Dale Earnhardt. Hank Gathers. Derrick Thomas. Lyman Bostock was big when I was a kid. Those were all playing and in their prime.

Out of all of them, Gathers was the biggest shock to me. Dude just dunked & then didn't make it back to half court. I'll never forget that one. People don't drop dead after dunking.
Reggie Lewis was the one that comes to mind for me. My fave player at the time. Total class SO unlike many athletes, especially today's NBA players. Could throw down serious dunks but NEVER posed, showed anybody up, or trash-talked. Just went about his business... Great all-around player and, by all accounts, a great human being.

Saw his last game in April '93 - his first playoff game as the unquestioned leader of the C's (Bird had retired). Eager to show that he was ready for his new role (and to counter criticism that his opposite number on the Hornets - Kendall Gill - owned him), he torched the Charlotte for 17 points in just 13 minutes (his minutes being just a few in each half due to an irregular heartbeat, dizziness, and first half collapse that nobody understood in that moment). Three months later, he was gone, having collapsed on a practice court.

He missed the rest of the Hornets series (and Kevin McHale retired at the end of it) as a precaution. Then, a few weeks later he was - questionably, in hindsight - given a tentative green light to get back on the court. In late July he went to the gym to work on the only weakness in his game - his three-point shot. After shooting for about an hour in what was no more than a light workout for him, he collapsed and died... I'll never forget when my buddy called me up that evening and mentioned it as though I already knew (I didn't). I was in a daze for days. Very tragic.

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Old 01-28-2020, 09:45 AM   #48
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As an aviation meteorologist for more than 30 years, a CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) is almost a certainty.

The pilot, when faced with rough terrain, and fog/stratus severely restricting forward visibility, should have stopped, and went vertical. You're not going to crash into anything if you are going straight up. He could have then gotten his bearings, or went back the way he came.
He should have gone vertical. But he was limited to at or below 2500 because of the traffic. So for him to go vertical, he would have admitted he couldn't see, then caused a delay as the scramble the airport traffic out of his way and then he has to answer a lot of questions. It's his hubris that caused this.

I know I'm blaming the pilot and it could have been a malfunction, but by the witness accounts, air traffic radio and the fact he flew 180 MPH into the side of a hill, if it isn't the pilot's fault, I'd be surprised.

This witness in particular.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:08 PM   #49
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He should have gone vertical. But he was limited to at or below 2500 because of the traffic. So for him to go vertical, he would have admitted he couldn't see, then caused a delay as the scramble the airport traffic out of his way and then he has to answer a lot of questions. It's his hubris that caused this.

I know I'm blaming the pilot and it could have been a malfunction, but by the witness accounts, air traffic radio and the fact he flew 180 MPH into the side of a hill, if it isn't the pilot's fault, I'd be surprised.

This witness in particular.
I don't drive my car at 80 mph in a dense fog..that's suicidal.

Here's a quick story. I was the Commander of a base weather station in England. We had the A-10's, in fact we were the first base outside of the US to house them. They were daytime VFR, and field minimums for the highest rated pilots were 700 foot ceilings and visibility 1 mile or greater.

So...I see a fog bank coming in from the east, where the North Sea was just a few miles away. I notify the control tower that visibility will rapidly decrease. There were 30 planes on the way home from the gunnery range up in the Norwich area..about an hours' flight time.

As the trainee pilots landed, I dropped the official weather observation down to the next category...from 3 miles, then to 2 miles. The next set of pilots landed, rated to land at 2 miles or greater. Did I have 2 miles visibility at the time? Ummm...no. I couldn't see the tree line, 1.7 miles away. We used fixed points around the base, at a known distance, to help us determine prevailing visibility.

To end a long story, it was flat out foggy when the last pilot landed, the Wing Commander. He stopped by the weather station a little while later, and asked if I was the one doing the weather observations. I said I was..and he said thanks, and then told me "don't ever do this again."
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:10 PM   #50
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At 150 miles per hour, this is 2 and a half miles per minute, or roughly 13 thousand feet in 60 seconds, or 220 feet per second. Add a half second reaction time, and your moving/reacting at about a football field every second. This doesn't work well when you are flying in dense fog/clouds.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:32 PM   #51
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At 150 miles per hour, this is 2 and a half miles per minute, or roughly 13 thousand feet in 60 seconds, or 220 feet per second. Add a half second reaction time, and your moving/reacting at about a football field every second. This doesn't work well when you are flying in dense fog/clouds.
I agree. I'm not investigating the crash and this is all items I found searching the web, but it looks like the pilot made a mistake and thought he could handle the weather. And instead of turning around he went into a fog blind.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:34 PM   #52
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I don't drive my car at 80 mph in a dense fog..that's suicidal.

Here's a quick story. I was the Commander of a base weather station in England. We had the A-10's, in fact we were the first base outside of the US to house them. They were daytime VFR, and field minimums for the highest rated pilots were 700 foot ceilings and visibility 1 mile or greater.

So...I see a fog bank coming in from the east, where the North Sea was just a few miles away. I notify the control tower that visibility will rapidly decrease. There were 30 planes on the way home from the gunnery range up in the Norwich area..about an hours' flight time.

As the trainee pilots landed, I dropped the official weather observation down to the next category...from 3 miles, then to 2 miles. The next set of pilots landed, rated to land at 2 miles or greater. Did I have 2 miles visibility at the time? Ummm...no. I couldn't see the tree line, 1.7 miles away. We used fixed points around the base, at a known distance, to help us determine prevailing visibility.

To end a long story, it was flat out foggy when the last pilot landed, the Wing Commander. He stopped by the weather station a little while later, and asked if I was the one doing the weather observations. I said I was..and he said thanks, and then told me "don't ever do this again."
I'm so glad your story ended with you being told not to do something, instead of what could have happened.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:50 PM   #53
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He should have gone vertical. But he was limited to at or below 2500 because of the traffic. So for him to go vertical, he would have admitted he couldn't see, then caused a delay as the scramble the airport traffic out of his way and then he has to answer a lot of questions. It's his hubris that caused this.

I know I'm blaming the pilot and it could have been a malfunction, but by the witness accounts, air traffic radio and the fact he flew 180 MPH into the side of a hill, if it isn't the pilot's fault, I'd be surprised.

This witness in particular.
That's what I think as well.
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Old 01-28-2020, 05:53 PM   #54
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He was Byrants personal pilot and Kobe would never fly with anyone else. We should let the NTSB finish it’s investigation before we decide who is at fault. It will probably be a combination of things.
That in no way discredits anything I've said. So what?

This pilot is very experienced and has probably frown in similar situations on numerous occasions. I just think he is a paid by flight pilot with a lot of confidence. No union guy or airline pilot that is getting paid anyway would take that chance.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:22 PM   #55
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Next time anyone acts like these athletes are just machines...watch Shaq break down talking about losing Kobe

https://twitter.com/jordanpball/stat...15485858951168

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Old 01-29-2020, 10:41 AM   #56
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This is well put together and provides some good insight on the crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T12bSCpujtc
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:13 PM   #57
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This is difficult to believe in two respects:
Name:  Image0292.jpg
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1) A pilot with thousands of hours of flying experience, including at least 1,250 hours in this particular helicopter, and he doesn't know to gain altitude, abort, whatever needed to be done, to avoid flying into a hillside.

2) More money than one knows what to do with, but they don't bother to invest in a warning system that would have saved lives. In 2020, technology is available but we don't invest in it - to save money?

But come to think of it, that has to be pinned on the chopper service, not Bryant. All that he probably knew about flying a helicopter was how to get in and out of it.

Oh, that helicopter company has some 'splainin' to do.
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Old 01-29-2020, 12:18 PM   #58
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This is difficult to believe in two respects:
Attachment 670731

1) A pilot with thousands of hours of flying experience, including at least 1,250 hours in this particular helicopter, and he doesn't know to gain altitude, abort, whatever needed to be done, to avoid flying into a hillside.

2) More money than one knows what to do with, but they don't bother to invest in a warning system that would have saved lives. In 2020, technology is available but we don't invest in it - to save money?

But come to think of it, that has to be pinned on the chopper service, not Bryant. All that he probably knew about flying a helicopter was how to get in and out of it.

Oh, that helicopter company has some 'splainin' to do.
If you think that's bad, you should look up the delays the railroad lobby has put up to prevent paying & implementing safety features.
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Old 01-29-2020, 04:02 PM   #59
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Watched a video this morning of Stephen Colbert, and he was advocating that black box or flight recording need to be added to helicopters. For some reason, helicopters do not have black boxes like planes do. Not sure of the logistics or reasoning for that.

Hope to talk to a friend about this and TAWS in coming months when he gets back to the States, he is a helicopter mechanic.
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Old 01-29-2020, 04:13 PM   #60
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Watched a video this morning of Stephen Colbert, and he was advocating that black box or flight recording need to be added to helicopters. For some reason, helicopters do not have black boxes like planes do. Not sure of the logistics or reasoning for that.

Hope to talk to a friend about this and TAWS in coming months when he gets back to the States, he is a helicopter mechanic.

Not all airplanes have them either. Only ones over a certain take off weight have them. This usually means corporate planes, all commercial planes and planes that carry cargo.
Most privately owned small planes do not have them.

I have two aircraft that I lease with others and neither one has one installed. They do have emergency automated SOS that will transmit if the pilot turns it on or if the plane descends too quickly.
But nothing to record the flight control inputs in the event of a crash.
But both aircraft are used for civilian flying and cannot be used for commercial flying and both has a MTOW that must be strictly adhered too.
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