This is unacceptable....

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by pappyzan

Nothing's gonna change, everybody knows that right?

We can only try...

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

We can only try...

No, there's actually another option...

[BriDav00]

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

The problem I see with this... is that now we have a perfectly acceptable path to tanking.... While you may be doing it for the right reasons, you bet others will use it as an excuse.... and it's clearly well documented that "tanking" is cheating... so how do we separate these things??

"Tanking" is only cheating when you tank vs some teams and not others. Personally I don't think this is any more cheating than someone spending 5 grand and buying every historical 100 card.

[dkgo]

nothing will change this season but it absolutely could in future versions so the discussion seems worth having

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by BriDav00

"Tanking" is only cheating when you tank vs some teams and not others. Personally I don't think this is any more cheating than someone spending 5 grand and buying every historical 100 card.

You need to read the ToS. Both of these statements are false.

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Because if they did so the whales would have to earn their ride to the top with skill, not deeper pockets. Their deeper pockets would help, but would not truly manifest itself until the higher levels. Deeper pockets would still help get rarer iron, bronze, silver cards, but not by a large enough margin where it's an automatic victory. As it stands right now, you spend money, you beat players who don't for at least 4 levels, holding f2p players down for longer.


I for one like the idea.

The developers would not make a change that discourages players from giving them money right away. The current setup is as close to optimal as you can get for maximizing revenue, I think, so there won't be radical changes to the system that discourage whales from dumping loads of cash upfront. It's a business first and foremost, and cash is king.

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by BriDav00

"Tanking" is only cheating when you tank vs some teams and not others. Personally I don't think this is any more cheating than someone spending 5 grand and buying every historical 100 card.

You don't know what you're talking about....

[pappyzan]

Originally Posted by X3NEIZE

We can only try...

True, fair enough

[CurlyKarkovice]

This ridiculous thread popping up at the top of the forum list is "unacceptable" .....

Oh crap I just contributed to it Lol

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by curlykarkovice

this ridiculous thread popping up at the top of the forum list is "unacceptable" .....

Oh crap i just contributed to it lol

haha!

[pappyzan]

Originally Posted by atabakin

The developers would not make a change that discourages players from giving them money right away.

so there won't be radical changes to the system that discourage whales from dumping loads of cash upfront. It's a business first and foremost, and cash is king.

Yep, can't hate on the whales too much; somebody's gotta open packs to sell off those good cards.

[HRBaker]

OK.

How about this.

Find a measurement of "card quality" for each team. Maybe it's the OVR total (Active List), maybe something else. Update that number overnight.

This will establish the "weakest" team rating for each league (as well as the strongest team - more on that later).

Add a bit of code which does not allow any team on any specific day to field an "Active List" rating below the weakest team in the league. If you make a roster change that does that, a message comes up telling you that would make your team weaker than the weakest team in the league and wouldn't allow it.

With a system similar to this, "tanking" would be limited. The worst you could do is position yourself as the worst in your league and possibly earn a demotion - but you could only do one level per season. A Perfect team would need 5 weeks to place themselves in Iron.

The reverse would also be true for those worried a team would then go back to all Perfect Players and beat everyone up in the process...

Since we would also know the "best" team in the league, a team wouldn't be allowed to field an Active List that would surpass the rating of that best team (also recalculated daily). This would limit the "speed" at which any team could climb the ranks as well.

[Goliathus]

Originally Posted by dkgo

I am at a complete loss as to how you reached that interpretation of the post

I think that instead of promotion and relegation every week teams should be assigned into an appropriate tier based on the composition of their roster. Exactly how is TBD.

During that week there are some general limits to keep the competitive balance intact (nothing that would restrict anyone playing the game in a fair way but would prevent abuse).

The difference between p2w and f2p is still the same as it is now. All the teams are mixed together but it will take a f2p team longer to be competitive at the top.

Issues this solves:

Tanking from the high levels

Sandbagging low levels to rack up easy PP

Legitimate low level players getting discouraged by whales in their bronze division

A new whale having to wait five seasons to get to a competitive level

This sounds good on paper but it will get abused unless the reserved roster is also checked. But if reserved roster is also checked, there comes another abusable scenario.

If reserved is not checked, I can put all 40+ rating on the main roster, get into a bronze tier league, changes it back to my all 100 lineup.

If reserved is also checked, I can put all my 100 lineup on the main, then shove all the 40 I have into my reserve roster alongside 4-5 true reserve. This will pull down my average AVG RTG and hopefully puts me into a league that can't handle all 100.

I guess it's doable if we cut down the reserved to say, 10.

Another concern is any formula can be abused if someone tries hard enough. For a simple example, let's say the formula looks at the AVG RTG of a team. Well, not every card of every rating is equal. Hardcore players are going to find the best team at AVG RTG 60.0 and dominates the other 29 who just happened to be at that average without strong planning.

From a business standpoint, the idea doesn't make sense because it stops the whale from investing money. What drives whales to spend money is the feel of winning. In the current setup, you can see that your team needs improvement to win, so you buy PP and improve your team. Then you go to a higher tier, and you realize to continue to win, you need to spend even more money and you are willing to. So you do that and go up again. That's how F2P games incentivize their users to spend money. In your setup, they might as well don't spend, cuz they are getting the same chance of winning with a garbage team or a good team. They don't feel the progress, they don't see how paying would improve their chance and the whales will not whale on the game anymore.

[bailey]

I like it the way it is.

[GlassGuyBob]

I think promotion/relegation works fine. However I would like some difference in the points earned at each level, even if it's minor, just to discourage tanking down to a lower level.

[Argonaut]

Originally Posted by GlassGuyBob

I think promotion/relegation works fine. However I would like some difference in the points earned at each level, even if it's minor, just to discourage tanking down to a lower level.

This is what I've been saying. The way to fix the PT competitive problems is to incentivize winning rather than punish losing with excessive, complex, and vague rules and regulations. Incentivize the winning, and let promotion and relegation figure out the rest.

Aside from the varied points per levels, the best idea I saw was to have an all-time manager score on your account that took into account winning records and level played at.

That being said, I think that all the hubbub about tanking and everything is overblown, it's not that big of a problem in PT. PT is fun and a great addition to OOTP. Most of the priority improvements on my list would relate to improving the functionality of the system, especially the auction house. You can't even sort pitchers by movement right now.

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by dkgo

I am at a complete loss as to how you reached that interpretation of the post

Spending more to get to the top of the pyramid faster? Isn't that the standard definition of pay to win? I really didn't think I had to spell that one out.

+++

I am against any system that introduces tedious bureaucracy, artificial level restrictions, especially if based on the ridiculously flawed overall rating, or anything that makes rosters invalid overnight, just because the odd butthurt wannabe whale whines about having been taken down in the LDS or the odd, though more frequent, butthurt free player can't win their division this week for one of those wannabe whales moving through their bronze league.

For the umpteenth time - you can't all have a .600 win percentage at the same time.

Maybe a useful change would be to have that message flash up whenever somebody launches PT...

And if you can only have joy with PT if you *are* roflstomping the competition either with your wallet or your genius, at all times, then maybe PT is not for you. Other people have wallets and brains, too. Maybe look at standard OOTP and how some people play their teams in the dynasty section for ideas.

[dkgo]

you are either trolling or so far away from understanding what anyone here is saying that it is pointless to continue

[X3NEIZE]

Originally Posted by dkgo

you are either trolling or so far away from understanding what anyone here is saying that it is pointless to continue

I was gonna say.... I was sitting here scratching my head...

[Westheim]

Fine. Play dumb. Be like that.