Real Lineups?

David Watts · 04-01-2016, 09:15 AM

I know real transactions are available for use starting in 1901. Anyone know the earliest year real lineups are available?

Second question about using real lineups. Say the Tigers don't start Ty Cobb on a particular day/s. In real life, Cobb not starting may be due to injury, illness, fatigue etc and he very well may not have been able to play at all. Using OOTP, I know he will still be available for use by the AI and may enter the game as a pinch hitter or defensive replacement at some point in the game. My question is, does the OOTP AI use Cobb as a late game replacement, or does it look for every opportunity to put him in the lineup as early as possible?

Third question. Do you use the fatigue feature when using real lineups? Not sure how OOTP would deal with a Ripken Jr. or a Lou Gehrig. Would the fact that they played in every game in real life run them into the ground using OOTP fatigue?

MightyVotto · 04-01-2016, 03:44 PM

I think the lineups don't really start being reliable until 1913 or 14. I'm guessing. It used to be 1920 on, but I think they made it earlier a few versions ago.

I'm simming from 1901 on right now with transactions and lineups on. The real lineups don't seem to be actually working as of 1908. When you do start seeing real lineups, the AI will not put a player who didn't start in until the 7th inning of a game. It's a little annoying with this type of gameplay. You're playing a game, and you think that Jimmie Foxx is out due to injury but the system inserts him in once you get to the 7th inning. So, nobody is truly ever injured.

I use the fatigue factor set on low. It only impacts catchers occasionally, though. Like maybe once or twice a year. They had days off regularly if you use the real schedules. You only run into long blocks of consecutive games played a couple times a year. I only do it if I'm seeing what happens if you play someone everyday such as Ruth or Dimaggio. They both missed a good bit of time in their careers.

Gherig is always an Iron Man. So, you can't run him into the ground.

I was hoping they could get real transactions to work with real minors to add some variety to the historical replay style of gameplay, but it doesn't quite work that way, yet.

swampdragon · 04-01-2016, 04:02 PM

I've done most of 1901 with the lineups, and every time I checked, they were accurate. The game doesn't allow the option prior to 1901.

pstrickert · 04-01-2016, 04:10 PM

The only lineups missing since 1901 are: 1908, 1909, 1910, 1912, and 1913. "M's rule" gets the credit for compiling the lineups for these early years.

pstrickert · 04-01-2016, 04:12 PM

Fatigue is off for position players, IIRC.

pstrickert · 04-01-2016, 04:23 PM

I've experimented with using real lineups and transactions AND roster limits. The AI will "call up" the right players from the reserve roster if they are scheduled to appear in the starting lineup. (The same players may be relegated to the reserve roster because they were marginal players who rarely made a start. But they do appear in the lineup when they're supposed to.)

Two problems, however: First, the box scores show the wrong total AB, H, R, and RBI totals for these "reserve" players. It shows their season totals to date. So, late in the season, the box score will show the player with, for example, 35 AB, 5 R, 7H, and 6 RBI in a single game. Each AB he gets, he'll set a season record for most ABs in a game. That's one problem. The other is that the AI does not move relief pitchers back and forth from the reserve roster. So, any pitcher on the reserve roster is stuck there for the entire year.

I made this information available to Markus, asking if he could address these issues. He said it'd require a lot of work on his part.

MightyVotto · 04-01-2016, 04:44 PM

There may be issues then with some of the other years. In 1906, Cobb only started 98 games. In my replay sim with real lineups turned on, he started 148 games. I'm guessing that getting this info as accurate as possible for this era is quite a chore.

pstrickert · 04-01-2016, 05:11 PM

You're right about 1906. I filed a bug report. Have you noticed any other discrepancies in these early seasons?

MightyVotto · 04-01-2016, 07:13 PM

No other discrepancies so far. 1901 - 1905 seem to be applying real lineups correctly from what I can see. Thanks!

04-01-2016, 09:15 AM	#1
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 8,848	Real Lineups? I know real transactions are available for use starting in 1901. Anyone know the earliest year real lineups are available? Second question about using real lineups. Say the Tigers don't start Ty Cobb on a particular day/s. In real life, Cobb not starting may be due to injury, illness, fatigue etc and he very well may not have been able to play at all. Using OOTP, I know he will still be available for use by the AI and may enter the game as a pinch hitter or defensive replacement at some point in the game. My question is, does the OOTP AI use Cobb as a late game replacement, or does it look for every opportunity to put him in the lineup as early as possible? Third question. Do you use the fatigue feature when using real lineups? Not sure how OOTP would deal with a Ripken Jr. or a Lou Gehrig. Would the fact that they played in every game in real life run them into the ground using OOTP fatigue? Last edited by David Watts; 04-01-2016 at 10:12 AM.

04-01-2016, 04:02 PM	#3
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	I've done most of 1901 with the lineups, and every time I checked, they were accurate. The game doesn't allow the option prior to 1901. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis Last edited by swampdragon; 04-01-2016 at 04:06 PM.

04-01-2016, 03:44 PM	#2
MightyVotto Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 122	I think the lineups don't really start being reliable until 1913 or 14. I'm guessing. It used to be 1920 on, but I think they made it earlier a few versions ago. I'm simming from 1901 on right now with transactions and lineups on. The real lineups don't seem to be actually working as of 1908. When you do start seeing real lineups, the AI will not put a player who didn't start in until the 7th inning of a game. It's a little annoying with this type of gameplay. You're playing a game, and you think that Jimmie Foxx is out due to injury but the system inserts him in once you get to the 7th inning. So, nobody is truly ever injured. I use the fatigue factor set on low. It only impacts catchers occasionally, though. Like maybe once or twice a year. They had days off regularly if you use the real schedules. You only run into long blocks of consecutive games played a couple times a year. I only do it if I'm seeing what happens if you play someone everyday such as Ruth or Dimaggio. They both missed a good bit of time in their careers. Gherig is always an Iron Man. So, you can't run him into the ground. I was hoping they could get real transactions to work with real minors to add some variety to the historical replay style of gameplay, but it doesn't quite work that way, yet.

04-01-2016, 04:10 PM	#4
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,726	The only lineups missing since 1901 are: 1908, 1909, 1910, 1912, and 1913. "M's rule" gets the credit for compiling the lineups for these early years.

04-01-2016, 04:12 PM	#5
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,726	Fatigue is off for position players, IIRC.

04-01-2016, 04:23 PM	#6
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,726	I've experimented with using real lineups and transactions AND roster limits. The AI will "call up" the right players from the reserve roster if they are scheduled to appear in the starting lineup. (The same players may be relegated to the reserve roster because they were marginal players who rarely made a start. But they do appear in the lineup when they're supposed to.) Two problems, however: First, the box scores show the wrong total AB, H, R, and RBI totals for these "reserve" players. It shows their season totals to date. So, late in the season, the box score will show the player with, for example, 35 AB, 5 R, 7H, and 6 RBI in a single game. Each AB he gets, he'll set a season record for most ABs in a game. That's one problem. The other is that the AI does not move relief pitchers back and forth from the reserve roster. So, any pitcher on the reserve roster is stuck there for the entire year. I made this information available to Markus, asking if he could address these issues. He said it'd require a lot of work on his part.

04-01-2016, 04:44 PM	#7
MightyVotto Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 122	There may be issues then with some of the other years. In 1906, Cobb only started 98 games. In my replay sim with real lineups turned on, he started 148 games. I'm guessing that getting this info as accurate as possible for this era is quite a chore.

04-01-2016, 05:11 PM	#8
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,726	You're right about 1906. I filed a bug report. Have you noticed any other discrepancies in these early seasons?

04-01-2016, 07:13 PM	#9
MightyVotto Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 122	No other discrepancies so far. 1901 - 1905 seem to be applying real lineups correctly from what I can see. Thanks!