No longer able to use a certain year as base year in Random Debut.

[Tiger Fan]

If I was guessing on the cause of the issue in your case I would think it has something to do with the fact that you have to manually reset the league to 1984 stats modifiers each year.

To me, that is what appears broken from earlier versions of the game. I am sure in older versions if you unchecked both AUTOMATICALLY ADJUST LEAGUE STRATEGY WHEN ADVANCING TO NEXT SEASON on both of these league setting screens the game would always stay with settings for the year you selected (in your case 1984).

In OOTP18 when you uncheck both boxes the game still advances the settings each year. I am wondering if you resetting the numbers each year is what is creating some of the extreme results?

[pstrickert]

David Watts should be a beta tester.

[mitchkenn]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

David Watts should be a beta tester.

what he said!!!

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

David Watts should be a beta tester.

My internet is so stinking bad they would have delay the release of the game just for me to download the files more than once.

[pstrickert]

Maybe someone should create a new thread for suggestions to improve historical replays. Even small enhancements would be encouraging to see.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Maybe someone should create a new thread for suggestions to improve historical replays. Even small enhancements would be encouraging to see.

Great idea.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

David Watts should be a beta tester.

He isn't a tester by his own choice, I've asked him before

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Regarding your mode of play, I think what you do confuses the game. What is it that you are trying to accomplish? I am sure there is a better way to do it.

Personally, it's my favourite way to play random debut, and it works much better on OOTP16 because for some reason there aren't as many outlier seasons as there are on the two versions since OOTP16. The reason I use it is I'm not really a big fan of the deadball era, but I'm no fan of the bazookaball that took place in the 1930's and the PED explosion of the 1990s and early 2000s. Setting it to 1984 every year smooths all of that out and is yet another way to put players on a level playing field. I set strategy settings to 1984, LTMs to 1984, PCMs to 1984 (although now that you've told us that this has no effect on historical players in the database, I probably won't bother with this), and allow everything else to advance as it did historically. Like I said, it works great with OOTP16, not so much with OOTP17 or OOTP18.

Sticking with 1984 as a base year for your stats output creates a situation where a 30 HR season really means something (unlike what happened in the heightened offensive eras), but it is not utterly impossible for a player to achieve (as it is in the deadball era). For me, it's a happy medium between the two extremes, which used to work perfectly, but now sadly does not.

I also like to play with Neutralized Stats, and since those have gone the way of the dodo since OOTP17 came out (although they were only recently removed altogether from the players' real life stats), I choose to stick with OOTP16 for long-term historical random debut dynasties that I invest time and effort into. My way of playing may be an extremely niche way to play, but you gave me the tools to do it, and now those tools aren't working as well as they once did, and I'm trying to figure out what changed between OOTP16 and now that made that happen.

[David Watts]

I'm simply worn out. I've tried so many different things tonight and no matter what I try, I end up with way too many extreme seasons. Even just letting the game run year to year is producing way too many wild individual seasons. Even when the league totals are dead on, I get strange seasons.

For example, Andre Ethier hitting .365 and .372 at the age of 23 and 24. .424 and .421 OBP. 1.037 and 1.057 OPS.

What about a cat named Rube Ellis hitting .333 in 1985 and .353 in 86. .260 career average over 4 real seasons from 1909-1912.

This particular league is using the actual 1984 setup. 26 total teams. I have played 3 season, 84, 85 and 86. So far one player Rogers Hornsby has hit 400 (.405) and an amazing 99 more players have hit .314 and higher. 24 players have hit .between .350 and .399. 11 more have hit in the .340's. 27 players have hit in the .330's. Like I said the list cuts off at 100 and that just happens to be .314. Wonder how many more player have hit between .300 and .314.

29 players have finished with an OPS over 1

82 hitters have finished with an OBP above 4

56 players have had 200+ hit seasons. The high is 254. There was also a 251 hit season in there . 2 more have hit 240+. 5 230+ 13 220+

Again this isn't trying to pull things back to a specific year. This is flowing from 84-86 with "import historical modifiers for accuracy checked.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by Tiger Fan

If I was guessing on the cause of the issue in your case I would think it has something to do with the fact that you have to manually reset the league to 1984 stats modifiers each year.

To me, that is what appears broken from earlier versions of the game. I am sure in older versions if you unchecked both AUTOMATICALLY ADJUST LEAGUE STRATEGY WHEN ADVANCING TO NEXT SEASON on both of these league setting screens the game would always stay with settings for the year you selected (in your case 1984).

In OOTP18 when you uncheck both boxes the game still advances the settings each year. I am wondering if you resetting the numbers each year is what is creating some of the extreme results?

The thing is, it's necessary to reset the league to 1984 stats modifiers each year to prevent statistical drift from setting in. It was necessary in OOTP16 and it's necessary now. It works very well in OOTP16. League-wide totals work very well both in OOTP16 and OOTP18. What is off is the distribution of those league totals in OOTP18.

[David Watts]

Okay almost time to go to bed, but I decided to run the exact same setup with OOTP16. Again, I simmed random debut, 84-86.

The seasonal leaderboard for batting average starts with the high of .372 and descends down to number 100 at .299. 3 players have hit .370+, 3 hit .360+, 2 .350+ 7 340+, 13 .330+ 18 .320+ 15 .310+ and 25 .300+

42 total seasons of .400+ OBP with .453 being the high.

12 total seasons of 1+ OPS

26 200 hit seasons. High hits for a season is 254, the list then drops down to 229. 7 players have had 220+ hits. 7 have had 210+ and 13 have hit 200+

On the pitching side, 2 pitchers have finished with an ERA below 2 using 16. There were 6 using 18. The low with 16 is 1.60 compared to a low of 1.35 with OOTP18.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I'm simply worn out. I've tried so many different things tonight and no matter what I try, I end up with way too many extreme seasons. Even just letting the game run year to year is producing way too many wild individual seasons. Even when the league totals are dead on, I get strange seasons.

For example, Andre Ethier hitting .365 and .372 at the age of 23 and 24. .424 and .421 OBP. 1.037 and 1.057 OPS.

What about a cat named Rube Ellis hitting .333 in 1985 and .353 in 86. .260 career average over 4 real seasons from 1909-1912.

This particular league is using the actual 1984 setup. 26 total teams. I have played 3 season, 84, 85 and 86. So far one player Rogers Hornsby has hit 400 (.405) and an amazing 99 more players have hit .314 and higher. 24 players have hit .between .350 and .399. 11 more have hit in the .340's. 27 players have hit in the .330's. Like I said the list cuts off at 100 and that just happens to be .314. Wonder how many more player have hit between .300 and .314.

29 players have finished with an OPS over 1

82 hitters have finished with an OBP above 4

56 players have had 200+ hit seasons. The high is 254. There was also a 251 hit season in there . 2 more have hit 240+. 5 230+ 13 220+

Again this isn't trying to pull things back to a specific year. This is flowing from 84-86 with "import historical modifiers for accuracy checked.

Just for comparison's sake, here is the complete list of all players in MLB between 1984 and 1986 who a) qualified for the batting title, and b) hit .314 or higher:

1984:

Tony Gwynn .351
Don Mattingly .343
Dave Winfield .340
Wade Boggs .325
Lee Lacy .321
Buddy Bell .315
Chili Davis .315
Ryne Sandberg .314
Alan Trammell .314

1985:

Wade Boggs .368
Willie McGee .353
George Brett .335
Don Mattingly .324
Pedro Guerrero .320
Tim Raines .320
Tony Gwynn .317
Rickey Henderson .314

1986:

Wade Boggs .357
Don Mattingly .352
Tim Raines .334
Steve Sax .332
Tony Gwynn .329
Kirby Puckett .328
Pat Tabler .326
Jim Rice .324

That's 25 players in all. That's it. 25. Not 100ish. 25. That's not luck. That's the distribution of the league-wide stats being off somewhere. If it were 40 or so, no problem, but 100? C'mon.

[David Watts]

Tomorrow if I have the time, I will run the same 3 years using 16, but I will pull things back to 84 each season.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Just for comparison's sake, here is the complete list of all players in MLB between 1984 and 1986 who a) qualified for the batting title, and b) hit .314 or higher:

1984:

Tony Gwynn .351
Don Mattingly .343
Dave Winfield .340
Wade Boggs .325
Lee Lacy .321
Buddy Bell .315
Chili Davis .315
Ryne Sandberg .314
Alan Trammell .314

1985:

Wade Boggs .368
Willie McGee .353
George Brett .335
Don Mattingly .324
Pedro Guerrero .320
Tim Raines .320
Tony Gwynn .317
Rickey Henderson .314

1986:

Wade Boggs .357
Don Mattingly .352
Tim Raines .334
Steve Sax .332
Tony Gwynn .329
Kirby Puckett .328
Pat Tabler .326
Jim Rice .324

That's 25 players in all. That's it. 25. Not 100ish. 25. That's not luck. That's the distribution of the league-wide stats being off somewhere. If it were 40 or so, no problem, but 100? C'mon.

The above league had 25 players hit .350 and above.

[David Watts]

Lets compare the above to my actual random debut league that is currently a little more than halfway through the 18th season. This league began in 1947 and it's currently July 30th 1964. By the way, Barry Bonds and I were born 6 days ago. This league is importing historical modifiers according to history and will do so till the early 80's. I will then uncheck the box and either use a series of years or one particular year from then on.

Average leaders from 1-100. High of .370 Low of .314. So like the 18 list, the cutoff is at .314, but with 18 were talking 3 seasons compared to the 17 here.

85 seasons of 400+ OBP, with .492 being the highest. 82 using 18 over just 3 seasons.

23 players have finished with an OPS of 1+ that's less than the 29 players that have done so using 18.

16 players have finished with 200+ hits.

5 pitchers have completed a season with an ERA below 2, compared to 6 over 3 seasons with 18.

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Lets compare the above to my actual random debut league that is currently a little more than halfway through the 18th season. This league began in 1947 and it's currently July 30th 1964. By the way, Barry Bonds and I were born 6 days ago. This league is importing historical modifiers according to history and will do so till the early 80's. I will then uncheck the box and either use a series of years or one particular year from then on.

Average leaders from 1-100. High of .370 Low of .314. So like the 18 list, the cutoff is at .314, but with 18 were talking 3 seasons compared to the 17 here.

85 seasons of 400+ OBP, with .492 being the highest. 82 using 18 over just 3 seasons.

23 players have finished with an OPS of 1+ that's less than the 29 players that have done so using 18.

16 players have finished with 200+ hits.

5 pitchers have completed a season with an ERA below 2, compared to 6 over 3 seasons with 18.

Just to clarify, these numbers that you're now giving us happened using OOTP16 right?

[actionjackson]

Originally Posted by David Watts

The above league had 25 players hit .350 and above.

My 61+ year OOTP16 dynasty has 38 players that have hit .350 or better, including Fred Nicholson's .3499. Your league ran 3 years right?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Just to clarify, these numbers that you're now giving us happened using OOTP16 right?

Yes, using 16 and letting the game import modifier according to history year by year.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by actionjackson

My 61+ year OOTP16 dynasty has 38 players that have hit .350 or better, including Fred Nicholson's .3499. Your league ran 3 years right?

Yes, 3 whole years.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, we discussed that in length already, and there is nothing we can do here, except for revisiting the fielding ratings in the DB, although they do look better right now IMO. The game will never be able to replicate the success / failure of teams vastly over/underperforming in real life, which was the core issue you complained about IIRC.

Sorry to hijack this thread. But let me add a quick note. I checked the real life BABIP for the Oakland pitching staff from 1970-75. Each year, they were number one or number two league-wide in lowest BABIP. So, did the A’s just get lucky six years in a row? The Oakland dynasty of the early ‘70s was nothing but luck?