Roberto Clemente...

steady teddy · 07-05-2017, 03:32 PM

I started a Historical game in 1971. Not trying to be morbid but I assume it's by design that the database doesn't recognize Clemente's death and special induction into the HOF in 1973? I've simmed to January 1974 and see nothing mentioned.

Pirates · 07-05-2017, 09:18 PM

To add on to your question:
Roberto Clemente has the most outfield(RF) assists in the history of baseball.
Every year that he plays in my game,there are numerous RF's listed with a stronger arm, how is this possible?
Someone should Youtube some of his throws from RF to see the cannon like arm he had.

swampdragon · 07-05-2017, 11:26 PM

The game doesn't know names unless you use recalc.

BaseballMan · 07-06-2017, 08:32 PM

I think the game does mention some deaths but it think it may be fictional owners. I believe a historical player's death is in the database so it might add a touch of realism to have the famous deaths in the news and a memorial day or have a fictional death date. Careers end and we have the hall of fame so why not have a Roberto Clemente memorial type day?

sprague · 07-07-2017, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirates

To add on to your question:
Roberto Clemente has the most outfield(RF) assists in the history of baseball.
Every year that he plays in my game,there are numerous RF's listed with a stronger arm, how is this possible?
Someone should Youtube some of his throws from RF to see the cannon like arm he had.

Because the game uses mostly stats for fielding there will be scqews, a low arm fielder in real life might get lots of assists because so many try to run on him. i am ok with this, and just manually adjust a few players every year to reflect. one I almost always have to adjust is brooks robinson...never see him get the ratings he likely should get

Pirates · 07-07-2017, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprague

Because the game uses mostly stats for fielding there will be scqews, a low arm fielder in real life might get lots of assists because so many try to run on him. i am ok with this, and just manually adjust a few players every year to reflect. one I almost always have to adjust is brooks robinson...never see him get the ratings he likely should get

Agreed. Brooks Robinson's nickname was "The Human Vacuum Cleaner".
Some players that were unbelievable good defensively, never show up in the game this way.

I like to play in challenge mode, (not for the Leaderboard), just to see how I do. Because you can't edit players, this is a major problem for me.

BoomsdayDevice · 08-01-2017, 12:13 PM

This is weird. Clemente has to be the best RF ever defensively. I can't even make a good argument for someone else. Ichiro and Dawson were excellent but nowhere near as good as RC.

Leo_The_Lip · 08-02-2017, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirates

To add on to your question:
Roberto Clemente has the most outfield(RF) assists in the history of baseball.
.

Except it is more likely to have been Harry Hooper.

I'll let you look up why.

Pirates · 08-05-2017, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip

Except it is more likely to have been Harry Hooper.

I'll let you look up why.

Looked it up.

1. Roberto Clemente+ (18) 254 R
2. Harry Hooper+ (17) 250 R
3. Mel Ott+ (22) 239 R
4. Paul Waner+ (20) 238 L

I'll let you look that up.

Nice try, though.

RchW · 08-05-2017, 01:34 AM

Why did they keep running on him if he was that good?

swampdragon · 08-05-2017, 10:29 AM

It probably was Harry Hooper. Look at his career line on BB-Ref. He 's only four RF assists short of Clemente with four seasons unaccounted for. When they catch up with the Retrosheet stats, Hooper will be ahead.

Then there's Tris Speaker's 448 outfield assists.

Pirates · 08-06-2017, 08:59 AM

The immortal Vin Scully put it best: "Clemente could field the ball in New York, and throw out a guy in Pennsylvania."
Players in the National League knew that Clemente could throw anyone out from anywhere in the ballpark, yet 266 of them feebly tried to advance on his powerful right arm, also known as "El Howitzer."

The point I was trying to make was, how come Clemente never has or gets the maximum arm rating?

Jerry Helper · 08-07-2017, 04:17 PM

It seems like the game hardly ever recognizes stuff like that. If you play before someone dies/retires early, rarely will the game retire them when that season comes. I'm running a 1960's historical sim as the California Angels GM. It's 1967 and Sandy Koufax is still kicking ass.

Jerry Helper · 08-10-2017, 01:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UUy65ZpSP0

In this spirit of this thread, I give you this video. Just so we can take a moment and appreciate what a beast he was.

Painmantle · 08-10-2017, 08:54 PM

Unless you turn on recalc, use historical transactions, miss seasons according to history ect.... all the things mention in this thread with regard to historical accuracy never happens because you are likely using the OOTP development engine. Which means players are brought in with potentials and they develop independently from their h9istorical counterparts, some players will be better than they were, some will be worse and some will be pretty close to what they actually were. But once you turn the player over to the OOTP Development engine, all bets are off!

Brad K · 10-18-2017, 05:30 PM

In my current game on a 100 scale Clemente still had an arm rating of 69 at age 43. He couldn't do anything else though, except hit singles at about a 260 rate.

Up until 71 or 72 arm rating was 100.

I consider all this reasonable.

BaseballMan · 10-25-2017, 08:44 AM

Clemente's story might make a good baseball movie.

steady teddy · 10-25-2017, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Clemente's story might make a good baseball movie.

I agree. His memory is deserving of a proper Bio. Chasing 3000 sucked.

HFBL · 11-17-2017, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Helper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UUy65ZpSP0

In this spirit of this thread, I give you this video. Just so we can take a moment and appreciate what a beast he was.

He fielded the ball, turned and fired from the warning track on a rope to home plate! It's not like he had time to get momentum towards home either! Very impressive indeed!!!

Brad K · 11-22-2017, 09:30 PM

OF assists are not a direct measure of throwing ability. They are a measure of how often base runners underestimated throwing ability.

07-05-2017, 03:32 PM	#1
steady teddy Major Leagues Join Date: May 2003 Location: Macomb, Michigan Posts: 407	Roberto Clemente... I started a Historical game in 1971. Not trying to be morbid but I assume it's by design that the database doesn't recognize Clemente's death and special induction into the HOF in 1973? I've simmed to January 1974 and see nothing mentioned.

07-05-2017, 11:26 PM	#3
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	The game doesn't know names unless you use recalc. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

08-01-2017, 12:13 PM	#7
BoomsdayDevice Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 33	This is weird. Clemente has to be the best RF ever defensively. I can't even make a good argument for someone else. Ichiro and Dawson were excellent but nowhere near as good as RC. __________________ “[Baseball] breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall all alone." ~ A. Bartlett Giamatti

08-05-2017, 01:34 AM	#10
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	Why did they keep running on him if he was that good? __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

08-05-2017, 10:29 AM	#11
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	It probably was Harry Hooper. Look at his career line on BB-Ref. He 's only four RF assists short of Clemente with four seasons unaccounted for. When they catch up with the Retrosheet stats, Hooper will be ahead. Then there's Tris Speaker's 448 outfield assists. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

07-05-2017, 09:18 PM	#2
Pirates Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 371	To add on to your question: Roberto Clemente has the most outfield(RF) assists in the history of baseball. Every year that he plays in my game,there are numerous RF's listed with a stronger arm, how is this possible? Someone should Youtube some of his throws from RF to see the cannon like arm he had.

07-06-2017, 08:32 PM	#4
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,266	I think the game does mention some deaths but it think it may be fictional owners. I believe a historical player's death is in the database so it might add a touch of realism to have the famous deaths in the news and a memorial day or have a fictional death date. Careers end and we have the hall of fame so why not have a Roberto Clemente memorial type day?

08-06-2017, 08:59 AM	#12
Pirates Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 371	The immortal Vin Scully put it best: "Clemente could field the ball in New York, and throw out a guy in Pennsylvania." Players in the National League knew that Clemente could throw anyone out from anywhere in the ballpark, yet 266 of them feebly tried to advance on his powerful right arm, also known as "El Howitzer." The point I was trying to make was, how come Clemente never has or gets the maximum arm rating?

08-07-2017, 04:17 PM	#13
Jerry Helper Major Leagues Join Date: May 2017 Location: Dallas Posts: 325	It seems like the game hardly ever recognizes stuff like that. If you play before someone dies/retires early, rarely will the game retire them when that season comes. I'm running a 1960's historical sim as the California Angels GM. It's 1967 and Sandy Koufax is still kicking ass. Last edited by Jerry Helper; 08-07-2017 at 04:18 PM.

08-10-2017, 01:17 PM	#14
Jerry Helper Major Leagues Join Date: May 2017 Location: Dallas Posts: 325	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UUy65ZpSP0 In this spirit of this thread, I give you this video. Just so we can take a moment and appreciate what a beast he was.

08-10-2017, 08:54 PM	#15
Painmantle Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Greenfield ,IN Posts: 3,053	Unless you turn on recalc, use historical transactions, miss seasons according to history ect.... all the things mention in this thread with regard to historical accuracy never happens because you are likely using the OOTP development engine. Which means players are brought in with potentials and they develop independently from their h9istorical counterparts, some players will be better than they were, some will be worse and some will be pretty close to what they actually were. But once you turn the player over to the OOTP Development engine, all bets are off! __________________ “As soon as I got out there I felt a strange relationship with the pitcher's mound. It was as if I'd been born out there. Pitching just felt like the most natural thing in the world. Striking out batters was easy.” -Babe Ruth “Ruth made a grave mistake when he gave up pitching. Working once a week, he might have lasted a long time and become a great star.”-Tris Speaker My Dynasties The Beantown Bambino

10-18-2017, 05:30 PM	#16
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,422	In my current game on a 100 scale Clemente still had an arm rating of 69 at age 43. He couldn't do anything else though, except hit singles at about a 260 rate. Up until 71 or 72 arm rating was 100. I consider all this reasonable.

10-25-2017, 08:44 AM	#17
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,266	Clemente's story might make a good baseball movie.

11-22-2017, 09:30 PM	#20
Brad K Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2016 Location: St Petersburg Florida USA Posts: 5,422	OF assists are not a direct measure of throwing ability. They are a measure of how often base runners underestimated throwing ability.