Does luck ever turn around?

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

This "its only one team" argument could also be easily applied to a team that is head and shoulders below everyone else, such as when a team is tanking.

Tanking is tanking regardless of how many do it. There isn't anything illegal about how soon a team is loaded up with super studs. Do you really believe the stuff you write or just throw it out there to see what sticks?

[bailey]

I think the OP should welcome it, if the team ahead of him decided to suddenly switch out all his good pitchers with irons and begin to tank. I suspect though that this team will wait until the division series to do that.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by bailey

I think the OP should welcome it, if the team ahead of him decided to suddenly switch out all his good pitchers with irons and begin to tank. I suspect though that this team will wait until the division series to do that.

This guy has 2 perfects, 4 diamonds, and the rest are gold. He's running a 4-man bullpen with relievers (not high STA starters, somehow).


He had a .790 WP% his first year and didn't advance. I have to play this guy because he couldn't make it out of iron with this team? WTF? And he actually did better last year win percentage-wise.

He's actually 6 games worse than his pythag record, and he has a +333 run differential at the 2/3 mark of the season. 8 teams in the league don't even have that many TOTAL runs on offense and that's his differential. This is basically what I see every season. Not to this ridiculous extent, but a very similar model.

[HRBaker]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; if teams were promoted based on win/loss instead of playoff results - and the demotions/promotions were greater at the higher levels, a lot of what has been written here as frustration wouldn't exist.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; if teams were promoted based on win/loss instead of playoff results - and the demotions/promotions were greater at the higher levels, a lot of what has been written here as frustration wouldn't exist.

Yeah. I wonder why Im seeing it so much more in PT2.0 than I did in 1.0? I may have seen this once in my entire time of PT. Whenever I didn't advance then it was mostly my fault with a sprinkle of bad luck. It seems like bad luck plays a significantly greater part this year for some reason. Any speculation as to why?

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Tanking is tanking regardless of how many do it. There isn't anything illegal about how soon a team is loaded up with super studs. Do you really believe the stuff you write or just throw it out there to see what sticks?

A super loaded team is basically earning points at the same rate as a normal team that was playing 29 tanking teams. It is every bit as bad for the balance of the game. I am sorry that you fail to recognize that extremes in BOTH directions are negative.

[Goliathus]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Yeah. I wonder why Im seeing it so much more in PT2.0 than I did in 1.0? I may have seen this once in my entire time of PT. Whenever I didn't advance then it was mostly my fault with a sprinkle of bad luck. It seems like bad luck plays a significantly greater part this year for some reason. Any speculation as to why?

Did you play PT19 since the first season of it? I joined late and I assumed all the seasons have put all the teams that are supposed to be up up. Thus, the lower levels have a lot less "teams that are not supposed to be here".

Also, PT19 is the first PT, so people might not be as knowledgeable as they are now. They also don't know going up too fast is not always good(depending on how one thinks, of course) Now that they have a full year of experience under their belt, they know how to game the system if they intend to.


PT20 is still new, late joining whales are still actively joining. This increases the amount of whale teams that have to go through all the levels spreading across the lower levels. The slow Pro/Rel rate doesn't help this either.


Though I don't think the team you have an issue with is doing anything wrong though. Dude could be a whale and just did not win the playoff last season. If he stayed in Iron for 4 seasons, then it's more susceptible.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Dogberry99

A super loaded team is basically earning points at the same rate as a normal team that was playing 29 tanking teams. It is every bit as bad for the balance of the game. I am sorry that you fail to recognize that extremes in BOTH directions are negative.

one is legal one is not. One can be done only while moving up and one can be done as long as a person wants and does not get caught. I am sorry that doing the right thing escapes you.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by Goliathus

Did you play PT19 since the first season of it? I joined late and I assumed all the seasons have put all the teams that are supposed to be up up. Thus, the lower levels have a lot less "teams that are not supposed to be here".

Also, PT19 is the first PT, so people might not be as knowledgeable as they are now. They also don't know going up too fast is not always good(depending on how one thinks, of course) Now that they have a full year of experience under their belt, they know how to game the system if they intend to.


PT20 is still new, late joining whales are still actively joining. This increases the amount of whale teams that have to go through all the levels spreading across the lower levels. The slow Pro/Rel rate doesn't help this either.


Though I don't think the team you have an issue with is doing anything wrong though. Dude could be a whale and just did not win the playoff last season. If he stayed in Iron for 4 seasons, then it's more susceptible.

I got into pt19 after the 2018 season so everything you said seems to make sense. And I never said the team in question did anything wrong. I'm simply highlighting how laughably head and shoulders above everyone else he is.

Its like a single-A team having one major league team inserted into their league but having it be a different team every year.
Alas, it won't change so I'll just be stuck in iron until it does. *shrug*

[old timer]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

one is legal one is not. One can be done only while moving up and one can be done as long as a person wants and does not get caught. I am sorry that doing the right thing escapes you.

Dogberry99 said "It is every bit as bad for the balance of the game". He was simply showing the similarity between the legal way to play and the illegal way to play and suggested that neither is good for the balance of the game even though one of them is legal.

Also... Something may be legal, but is it necessarily good? Something may be illegal, but is it necessarily bad? Sometimes what's legal or not, needs some tweaking.

I spent a lot of money this time in PT, but to keep from steamrolling the competition, I held back my best players while moving up. I used a self-imposed "salary cap" and I found it to be much more enjoyable. My team made it to the conference championship in bronze and silver and won the gold championship, all the while, holding back players like Keefe, Clarkson, etc, who are now dominating at the perfect level.

My point is, it was perfectly legal for me to thump the competition at the lower levels, but I didn't see any fun in that and held back. I'm not sure if it makes sense for the developers to change anything in this respect so I'm not suggesting any such thing. But I'm just pointing out that super-teams at the lower levels do affect the fun for quite a number of people, but not allowing that might limit profitability so it wouldn't then be prudent for them to change this. But is crushing the competition really "doing the right thing" just because it's legal to do so? Extreme differences in a system where some are far above others may be legal, but are they really good?

If there's a way for the developers to limit the imbalances somewhat without it affecting profitability (and maybe even by increasing it), then I'm sure they'll do so. Otherwise, the current system may never change in this respect, but I don't think that makes it good or the "right thing".

[Findest2001]

Well said, Old timer.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by old timer

But is crushing the competition really "doing the right thing" just because it's legal to do so?

Yes, absolutely. It's a game. The people being "crushed' are not being oppressed. They get to log off and go back to their lives. They aren't losing anything tangible or important.


EDIT: Let me be clear about this. I mean that it is the right thing to do to try to win at all costs, even if it means steamrolling the competition. It is NOT the right thing to do to tank the playoffs in the hope of getting to steamroll weak competition again next season. It is right to play all out to win, but not to try to lose in order to gain an advantage.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

This guy has 2 perfects, 4 diamonds, and the rest are gold. He's running a 4-man bullpen with relievers (not high STA starters, somehow).


He had a .790 WP% his first year and didn't advance. I have to play this guy because he couldn't make it out of iron with this team? WTF? And he actually did better last year win percentage-wise.

He's actually 6 games worse than his pythag record, and he has a +333 run differential at the 2/3 mark of the season. 8 teams in the league don't even have that many TOTAL runs on offense and that's his differential. This is basically what I see every season. Not to this ridiculous extent, but a very similar model.

That's what I am saying: this guy may tank the Division Series to stay in Iron another week. Would that be "cheating"? To win 120+ games and tank the DS? If he "cheats" you have a free ride out of iron (assuming you win the WC game). The biggest tanking loophole in the game is not promoting the playoff teams and allowing 120+ win teams to tank in the playoffs. They should at least promote the division winners if not all playoff teams. If such a player has invested $100s of dollars in the game, I don't see what incentive the developers have to ban a good PAYING customer like this.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by bailey

That's what I am saying: this guy may tank the Division Series to stay in Iron another week. Would that be "cheating"? To win 120+ games and tank the DS?

Yes, this is clearly wrong and it violates the ToS. It might be hard to detect, but the player should be punished if caught.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Yes, this is clearly wrong and it violates the ToS. It might be hard to detect, but the player should be punished if caught.

To win 120+ games in the first week of play means cash was invested and if someone invests cash I just can't imagine why the developers would ban a guy for that and forego future revenue from this person.

[Ty Cobb]

Maybe you could post a screenshot of your roster and take suggestions from others? I've been successful, although not wildly so, and I'd gladly offer any help I could rather than see someone walk away in frustration. There are a lot of others here who would as well.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by bailey

To win 120+ games in the first week of play means cash was invested and if someone invests cash I just can't imagine why the developers would ban a guy for that and forego future revenue from this person.

If they are serious about their ToS, and I believe that they are, they would enforce it under all circumstances. Blizzard bans paying customers from WoW. Why should OOTPD be different?

[old timer]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Yes, absolutely. It's a game. The people being "crushed' are not being oppressed. They get to log off and go back to their lives. They aren't losing anything tangible or important.


EDIT: Let me be clear about this. I mean that it is the right thing to do to try to win at all costs, even if it means steamrolling the competition. It is NOT the right thing to do to tank the playoffs in the hope of getting to steamroll weak competition again next season. It is right to play all out to win, but not to try to lose in order to gain an advantage.

You provided a respectable answer, but I don't agree with it. Unfortunately, trying to explain my thinking here would go too far off-topic (but it's so tempting) and involve typing way more than I'd want to. So I'll try to stay out of this for now - until the next time I get silly and want to comment again.

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Orcin

If they are serious about their ToS, and I believe that they are, they would enforce it under all circumstances. Blizzard bans paying customers from WoW. Why should OOTPD be different?

There is a fellow who is using (and talking about it on the forum) an all unsung iron hero team and claiming it is OK because it is a theme team. If they don't come out against that, then are they really serious about their TOS?

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by bailey

There is a fellow who is using (and talking about it on the forum) an all unsung iron hero team and claiming it is OK because it is a theme team. If they don't come out against that, then are they really serious about their TOS?

He's no longer using all unsung iron heroes, I believe. So we don't know if the devs made him change, or if he changed on his own accord.