Was trade logic tweaked in the last patch, because it's brutal now

[malichai11]

I've been playing on Very Hard/Heavily favor prospects for years. Something seems different now.

I'm trying to acquire a 19 y/o right fielder who's 20/68.

I'm offering a 19 y/o 39/80 SS, and a 18 y/o 28/76 CF as a starting point. Nothing. There is not a single player in my entire organization they'll accept to make this work. Wowza. Alright, let me throw on another 18 year old potential superstar who's 28/78. Still nothing. Still, make this work has zero players I can add on to make this work. I have a 2-way player who's 66/80 as a SP and 53/80 as a RF. They aren't even asking for him to close the deal.

This player I'm trying to acquire is a completely undeveloped potential all-star. Not potential superstar.

Alright, let's move the difficulty down to Hard/Heavily Favor. Okay, make this work and he'll now accept those 3 players mentioned above and a 75/70 23 y/o 2b signed for another 8 years or a 65/59 25 y/o SS signed for a very team friendly deal.

How about average trade difficulty, heavily favor prospects. Now there are 6 other players in my organization, in addition to the 3 potential superstars I'm already offering that he'll accept.

Listen, in a good week of playing OOTP, I might make hundreds of trades. Not an exaggeration. I see a LOT of data. But this is all just anecdotal. Something feels REALLY different now.

I also tried to take a run at re-acquiring a 20/80 SP I accidentally traded away (I foolishly thought his ratings were dropping, but I screwed up and it was because of a difference between him as a RP vs SP). Impossible. No amount of potential superstars would they accept until I lowered the trade difficulty down to Hard from Very Hard.

Hey, I have lots of dials I can tweak and turn here. I can lower trade difficulty, I can change the prospect favor setting, and I'm going to play with all of this. But it feels like the trade AI dial was just CRANKED. I am not complaining! Not at ALL! I'm just trying to figure out what's happened.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by malichai11

Listen, in a good week of playing OOTP, I might make hundreds of trades. Not an exaggeration. I see a LOT of data. But this is all just anecdotal. Something feels REALLY different now.

I find this claim and concept fascinating. Anecdotal collections of experience are as real as it gets in our personal game worlds. And I can only imagine a person making hundreds of trades and the whirlwind of assessments taking place. Hundreds. I find it phenomenal.

So, that difference, beyond it being harder, tighter? Identify it yet?

[MizzouRah]

I always welcome harder trading vs being able to rip off the AI.

[pgjocki]

I play with house rules and only allow myself three trades per year and haven't made a 100 trades total since 2014.

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[malichai11]

Originally Posted by endgame

I find this claim and concept fascinating. Anecdotal collections of experience are as real as it gets in our personal game worlds. And I can only imagine a person making hundreds of trades and the whirlwind of assessments taking place. Hundreds. I find it phenomenal.

So, that difference, beyond it being harder, tighter? Identify it yet?

I'm disabled. I'm home all day, every day. A good week might be 80+ hours of OOTP. The only games I play out are games 6 and/or 7 of the World Series. Otherwise it's simulating with interludes to trade. I stop the simulating every other month to check to see if there are risers in the prospect ranks of other teams or fallers in the prospect ranks of mine. I then look to reverse those.



Maybe the issue has nothing to do with overall trade AI, maybe, for whatever reason, the AI is not valuing my 39/80 19 y/o SS as much as they should. Why am I trying to trade him? His prospective eye is slowly dropping. I want to pull out now in case that doesn't stabilize. Is the AI now taking that stuff into account?



I'm going to keep making trades and seeing if I can identify exactly what is happening. But I might end up making far fewer trades now if I'm having to trade 3 potential superstars for 1 potential allstar.

[malichai11]

Originally Posted by pgjocki

I play with house rules and only allow myself three trades per year and haven't made a 100 trades total since 2014.

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For me, that would be like playing a FPS and limiting myself to a couple shots an hour.

[Hasta la vista pelota]

Just spit-balling, but maybe the AI identifies players on its roster it just doesn't want to trade. Personal favorites and such.

Again, just a guess. That's how I would look at it if other trades are going through.

[Gerry58]

Originally Posted by malichai11

I've been playing on Very Hard/Heavily favor prospects for years. Something seems different now.

I'm trying to acquire a 19 y/o right fielder who's 20/68.

I'm offering a 19 y/o 39/80 SS, and a 18 y/o 28/76 CF as a starting point. Nothing. There is not a single player in my entire organization they'll accept to make this work. Wowza. Alright, let me throw on another 18 year old potential superstar who's 28/78. Still nothing. Still, make this work has zero players I can add on to make this work. I have a 2-way player who's 66/80 as a SP and 53/80 as a RF. They aren't even asking for him to close the deal.

This player I'm trying to acquire is a completely undeveloped potential all-star. Not potential superstar.

Alright, let's move the difficulty down to Hard/Heavily Favor. Okay, make this work and he'll now accept those 3 players mentioned above and a 75/70 23 y/o 2b signed for another 8 years or a 65/59 25 y/o SS signed for a very team friendly deal.

How about average trade difficulty, heavily favor prospects. Now there are 6 other players in my organization, in addition to the 3 potential superstars I'm already offering that he'll accept.

Listen, in a good week of playing OOTP, I might make hundreds of trades. Not an exaggeration. I see a LOT of data. But this is all just anecdotal. Something feels REALLY different now.

I also tried to take a run at re-acquiring a 20/80 SP I accidentally traded away (I foolishly thought his ratings were dropping, but I screwed up and it was because of a difference between him as a RP vs SP). Impossible. No amount of potential superstars would they accept until I lowered the trade difficulty down to Hard from Very Hard.

Hey, I have lots of dials I can tweak and turn here. I can lower trade difficulty, I can change the prospect favor setting, and I'm going to play with all of this. But it feels like the trade AI dial was just CRANKED. I am not complaining! Not at ALL! I'm just trying to figure out what's happened.

Maybe 'very hard' now just means very hard

[Matt Arnold]

The biggest thing is whether the AI views players differently than you do. You see him with 68 potential, maybe they see him with 80 potential, and they think you're giving a bunch of mediocre prospects for their stud.

The AI is also intentionally designed that they will rarely just swap prospects. Generally speaking, if a team picked up a prospect, they'll keep him until they either give up on them, use them as bait for something else they need, or enjoy them on their team.

[Matt Arnold]

The biggest thing is whether the AI views players differently than you do. You see him with 68 potential, maybe they see him with 80 potential, and they think you're giving a bunch of mediocre prospects for their stud.

The AI is also intentionally designed that they will rarely just swap prospects. Generally speaking, if a team picked up a prospect, they'll keep him until they either give up on them, use them as bait for something else they need, or enjoy them on their team.

[Chico Guilbault]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

The biggest thing is whether the AI views players differently than you do. You see him with 68 potential, maybe they see him with 80 potential, and they think you're giving a bunch of mediocre prospects for their stud.

The AI is also intentionally designed that they will rarely just swap prospects. Generally speaking, if a team picked up a prospect, they'll keep him until they either give up on them, use them as bait for something else they need, or enjoy them on their team.

I don't know...i think it sounded better the first time.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by malichai11

For me, that would be like playing a FPS and limiting myself to a couple shots an hour.

My wife always comments on my massive amount of trades. 50+ per year?

[sabrtoothtiger]

gotta think there is an endowment effect with trades as well. typically teams (& individuals) overvalue what they already own. I think this logical is going down the right path by the programmers.

How many legit prospect for prospect trades can you think of that happened in real life?

[jcmurr]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

The biggest thing is whether the AI views players differently than you do. You see him with 68 potential, maybe they see him with 80 potential, and they think you're giving a bunch of mediocre prospects for their stud.

The AI is also intentionally designed that they will rarely just swap prospects. Generally speaking, if a team picked up a prospect, they'll keep him until they either give up on them, use them as bait for something else they need, or enjoy them on their team.

It pretty much has to be this. You can also see the inverse of this when making trades with the AI where you can swindle them by offering a 1-2* prospect that your scout views as non-projectable, but that the opposing scout/GM views very highly.

Those players also typically come up in trade requests all the time. I take note though when multiple teams begin asking around for that player, as my scout may be undervaluing him.

Especially on VH/prospect trade settings, it’s nearly impossible wrestling top prospects away from clubs unless they are in win-now mode. Generally I give up on trying for these guys unless they fit an organizational need for me because the cost is way too high.

In OP’s example, out of habit, I would have stopped at offering even one of my prospects for the other club’s prospect because it’d never work.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

The biggest thing is whether the AI views players differently than you do. You see him with 68 potential, maybe they see him with 80 potential, and they think you're giving a bunch of mediocre prospects for their stud.

The AI is also intentionally designed that they will rarely just swap prospects. Generally speaking, if a team picked up a prospect, they'll keep him until they either give up on them, use them as bait for something else they need, or enjoy them on their team.

I'm really glad to read that bolded part. A prospect-for-prospect trade very rarely happens in real life, so OOTP should be that way. The last one I can remember in real life was the Michael Pineda-for-Jesus Montero trade, and that didn't work out for either team.

[slugga27]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I'm really glad to read that bolded part. A prospect-for-prospect trade very rarely happens in real life, so OOTP should be that way. The last one I can remember in real life was the Michael Pineda-for-Jesus Montero trade, and that didn't work out for either team.

And that wasn’t even a true prospect trade. Pineda was coming off a strong year in Seattle. That feeds more into the point being made, though (and that’s not a bad thing).


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[jimmysthebestcop]

"I'm trying to acquire a 19 y/o right fielder who's 20/68."

Sounds like you are looking for a specific player from a specific team.

If that player was on another team he might be valued less or more .

If I use find a player and find 5 players with relative ratings and stats I'm looking for. Almost never can I offer the same thing to each team and get them.

And one of the teams might highly value that player and another under value.

Lots of variables

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by slugga27

And that wasn’t even a true prospect trade. Pineda was coming off a strong year in Seattle. That feeds more into the point being made, though (and that’s not a bad thing).


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Right, but there was the belief that he was only going to get better. I'm not sure there's ever been a trade of top 100 prospects for each other.