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Old 12-03-2014, 05:42 AM   #1
davehibb
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Pitching... Is It All About Stuff?

Going back over threads listed in the knowledge base and some dynasty reports, it seems like Stuff/Movement/Control are the primary things guys look for rather than the actual ability to throw a certain type of pitch...

Can you get buy with guys with say 16-20 in those categories even if they are only 12-14 say for each type of pitch? Is there a tipping point? Are guts that are like 14-15 rated for Stuff/Movement/Control and various pitches a waste of dollars?
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:41 AM   #2
Leo_The_Lip
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I'll try to give you a shorter answer to a somewhat complex in-game design.

First you need to understand the Big Three: Stuff, Movement and Control. These (plus ground ball percentage) are what I use to look for pitchers. The rest -- pitches and stamina -- mostly matter for the pitcher's role on your team.

Stuff translate into the ability to strikeout batters. The higher the STUFF rating, the more strikeouts you should expect. Control is how often does the batter walk hitters. Higher means fewer walks allowed and is a good thing. Movement (which could mean other things, but in OOTP terms does NOT) is the ability to prevent home runs. Higher is better and low MOVEMENT means lots of home runs allowed.

The STUFF rating is derived from the individual pitch ratings, so high pitch ratings will yield high STUFF ratings. Certain pitches such as sinkers will produce high groundball ratings. You will learn which pitches do this through experience.

Movement is generally independent of pitch type (at least that appears to be the concensus today).

I look for high groundball rates, high movement and high control to build my staff. This requires at least very good shortstops and secondbasemen to catch all the groundballs. I will usually look for a closer with high STUFF to come in and strike out batters with the game on the line.

There are other ways to build a staff, but this way works well for me.
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:46 AM   #3
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I place pitch quality highest, within limits.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:22 PM   #4
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So essentially a guy with mediocre pitches but high stuff/movement/control should be more effective then a guy with quality pitches and mediocre s/m/c?

And someone with green everywhere is pretty crappy?
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davehibb View Post
So essentially a guy with mediocre pitches but high stuff/movement/control should be more effective then a guy with quality pitches and mediocre s/m/c?

And someone with green everywhere is pretty crappy?
I think it is not possible to have high STUFF without highly rated pitches, so that is the same thing. That is, if you sort by high STUFF, you should see two high quality pitches. The type of pitches is less directly related to MOVEMENT and not at all to CONTROL.

So a guy with so-so stuff that keeps the ball down and at the same time does not walk very many should be more effective than a guy who strikes out a ton of batters and gives up few hits but whose few hits go over the wall after walking a batter or two.

RichW looks for pitches knowing what S/M/C they correlate to, I look for S/M/C knowing that means the pitches RichW looks for will be there. We are coming at the problem from different sides but producing the same results. You should pick which ever method seems most natural to you.
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Old 12-03-2014, 01:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
I think it is not possible to have high STUFF without highly rated pitches, so that is the same thing. That is, if you sort by high STUFF, you should see two high quality pitches. The type of pitches is less directly related to MOVEMENT and not at all to CONTROL.

So a guy with so-so stuff that keeps the ball down and at the same time does not walk very many should be more effective than a guy who strikes out a ton of batters and gives up few hits but whose few hits go over the wall after walking a batter or two.

RichW looks for pitches knowing what S/M/C they correlate to, I look for S/M/C knowing that means the pitches RichW looks for will be there. We are coming at the problem from different sides but producing the same results. You should pick which ever method seems most natural to you.
Well said Leo.

Dave see below for an example of how the interrelationship works. Alvarez is in decline as you can see by his pitches and velocity. In his prime he had the best stuff in the league. Alex Vera is very unusual; a successful 2-pitch pitcher because his two pitches are exceptional, better than anybody else in the league. I was curious enough to look under the hood to see Vera's true ratings.

So given a choice I look for exceptional pitches/stuff and control.
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Old 12-03-2014, 02:01 PM   #7
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Alex Vera gives up more homers than I'd expect, given his MOVEMENT rating. Do you think this due to his throwing that crap change-up too much? I've always been reluctant to start players like this (the third pitch is crap types) because they do seem to yield too many long balls when in the rotation. But they make good closers.
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Old 12-03-2014, 04:49 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Leo_The_Lip View Post
Alex Vera gives up more homers than I'd expect, given his MOVEMENT rating. Do you think this due to his throwing that crap change-up too much? I've always been reluctant to start players like this (the third pitch is crap types) because they do seem to yield too many long balls when in the rotation. But they make good closers.
I'm inclined to think it's by throwing strikes. Vera's career HR/9 is 1.1 which is pretty good for Colorado IMO.

Given his WHIP and WAR numbers and IP, I can't imagine a better 3rd starter. He would have been wasted as a reliever.
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Old 12-04-2014, 05:23 AM   #9
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Thanks for explaining things guys.

I think I get it now!
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:05 AM   #10
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I'm inclined to think it's by throwing strikes. Vera's career HR/9 is 1.1 which is pretty good for Colorado IMO.

Given his WHIP and WAR numbers and IP, I can't imagine a better 3rd starter. He would have been wasted as a reliever.
Yes, I overlooked the Colorado factor.
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