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OOTP 18 - General Discussions Everything about the 2017 version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

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Old 08-08-2017, 10:07 PM   #1
knightnorth
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My take on 18 - losing interest

I'm going to be a little pick here but let me say I really like the game and its additions through the year. Some of my complaints are long standing issues with AI and systems in the game. My favorite thing from 17 to 18 is the injury system. I like the addition of a bundle of dtd nagging injuries that effect a team throughout the year.

My biggest complaint comes from something I love. The game is brilliantly detailed as we all know. So much to the point that I've taken to just playing either GM or coach instead doing everything like I used to. I like the detail and getting into every aspect that I had to pick one or the other because doing both was too cumbersome for my playing style.

My problem with doing either is the stupidity of the AI. If I play as coach the GM will make ridiculously poor trades or rush developing players to the majors and burn out their potential. I play mostly historical seasons and starting with expansion teams. Instead of saving talent the AI will trade 5 star development players for 2-3 star backups. I get that maybe in real life a GM will be under pressure to make moves to save their jobs, but there should be some players even the owner protects so a panicked GM doesn't blow up the team. The game is still bogged down with silly proposals that nobody would ever make and those I can ignore. But an AI GM if left unchecked will make those ridiculous trades. It get unplayable unless I disable trades and it feels wrong to play without trades. Then in the off season the GM will sign a 4 star RF when I already have a 4 star RF, but the free agent was 3 years younger and that goes along with it's youthful approach or whatever. So I eventually more to being the GM.

As GM I have to deal with stupid coaches. Coaches who will turn All Star starting pitchers into spot relievers. Their stats don't make much sense either. I can't find a manager who can control a locker room and they're oddly picky about what strategy I can manage. Sometimes I have to force them to start a pitcher or a player who is an obvious starter choice, but when I do the pitcher goes to the #1 position and the coach never substitutes the position player.

So I go back to doing both GM and coaching and the game gets ridiculously easy. I'm dealing with an AI who makes all those foolish trades and coaches who poorly mismanage their rosters. That I've dealt with over the years with OOTP so I've gotten used to doing things that limit myself to make it a challenge. Over the last two years of OOTP it feels like the financials have been broken too with the owner's personalities and the market sizes are way off. Even a small market team can continuously sell out for decades and the owner gives them enough money to be a perennial winner. Ok, Atlanta kinda did that in the 90's but that was a perfect scenario of everything coming together, in OOTP it's every single time. I took the Expos from '69 and built a dynasty because I always had the money and could nearly sell out the 47,000 seat Olympic Stadium in Montreal. Usually after buying the top player or two in free agency I had $10mil left over. More money than I could spend. Montreal should be a challenge for any owner but it's just too easy without even trying.

I've tried messing with the options and settings. A couple times I used commish make realistic fan interest and market sizes and owner's personalities. But to do that every time I start a game, for every team, and do it again every time a team moves or expansion or any time an owner dies is very tedious. I end up just altering the way I play - dumbing down my own decisions to the AI's level. Limiting the players I'll sign and not taking advantage of their easy trading. But I never get that real challenge because no matter what I do I'm usually just one piece away from dominating and never really struggle. Just losing interest.

One more thing as an aside. Every iteration of this game I try to get Pete Rose around his 4256. Never come close. Usually cant get him to 3000 hits. I will start a game in the 1969 expansion era and go from there. I've used real ratings, OOTP developing ratings, I've even used the edit option to put in my own ratings in but I don't go too crazy. The computer never gets him to that point where in his late 30's he's getting around 200 hits. A lot of times he gets benched in the 70's because they don't factor in his willingness to learn new positions to be a starter. I would say that that is a testament to someone getting 4000 hits. But I recent;y just got Pedro Guerrero to 3800 without even trying. In real life he didn't even hit 2000. The AI just did its thing of starting a developing player too early and he had a good string of starting late in his career. This after struggling so many years with Rose. Does the OOTP devs not like him or something and write code to keep him down? Just saying.
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:31 PM   #2
Mr. Marlin
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Well, I can't argue about any complaint with the trading AI. That's been in need of improvement for some time.

This is just my $.02 here. In when historical minors were introduced in the last version I did something I never do. I played a historical game. After about 22 seasons I had to stop. The problem with baseball is loving the sport and knowing it's history tend to go hand in hand. So when you see things that didn't happen, and couldn't have happened it killed the immersion for me. Even though I KNEW that is how the game is supposed to work. It's supposed to turn out a little (or a lot) differently unless you have all the true historical restrictions activated. Doing that is so restrictive it didn't appeal and not using led to outcomes I couldn't buy.

So I did, once again, what I'm going to suggest to you: go back to playing fictional games. In a fictional game there are no preconceived notions, no expectations. You are meeting the players for the first time and have no notions on how they or the teams will perform. Every season will be a clean sheet of paper and you will have no idea how it will turn out. I think you should give that a shot before walking away.
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:36 PM   #3
ButtersFTW
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Totally disagree. The game continues to improve in my opinion. The advancement of the 3D graphical interface has been amazing. Trading will always be a challenge. Why dont you just do trades that you determine to be fair.
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Old 08-08-2017, 10:56 PM   #4
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Curious what settings you use on your Trade AI. Also, I would not use the Stars; this is my first year not using them, and it has made a substantial difference.

It’s just my opinion, but I think the game is “optimized” for MLB standard starts. Anyway, I’d be curious what the settings are and what type of league you usually play.
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:06 PM   #5
knightnorth
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Originally Posted by ButtersFTW View Post
Totally disagree. The game continues to improve in my opinion. The advancement of the 3D graphical interface has been amazing. Trading will always be a challenge. Why dont you just do trades that you determine to be fair.
I might not know what the graphic interface is. Is that the little stick guys who move to the ball in PBP mode? I just use the old 2D PBP with quick text. I don't think 3D graphics is really in my wheelhouse, I'm more into the statistics and analysis strategy of the game.

I do do the trades that are fair by my standards for my team. But going through the feeds to analyze every trade of the other 29 teams is a bit of a task. No matter what I do within a couple years one team foolishly trades away all their talented SP while another has 3 CF they can't use. It doesn't take too long before you find a couple teams with their best Starter with a half star rating and other teams benching all star caliber talent because it had a weakness at one position and traded for a bunch of players at that one position only.

I get what you're saying, and I appreciate the advice. But this game has no feeling of competitive to me. The AI and financials are just way out of wack and their just isn't any features in 2018 that make me feel good about the game.
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Old 08-08-2017, 11:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Calvert98 View Post
Curious what settings you use on your Trade AI. Also, I would not use the Stars; this is my first year not using them, and it has made a substantial difference.

It’s just my opinion, but I think the game is “optimized” for MLB standard starts. Anyway, I’d be curious what the settings are and what type of league you usually play.
Whatever the default trade system is Difficulty - Average / Preference - Neutral.

99% of the time I play in historical league starting in the expansion era. Last time I played in a modern league was in the 17 edition and the computer traded Max Scherzer and Stephen Strasburg from the Nats in the same season when they were making a playoff run. I get that those contracts are impossible if you want to sign Harper, but nobody's going to do that during playoff runs. It ruined the allure for me and I quit before free agency.
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Old 08-09-2017, 12:18 AM   #7
Calvert98
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Whatever the default trade system is Difficulty - Average / Preference - Neutral.

99% of the time I play in historical league starting in the expansion era. Last time I played in a modern league was in the 17 edition and the computer traded Max Scherzer and Stephen Strasburg from the Nats in the same season when they were making a playoff run. I get that those contracts are impossible if you want to sign Harper, but nobody's going to do that during playoff runs. It ruined the allure for me and I quit before free agency.
Yea, I can see how that Nat's trade could do that.

I think things have and do continue to improve in 18. The AI of course is something that is always be improving in a simulation this complex.

I would suggest two things: Change the Trade AI settings to "Very Hard" and "Favor prospects". And drop the stars altogether.
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:57 AM   #8
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you need an online fictional league in your life. you think you're so good? give the TBC a shot where every GM could own the AI.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:45 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by knightnorth View Post
Last time I played in a modern league was in the 17 edition and the computer traded Max Scherzer and Stephen Strasburg from the Nats in the same season when they were making a playoff run. I get that those contracts are impossible if you want to sign Harper, but nobody's going to do that during playoff runs. It ruined the allure for me and I quit before free agency.
Just another reason I play with fictional rosters. Has anyone seen this kind of asinine AI behavior in 18' and are AI teams that are in contention for the playoffs even aware that they're in contention when evaluating trades?
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:04 AM   #10
knightnorth
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you need an online fictional league in your life. you think you're so good? give the TBC a shot where every GM could own the AI.
Oh, I don't think I'm that good or try to be braggadocios. Most people I know stopped playing years ago because the game was too easy for them. I enjoy the challenge of humans and I genuinly believe that online play is where the fun is in this game I just could never find one that met my playing style or level of expectation. Some leagues have dumbed down the detail to keep the save file small and I need that full level of statistical detail and deep minor league level to keep my interest up. Eventually all online commish's seem to break the game in their own way in an attempt to combat against the games natural breaks. The last online league I was in every team had over $20mil cash and their was never a quality free agent on the market because each team could afford to keep their stars so to fix it the commish made first round draft picks fully developed to help poor teams stay competitive. This had the result of 18 year olds competing for Cy Young and MVP.

Eventually online leagues bothered me because of how tediously slow it was. Weeks to get through a season and after a month later I'm supposed to keep my interest up to full level. I've got too short attention span and that's not fair to the other players. Most my play time is in an airport or on a plane or trains and I'm as picky about my public wifi as I am a public toilet. After a couple times of not getting my roster uploaded on time I just feel guilty and have to back out.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:23 AM   #11
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OP just stated every reason why I play out every team game.... I do not trust the AI to handle things . Although I do delegate the minors. I will keep am eye on several players making sure they were they should be
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:42 AM   #12
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OP just stated every reason why I play out every team game.... I do not trust the AI to handle things . Although I do delegate the minors. I will keep am eye on several players making sure they were they should be
The OP is pointing out that the other teams are run by the same AI that you won't trust, thus making the game too easy. Fictional teams are run by this AI also. Once you know the players really well, you begin to see the same incompetence there. Fictional is not harder; it just takes more effort to learn the league.

I can't argue with any of the OP's points. If you want more proof, look at the Challenge Mode leaderboard where hundreds of players routinely win over 100 games per year.

Personally, I still really enjoy this game despite its flaws. I love baseball and this is the best simulation out there by far.

Last edited by Orcin; 08-09-2017 at 09:45 AM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:05 AM   #13
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OP just stated every reason why I play out every team game.... I do not trust the AI to handle things . Although I do delegate the minors. I will keep am eye on several players making sure they were they should be
I play-out all of my games too, using those settings I mentioned above; I did a little research on-line before I started, and have found them to be simple but very worth-while changes. In any event, I haven’t see any really odd-ball trades in my OOTP 18 game yet with the standard MLB start (I’m about to enter 2019). Candidly, the 2017 season played-out so close to current real life, at least up to this point, that it was uncanny; even some of the trades and waiver pick-ups.

The 2018 season saw a lot of “well, that makes complete sense” type trades and acquisitions; I was able to make a couple decent trades myself that seemed rather fair at the time, but one of them my team came-out really on the wrong-end as I watched a former prospect hit a stride and the guy they sent over get sent down to AAA. In particular, I am noticing those big market teams such as LA can and will go deep and stay competitive with big FAs when needed and teams with current good young talent emerge.

The 2018 playoffs were really wild, (a season where my team didn’t come even close) with SF making the Wild Card, and all the way to the NLCS. However, Madison Bumgarner went down with an injury in the NLCS and I thought, “man this could do it for SF”; it did as they lost 4-1 to Cleveland in the World Series, with the final game being the one he probably would have started. Cleveland really had a heck of a season in 2018 with something like 109 wins.

Last edited by Calvert98; 08-09-2017 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:22 AM   #14
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The OP is pointing out that the other teams are run by the same AI that you won't trust, thus making the game too easy. Fictional teams are run by this AI also. Once you know the players really well, you begin to see the same incompetence there. Fictional is not harder; it just takes more effort to learn the league.

I can't argue with any of the OP's points. If you want more proof, look at the Challenge Mode leaderboard where hundreds of players routinely win over 100 games per year.

Personally, I still really enjoy this game despite its flaws. I love baseball and this is the best simulation out there by far.
Yea, from what I have read, I think that Challenge mode or out-of-the-box is too easy. I wouldn't play it "as wrapped" at this point.

Also, I get the AI needs improvement and always will; again, with a simulation this complex, that is something that will continue to require attention. The AI (trade/team management etc...) and 3D are the two areas I would like to see a big portion of OOTPD's resources spent over the next couple versions.

I will say that 18 seems to have seen some significant improvements overall. And if knightnorth want's a more challenging experience, letting go of those, for lack of a better term "player advantages" such as average Trade AI, that doesn't favor prospects and the "Stars", I think that would be a good start.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:23 AM   #15
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The one thing that has kept me going over the years is playing stats only. And I know this can open a whole new can of worms, but has forced me to pay more attention to my players, when doing the draft, and also the other players in the league. I currently took over Seattle during their entry into the league, and like the challenge of building a team from scratch, and on a low budget. I usually have the lowest, or one of the lowest payrolls in the league, and want to see how successful I can be playing that way. I also though very much enjoy fictional, and have played a bit with promotion/relegation. The fact that there are so many different ways to play this game, has helped to hold my interest over the years. And having played nearly every sports sim game around, including Football Manager, American football games, horse racing, motorsports, etc., in the end, I always come back to OOTP, and find that's where most of my time is spent.
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:36 AM   #16
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the game can be as easy or as hard as you want to make it. it's not some rpg that you can "beat"
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Old 08-09-2017, 11:23 AM   #17
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Set trading to very low. The AI will still trade but you won't see as many bad ones. And set it to very hard for yourself. Also, turn of stars and ratings, and play stats only. Use teams with the smallest markets and lowest budgets.

Unfortunately, this won't make the AI any better for you, but it will make the game harder.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:41 PM   #18
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The OP is pointing out that the other teams are run by the same AI that you won't trust, thus making the game too easy. Fictional teams are run by this AI also. Once you know the players really well, you begin to see the same incompetence there. Fictional is not harder; it just takes more effort to learn the league.

I can't argue with any of the OP's points. If you want more proof, look at the Challenge Mode leaderboard where hundreds of players routinely win over 100 games per year.

Personally, I still really enjoy this game despite its flaws. I love baseball and this is the best simulation out there by far.
This really is the bottom line. Sometimes I think because we're immersed in the game, the flaws seem much larger than they really are. If we step back, it's really incredible that there is anything this detailed that we get to play as baseball fans!
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:49 PM   #19
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Oh, I don't think I'm that good
II thought the same thing when I started. Joined one that sounded intresting anyways. Twelve years later (**** I/m old) no regrets. It's the best way to play.
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:00 PM   #20
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the game can be as easy or as hard as you want to make it. it's not some rpg that you can "beat"
This.

OOTP is part game and part art. A lot of the posters in this thread don't seem to get the art part!

If you want break the game down, rip it apart and examine each piece go right ahead....I am just fine where I am sitting.
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