Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Developments > Talk Sports

Talk Sports Discuss everything that is sports-related, like MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, NASCAR, NCAA sports and teams, trades, coaches, bad calls etc.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2020, 10:12 PM   #21
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,270
CFIT is?
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 10:20 PM   #22
cephasjames
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,729
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
The kid is what made the difference with me and you now added one.
I was thinking more about the three Bryant kids who lost their dad than about the one kid who lost her life. And the wife who now has three kids to raise without her husband. That seems more tragic to me than a thirteen-year-old's death.
__________________
5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking
FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present
Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams
Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys
cephasjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 10:25 PM   #23
low
Hall Of Famer
 
low's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 5,718
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
CFIT is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contro...t_into_terrain
low is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2020, 11:09 PM   #24
ihatenames
Hall Of Famer
 
ihatenames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockford
Posts: 2,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
CFIT is?
Controlled Flight Into Terrain
__________________
New Album coming soon!
ihatenames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 12:32 AM   #25
dsvitak
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatenames View Post
The air traffic control audio is up in few places. I’ll wait for official ruling but it sounds like CFIT is a likely cause.
Flying through hills in that part of the country is tricky...the marine layer can be slow to lift, and it was still foggy at the time of the crash.

This helicopter was daytime VFR..not designed to fly unless visibility and cloud bases met certain criteria. Not sure that this was a safe flight, weather wise.
dsvitak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 12:41 AM   #26
dsvitak
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,807
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0pQfgi9ZqU

This is the actual radar recording of the flight, along with the weather data.

At the fifty second mark, KBUR (Burbank) weather observation had 2.5 miles visibility, with cloud bases at eleven hundred feet, overcast. This is the valley floor.

The location the helicopter crashed at was several hundred feet above the valley floor. The marine layer, at 1100 feet, was almost certainly at the hilltops. A cloud on a hilltop is fog. Visibility was zip when the helo smashed into the hill.

The Sikorsky has a service ceiling of 13,500 feet. The pilot should have gone directly up, and got on top of the weather. Part of the issue is that this is controlled airspace, with multiple major airports. He may not have had clearance to go very high...depends on a number of factors.

I'll look some more..try to get elevation data, but it absolutely looks to me that he did NOT have VFR (visual flight rules) weather conditions. The youtube video link I posted specifically mentions aircraft going around, and trying a second approach into the airport, and the local air traffic controller requested Bryant's pilot to circle until the pattern cleared out.
dsvitak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 12:49 AM   #27
dsvitak
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,807
Burbank elevation 600 feet, Calabasas elevation 950 feet, and the helo crashed on the hillside above the down..it looked like several hundred feet above.
dsvitak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 02:02 AM   #28
ihatenames
Hall Of Famer
 
ihatenames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockford
Posts: 2,535
I may have to listen again as this is from memory, but from the audio it sounds like he was told to maintain 1,500 feet due to traffic before being released from flight following after he was asked and claimed to the controller he had VFR conditions. At that point the controller asked if he wanted flight following to his destination (I assume) and he never answered.

I’ll listen again when I’m able.

Thanks for the insight on the weather conditions. VFR does seem dubious based on what you have said.
__________________
New Album coming soon!
ihatenames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 05:31 AM   #29
Ragnar
Hall Of Famer
 
Ragnar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,989
From what I'm hearing the LAPD's air support division grounded its helicopters until later that afternoon due to fog. They think it was a weather related crash. Going by the stretched out debris field it appears the copter was going very fast on impact, around 160mph.

That would be a damn shame.
Ragnar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 07:56 AM   #30
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,270
When the Smithsonian Channel had "Air Disasters" I used to ask myself "who watches this?" Now I know.


What I'm reading from you guys is the theory that the pilot couldn't see, flew too low, and crashed into a hill.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 01:08 PM   #31
Rizon
Hall Of Famer
 
Rizon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: SF Area, California Total Posts: 531,691
Posts: 2,363
Man. Brutal. Feel for everyone involved. I thought the Mamba would outlive me.

This was so wide reaching that even kids on the 2nd grade playground were talking about it this morning. I walked past 3 separate conversations about it.

Trying to think of the last shocking-too-early big name athlete death. Arthur Ashe we all saw coming. Has to be Clemente?
__________________
JML MILKSHAKES
Rizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 01:44 PM   #32
Cobra Mgr
Hall Of Famer
 
Cobra Mgr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizon View Post

Trying to think of the last shocking-too-early big name athlete death. Arthur Ashe we all saw coming. Has to be Clemente?
Len Bias is a name that comes to mind. Thurman Munson. Dale Earnhardt. Hank Gathers. Derrick Thomas. Lyman Bostock was big when I was a kid. Those were all playing and in their prime.

Out of all of them, Gathers was the biggest shock to me. Dude just dunked & then didn't make it back to half court. I'll never forget that one. People don't drop dead after dunking.
__________________
If a man is guilty
4 what goes on inside of his mind,
then let me get the electric chair
4 all my future crimes.

- Prince
Batdance
June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016
Cobra Mgr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 01:51 PM   #33
ihatenames
Hall Of Famer
 
ihatenames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockford
Posts: 2,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
When the Smithsonian Channel had "Air Disasters" I used to ask myself "who watches this?" Now I know.


What I'm reading from you guys is the theory that the pilot couldn't see, flew too low, and crashed into a hill.
That’s my read based on the evidence at hand (arc audio and tracking data), however there is a ton of other variables at play that we don’t know that can be at play. I’m an amateur wannabe pilot and far from an expert so take take my conjecture for what it’s worth. It’ll be interesting to see the final report.

It’s interesting to study these things because maybe you can learn from someone else’s mistake.
__________________
New Album coming soon!
ihatenames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 02:00 PM   #34
ukhotstove
Hall Of Famer
 
ukhotstove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of England Gods Country
Posts: 7,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizon View Post
Man. Brutal. Feel for everyone involved. I thought the Mamba would outlive me.

This was so wide reaching that even kids on the 2nd grade playground were talking about it this morning. I walked past 3 separate conversations about it.

Trying to think of the last shocking-too-early big name athlete death. Arthur Ashe we all saw coming. Has to be Clemente?
Ayrton Senna, I never felt the same about golf after Payne Stewart passed away.
ukhotstove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 02:54 PM   #35
dsvitak
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,807
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatenames View Post
That’s my read based on the evidence at hand (arc audio and tracking data), however there is a ton of other variables at play that we don’t know that can be at play. I’m an amateur wannabe pilot and far from an expert so take take my conjecture for what it’s worth. It’ll be interesting to see the final report.

It’s interesting to study these things because maybe you can learn from someone else’s mistake.
As an aviation meteorologist for more than 30 years, a CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) is almost a certainty.

The pilot, when faced with rough terrain, and fog/stratus severely restricting forward visibility, should have stopped, and went vertical. You're not going to crash into anything if you are going straight up. He could have then gotten his bearings, or went back the way he came.
dsvitak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 03:01 PM   #36
pilight
All Star Starter
 
pilight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Where the Action is
Posts: 1,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizon View Post
Trying to think of the last shocking-too-early big name athlete death.
Dale Earnhardt?
pilight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 03:04 PM   #37
neugey
All Star Reserve
 
neugey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 805
Blog Entries: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizon View Post
Man. Brutal. Feel for everyone involved. I thought the Mamba would outlive me.

This was so wide reaching that even kids on the 2nd grade playground were talking about it this morning. I walked past 3 separate conversations about it.

Trying to think of the last shocking-too-early big name athlete death. Arthur Ashe we all saw coming. Has to be Clemente?

I've been a Lakers fan since the Showtime days. Followed closely during the transitional years with Del Harris, Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones. The range of emotions and memories are substantial, because you remember Kobe being so impetuous and precocious those first few years. Then you have Phil Jackson, Robert Horry and Rick Fox joining and providing the added edge Kobe and Shaq needed to realize their potential. Then the Colorado incident and the crucible Kobe went through to slowly but surely redeem himself, keep his marriage intact and gradually change the minds of people who had labeled him as a monster and a predator. Seeing Kobe and Phil patch things up and win it all again after that rough stretch meant a great deal lot to me. Then his career ended with the injuries piling on and team failures, but Kobe got the last word and capped it off with a transcendent final game. And now Kobe had his own interests, enjoying his daughters' basketball and also being an intelligent ambassador of the game.


The baseball parallel I might draw as a fan would be Kirby Puckett, who became so beloved by that fan base and you have those championship memories. Kirby's passing away was gradual and very different, but by fans he was beloved in a similar way.


I feel bad for Kobe's family first and foremost, but another person I have in my mind is Rob Pelinka, the Lakers current GM who was also Kobe's best friend and agent for most of his career. Has to be very difficult for him right now.
__________________
Online OOTP League Play:

PBA - Cincinnati Reds
MLM - Baltimore Orioles
neugey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 03:30 PM   #38
Westheim
Hall Of Famer
 
Westheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 11,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizon View Post
Trying to think of the last shocking-too-early big name athlete death.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilight View Post
Dale Earnhardt?
Dale Earnhardt's death was so big, it was half a page in the sports section of the daily newspaper HERE in Neck-of-the-Woods, Germany on Monday morning, and at that time they had the NBA scores at best, a hangover from Detlef Schrempf's Supersonics days, and I think this was also before the Nowitzki thing really took off. Y'see, Germans are weird. Nothing is worth watching or following if there isn't a German winning the living **** out of it.

But Dale Earnhardt had half a page. Huge picture of the black #3 and Schrader's #36 crumpled up in the wall. To this day I remember the headline. Translated, it was "Death came seconds from the finish".

I'm shivering again.
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here!
1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055
1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.
Westheim is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 03:39 PM   #39
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
Stories like this are why, although I grouse occasionally about the inequity of wealth and how immense amounts of money are attracted to and hoarded by a handful of individuals, I am never actually envious of those people.

Once you have accumulated enough to be comfortable, money surely does not buy any more happiness. Excessive amounts are wasted (unless you consider heirs and charities) and may even lead to one's demise one way or the other. Such as leasing a "limousine-like" helicopter but trusting the wrong pilot or mechanic.

He was a great ballplayer, a good man, and a doting father, from what I have seen in media, so I mourn him and especially his daughter (not to slight the other folks on that chopper, who barely get mentioned). But I never did envy Kobe Bryant.
__________________

- Bru



Last edited by Déjà Bru; 01-27-2020 at 03:44 PM.
Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2020, 03:46 PM   #40
ukhotstove
Hall Of Famer
 
ukhotstove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: North of England Gods Country
Posts: 7,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
Stories like this are why, although I grouse occasionally about the inequity of wealth and how immense amounts of money are attracted to and horded by a handful of individuals, I am never actually envious of those people.

Once you have accumulated enough to be comfortable, money surely does not buy any more happiness. Excessive amounts are wasted (unless you consider heirs and charities) and may even lead to one's demise one way or the other. Such as leasing a "limousine-like" helicopter but trusting the wrong pilot or mechanic.

He was a great ballplayer, a good man, and a doting father, from what I have seen in media, so I mourn him and especially his daughter (not to slight the other folks on that chopper, who barely get mentioned) and family. But I never did envy Kobe Bryant.
I was thinking last night that 1,000s upon 1,000s of people whilst he was playing and even after would have wanted to be in Kobe's shoes, not many if any would have wanted to be in them yesterday.

I've been in an chopper about a dozen times and if I had all the money in the world I'd never step foot in one again and that was before yesterday.
ukhotstove is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:26 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments