Packy Paul - Alberta Heavyweight

Cap · 02-17-2008, 09:05 AM

Here's my version of 1930s heavyweight Packy Paul from Richdale, Alberta. Started his pro career in Britain then returned home and fought mostly in the Pacific Northwest. Career may have been cut short because of military service. Not certain. I've rated him a 4, seeing him as a Gord Racette type. Picture I have is very poor one taken from an old newspaper.

Cap

johnpahl · 04-05-2008, 02:51 PM

Hi Cap,

I hope that's 4 out of five!

His record was won 28 (KO 21) + lost 5 (KO 1) + drawn 6 = 39.

You can see his record here:

Packy Paul

He only fought five more times and sporadically after leaving England.

Grampaw was rated #12 in the world as a pro heavyweight in 1939 by Ring Magazine. His brother Dan was rated #11.

Always happy to find his name on the internet though.

Thanks,

John

Cap · 04-07-2008, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnpahl

Hi Cap,

I hope that's 4 out of five!

His record was won 28 (KO 21) + lost 5 (KO 1) + drawn 6 = 39.

You can see his record here:

Packy Paul

He only fought five more times and sporadically after leaving England.

Grampaw was rated #12 in the world as a pro heavyweight in 1939 by Ring Magazine. His brother Dan was rated #11.

Always happy to find his name on the internet though.

Thanks,

John

Welcome to our forum!

John, I'm the one chiefly responsible for fleshing out his record on Boxrec.com. I dug up some unrecorded fights and entered others found by fellow historian Miles Templeton.

When I say I rate him a 4, that's with Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali rated 15. I have little to go on except for fight reports in old newspapers, but he strikes me as good enough to easily be a Canadian or Commonwealth cruiserweight champion if he were fighting today. Kinda like Dale Brown. He didn't really get to fight a world ranked heavyweight until Wenstob (top ten in 1938) in 1941. I don't have access to papers from this period, so I don't know if he entered the military or just couldn't get any matches until 1946 (not certain of the '42 bout).

Do you have a good photograph of him and/or his brother Danny in their prime?

Cap

mh2365 · 04-07-2008, 06:55 PM

The only ratings I have of people Paul fought are

Eddie Wenstob who I have as a 3 - Paul split with him

Jack Casey who I have as a 6 - Paul beat Casey but it was Casey's second to last fight and Casey lost 11 out of his last 13 against very poor competition.

Without looking at the rating and only judging the overall, I'd say a 4 is pretty fair.

johnpahl · 04-08-2008, 07:09 PM

Hi guys,

All opinions and ratings in the big picture are appreciated and taken.

However, he's my Grampaw and he'll always be a 15 to me.

Thanks,

John

Cap · 04-09-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnpahl

Hi guys,

All opinions and ratings in the big picture are appreciated and taken.

However, he's my Grampaw and he'll always be a 15 to me.

Thanks,

John

Understandable. These ratings only apply to how a particular fighter is seen in a computer boxing simulation. As more information becomes available, they are reassessed.

Cap

Cap · 04-17-2008, 07:58 AM

I've exchanged emails with Packy Paul's grandson and he's sent me scans of several really interesting historical items, including Packy's British boxing license and a handbill from a card he was on. Great stuff. Amazing the folks you meet here.

Cap

mh2365 · 04-17-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnpahl

Hi guys,

All opinions and ratings in the big picture are appreciated and taken.

However, he's my Grampaw and he'll always be a 15 to me.

Thanks,

John

Great quote!!! At one time there were comments on a lot of the fighters in the database but the DB Team for 2.5 took all of those out because many were unflattering ... this is exactly why. Please stick around the board.

Also as a side note ... while ratings in TBCB go to 15 ... I'd say a fighter rated 4 is an average to above average fighter for the most part. Just like RL there are a lot more 1's and 0's than there are 10's and 12's.

Cap · 04-17-2008, 06:42 PM

Yeah. Since I've communicated with John Pahl, I've been taking a closer look at Packy and his brother and the tough times they had. A few anomalies aside, even at the best of times, a fighter couldn't make a good living fighting only in Canada. During the Great Depression it was literally a hand-to-mouth existence for all but the best. Not everyone could stand the grind.

No surprise that the "Punching Paul Brothers" sailed to England, just as Larry Gains and Al Delaney had done. It seemed a good place to learn their chosen trade, and boxing was big in the UK, so there'd be plenty of paydays, sometimes too many. No time for bones to mend and skin to heal.

How good were the Paul brothers? It's difficult to say without actually seeing them in action. During their brief careers, I believe Packy may have been the more talented of the two, but he was never really tested at his best until the 1941 fight with previously world-ranked Eddie Wenstob. I'm looking for details of that fight, but Packy was definitely the underdog against the guy many locals still saw as the Pride of Alberta. At 25 years old, Packy was still learning his craft. Family problems side-tracked his career (see his bio in Boxrec).

If I were to rank Packy during this period amongst Canadian heavyweights then competing, I think only Al Delaney and Tiger Warrington were better. Unfortunately, he never got a chance to fight them.

Cap

johnpahl · 05-05-2008, 07:40 PM

Thanks for the comments guys (and to Cap for the interest).

Further to the above about the better of the two, I've been speaking to my father about Packy and Dan some more lately. Dan never liked boxing but it was a way to make some decent money (and yes, more so in England). Apparently he only fought as hard as the other guy would. Grampaw on the other hand was pretty vicious and according to Dad (who Packy coached to an amateur record of 139-6 with Canadian and US titles) he was never knocked down by anyone he didn't knock down after.

Thanks again,

John

Cap · 05-07-2008, 11:46 AM

Hi, John. Did you ever come across the details of Packy's two fights with Eddie Wenstob?

Cap

04-17-2008, 07:58 AM	#7
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,776 Blog Entries: 4	I've exchanged emails with Packy Paul's grandson and he's sent me scans of several really interesting historical items, including Packy's British boxing license and a handbill from a card he was on. Great stuff. Amazing the folks you meet here. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

04-17-2008, 06:42 PM	#9
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,776 Blog Entries: 4	Yeah. Since I've communicated with John Pahl, I've been taking a closer look at Packy and his brother and the tough times they had. A few anomalies aside, even at the best of times, a fighter couldn't make a good living fighting only in Canada. During the Great Depression it was literally a hand-to-mouth existence for all but the best. Not everyone could stand the grind. No surprise that the "Punching Paul Brothers" sailed to England, just as Larry Gains and Al Delaney had done. It seemed a good place to learn their chosen trade, and boxing was big in the UK, so there'd be plenty of paydays, sometimes too many. No time for bones to mend and skin to heal. How good were the Paul brothers? It's difficult to say without actually seeing them in action. During their brief careers, I believe Packy may have been the more talented of the two, but he was never really tested at his best until the 1941 fight with previously world-ranked Eddie Wenstob. I'm looking for details of that fight, but Packy was definitely the underdog against the guy many locals still saw as the Pride of Alberta. At 25 years old, Packy was still learning his craft. Family problems side-tracked his career (see his bio in Boxrec). If I were to rank Packy during this period amongst Canadian heavyweights then competing, I think only Al Delaney and Tiger Warrington were better. Unfortunately, he never got a chance to fight them. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap; 04-18-2008 at 05:48 PM.

04-05-2008, 02:51 PM	#2
johnpahl Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 3	Hi Cap, I hope that's 4 out of five! His record was won 28 (KO 21) + lost 5 (KO 1) + drawn 6 = 39. You can see his record here: Packy Paul He only fought five more times and sporadically after leaving England. Grampaw was rated #12 in the world as a pro heavyweight in 1939 by Ring Magazine. His brother Dan was rated #11. Always happy to find his name on the internet though. Thanks, John

04-07-2008, 06:55 PM	#4
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,941 Infractions: 0/2 (101)	The only ratings I have of people Paul fought are Eddie Wenstob who I have as a 3 - Paul split with him Jack Casey who I have as a 6 - Paul beat Casey but it was Casey's second to last fight and Casey lost 11 out of his last 13 against very poor competition. Without looking at the rating and only judging the overall, I'd say a 4 is pretty fair.

04-08-2008, 07:09 PM	#5
johnpahl Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 3	Hi guys, All opinions and ratings in the big picture are appreciated and taken. However, he's my Grampaw and he'll always be a 15 to me. Thanks, John

05-05-2008, 07:40 PM	#10
johnpahl Bat Boy Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Calgary, AB Posts: 3	Thanks for the comments guys (and to Cap for the interest). Further to the above about the better of the two, I've been speaking to my father about Packy and Dan some more lately. Dan never liked boxing but it was a way to make some decent money (and yes, more so in England). Apparently he only fought as hard as the other guy would. Grampaw on the other hand was pretty vicious and according to Dad (who Packy coached to an amateur record of 139-6 with Canadian and US titles) he was never knocked down by anyone he didn't knock down after. Thanks again, John

05-07-2008, 11:46 AM	#11
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 7,776 Blog Entries: 4	Hi, John. Did you ever come across the details of Packy's two fights with Eddie Wenstob? Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."