Have you ever seen a runner thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double? - Page 2

NoOne · 10-08-2019, 10:03 PM

how's the rabbit hole going?

CBeisbol · 10-25-2019, 12:40 AM

Just played out an entire spring training

Not one runner was thrown out at second.
Home and third, yes
Never at second

This seems...not accurate

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

Using a script to scan OOTP game logs (and whatever settings we have here), in about 24 games of our 32-team online league we've had the following runners thrown out trying to advance to:

2B: 9
3B: 55
Home: 148

Pendragon · 10-25-2019, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dward1

or trying to score on a wild pitch or passed ball? they get thrown out all the time trying to score from 2nd with 2 outs but I've never seen these two scenarios

I have seen running get thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double (three times see you made this post), but it is very rare.

I have never seen a runner thrown out trying to score on a wild pitch or passed ball. They always score.

RchW · 10-25-2019, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendragon

I have seen running get thrown out trying to stretch a single into a double (three times see you made this post), but it is very rare.

I have never seen a runner thrown out trying to score on a wild pitch or passed ball. They always score.

If a runner is thrown out advancing there is no WP or PB to count.

BirdWatcher · 10-25-2019, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

If a runner is thrown out advancing there is no WP or PB to count.

Exactly! This.

If I'm not mistaken (and I often am

), the result comes first and then the visualization of the result. So a pitch that gets away from the catcher a bit, for whatever reason, but doesn't advance any runners, isn't going to show up in the visualization of the game.
Now, are the instances where a runner is out trying to advance on what might have been ruled a wild pitch or passed ball had the runner been safe built into the game? I'm not sure.

Pendragon · 10-25-2019, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

If a runner is thrown out advancing there is no WP or PB to count.

Yes, we are seeing the result of a wild pitch or passed ball that the system has already "rolled" per se, not a dynamic play in progress.

OOTP apparently does not have animation code in place to show someone being thrown out attempting to advance on a wayward pitch, only an animation for when the play results in runners advancing.

I think this is fine as is in the overall context of what the game is portraying.

CBeisbol · 10-25-2019, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Yes, we are seeing the result of a wild pitch or passed ball that the system has already "rolled" per se, not a dynamic play in progress.

OOTP apparently does not have animation code in place to show someone being thrown out attempting to advance on a wayward pitch, only an animation for when the play results in runners advancing.

I think this is fine as is in the overall context of what the game is portraying.

There would still be a lot of unrepresented outs on the bases then, no?

RonCo · 10-25-2019, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Just played out an entire spring training

Not one runner was thrown out at second.
Home and third, yes
Never at second

This seems...not accurate

I can only report what I can report. Per a script I run on game logs, in a 32 team league, through June 1 (about 55-57 games per team?), I get:

Runners thrown out by outfielders at:

2B: 19
3B: 139
HR: 294

CBeisbol · 10-25-2019, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

I can only report what I can report. Per a script I run on game logs, in a 32 team league, through June 1 (about 55-57 games per team?), I get:

Runners thrown out by outfielders at:

2B: 19
3B: 139
HR: 294

To be clear, I wasn't saying that your numbers weren't accurate.

I was saying that OOTP's numbers don't seem accurate.

A runner thrown out at 2nd every 47 games?

Maybe I'll have a chance to check. Or someone will beat me to it

Eugene Church · 10-25-2019, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

I can only report what I can report. Per a script I run on game logs, in a 32 team league, through June 1 (about 55-57 games per team?), I get:

Runners thrown out by outfielders at:

2B: 19
3B: 139
HR: 294

Thanks for the facts, RonCo.

I am only guestimating… no facts... I play out the last 3-4 innings of my games so I can control relief pitchers, pinchhitters and defensive subs... and I don't remember having never seen a runner thrown out at second trying to stretch a single... but it's a small sample of games.
I am really watching for it to happen now.

Though an inside-the-park homer is very rare... I will be watching to see if anyone ever gets thrown out at home stretching a triple.

I often see players trying to stretch a double to a triple thrown out at third... I think this is fairly accurate... an outfielder has more time to throw to third than second base and will throw out more runners.

BIG17EASY · 10-25-2019, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

There would still be a lot of unrepresented outs on the bases then, no?

No, when this happens, it's recorded as a caught stealing. So every time you see a CS in a box score, there's a chance it could be a ball in the dirt that the runner tried to advance on. As others have stated, the animation for such a play doesn't exist in OOTP (and I don't believe PbP text does, either), so there's really no way to distinguish this from a regular caught stealing even if you're playing out the game.

RonCo · 10-25-2019, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

Thanks for the facts, RonCo.

I am only guestimating… no facts... I play out the last 3-4 innings of my games so I can control relief pitchers, pinchhitters and defensive subs... and I don't remember having never seen a runner thrown out at second trying to stretch a single... but it's a small sample of games.
I am really watching for it to happen now.

Though an inside-the-park homer is very rare... I will be watching to see if anyone ever gets thrown out at home stretching a triple.

I often see players trying to stretch a double to a triple thrown out at third... I think this is fairly accurate... an outfielder has more time to throw to third than second base and will throw out more runners.

I can say that none of the guys thrown out at home were on plays where a triple was credited, so to date, at least, none have been thrown out on an attempted inside the park homer.

RonCo · 10-25-2019, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

To be clear, I wasn't saying that your numbers weren't accurate.

I was saying that OOTP's numbers don't seem accurate.

A runner thrown out at 2nd every 47 games?

Maybe I'll have a chance to check. Or someone will beat me to it

Given the league size, across the league that would be one guy thrown out stretching a single about every three days. That doesn't seem too horrible, but I admit I don't know. My initial gut reaction is that there might be too many being tossed out at the other bases...but again, I don't know.

Also, this is an online league, and I don't know what kind of base-running aggressiveness settings people are using for their teams...nor do I know how often runners are succeeding...or which runners succeed vs. not-succeed.

CBeisbol · 10-25-2019, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonCo

I can only report what I can report. Per a script I run on game logs, in a 32 team league, through June 1 (about 55-57 games per team?), I get:

Runners thrown out by outfielders at:

2B: 19
3B: 139
HR: 294

In 2019, there were
459 outs made at 2B
344 outs made at 3B
454 outs made at home
*https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...-batting.shtml

per B-R, outs made on the bases "include out advancing on a fly ball, out attempting to reach another base on a hit, doubled off on a line drive, or out attempting to advance on a wild pitch or ground ball. Does not include pickoffs, caught stealing or force plays"

RonCo · 10-25-2019, 04:11 PM

Outstanding. So both thoughts are right--too few at 2B, too many at 3B and home ... at least in this league.

Eugene Church · 10-25-2019, 06:00 PM

In my Islandian Pro Alliance playoff game, I just had a runner throw out at second trying to stretch a single... so it does happen... it could be I just might not pay attention to it... it's just another out.

I agree with RonCo… it should happen more than at third base.

Dave Hansen · 10-26-2019, 08:54 AM

Saw a runner thrown out trying to go to second just yesterday in my league.

CBeisbol · 11-03-2019, 08:52 PM

Well, it happened

I had a runner thrown out trying to get a double

After playing every spring training game and every game of the season, in finally happened in the 60th game,

Based on this, and the data provided earlier, this doesn't seem nearly frequent enough

nickwatic · 11-05-2019, 07:27 PM

Actually happened to me today. I was down 4-3 in the 9th and my guy hit a single and decided now was the time to go for 2nd base in a game that we could afford no mistakes

dward1 · 11-06-2019, 06:15 AM

this is clearly blatantly off. there is a lot of coding clean-up they can do with the in-game engine. a total re-write is probably needed soon as it doesn't quite feel "real" enough, often feels like it's just a spreadsheet with a bit of sloppy if,then stuff (too many balks with runner on third for example, too many wild pitches scoring runs and no one ever out at home on those, along with the poor distribution of runners out at bases we are talking here, the confusing tag up system, way too often runners thrown out at home with 2 outs on a single, etc).

11-05-2019, 07:27 PM	#39
nickwatic Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 195 Blog Entries: 1	Actually happened to me today. I was down 4-3 in the 9th and my guy hit a single and decided now was the time to go for 2nd base in a game that we could afford no mistakes __________________

10-08-2019, 10:03 PM	#21
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	how's the rabbit hole going?

10-25-2019, 04:11 PM	#35
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 9,499	Outstanding. So both thoughts are right--too few at 2B, too many at 3B and home ... at least in this league.

10-25-2019, 06:00 PM	#36
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 35,088 Blog Entries: 1	In my Islandian Pro Alliance playoff game, I just had a runner throw out at second trying to stretch a single... so it does happen... it could be I just might not pay attention to it... it's just another out. I agree with RonCo… it should happen more than at third base.

10-26-2019, 08:54 AM	#37
Dave Hansen Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 335	Saw a runner thrown out trying to go to second just yesterday in my league.

11-03-2019, 08:52 PM	#38
CBeisbol Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Ban land in 3...2... Posts: 2,943	Well, it happened I had a runner thrown out trying to get a double After playing every spring training game and every game of the season, in finally happened in the 60th game, Based on this, and the data provided earlier, this doesn't seem nearly frequent enough

11-06-2019, 06:15 AM	#40
dward1 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 929	this is clearly blatantly off. there is a lot of coding clean-up they can do with the in-game engine. a total re-write is probably needed soon as it doesn't quite feel "real" enough, often feels like it's just a spreadsheet with a bit of sloppy if,then stuff (too many balks with runner on third for example, too many wild pitches scoring runs and no one ever out at home on those, along with the poor distribution of runners out at bases we are talking here, the confusing tag up system, way too often runners thrown out at home with 2 outs on a single, etc).