Bullpen Usage & Best Practices

[Mike Lowe]

I seem to get myself a bit confused as to how best to setup my bullpen for leagues where I'm not managing. Below is a screenshot from our daily SSG league and what I'm planning to use, but I wanted to discuss some assumptions to see whether I have my bullpen setup properly.



The most important guys I want to discuss are actually at the bottom, so if you read any of these, please check our my stopper/setup combo guys.

Closer - Trevor Gott
For my closer, I don't like to actually use my best RP here as getting three outs with no one on base is obviously easier than working out of a jam. Therefore, Gott who is probably our 2nd or 3rd best reliever, gets the closer gig based on him having some success in the role previously at various levels. He's slotted, and I see no issue with his placement/labels.

Lefty Specialist Andrew Miller
Fairly self-explanatory role, but for Andrew Miller--he's not the MLB Andrew Miller we're accustomed to--I'd love a secondary position that instructs "absolutely don't let him pitch to the opposite hand!" I don't mind if he pitches in high-leverage spots, but only against lefties.I actually notice that I can select "lefty specialist" as his secondary role as well. Is that going to do anything? Perhaps that's best removed if it serves no function.

Lefty Specialist Luis Avilan
Similar to Andrew Miller above, but I wouldn't freak out if he came in and worked an inning where it was L/R/L or something like that. I'd rather he just face the righty in the middle. However, I'm not sure how to set that properly for just Avilan and not Miller as team strategies would apply to both guys. Should I switch Avilan's primary and secondary roles?

While there is a personal strategy for pitcher hook, there is not one for leniency on lefty/righty matchups.

Stopper/Setup Mike Morin and Pedro Baez
These are my cream-of-the-crop relievers, and I want them to pitch in the most important times of the game, whether we're winning, tied, or losing. I want them to be used in high-leverage, and I don't want them getting yanked for perhaps a slightly better lefty on lefty matchup. If they are rested, and the game is on the line, I want them in. Period.

So, will my current combo of Stopper/Setup get the job done? Am I making a mistake ignoring the "high leverage" option as perhaps this is a catch all?

Also, I don't like having to designate which inning these guys may be used, and same for when I have a lefty/righty combo as setup--it's far less dependent on the inning, and more important to have the better pitcher pitching in the tougher of the two innings. So for instance, Baez is the lesser of the two, so I'd want him to NOT come in for the 7th inning, if it were the middle of the order coming up; I'd want Morin in that situation, and then save Baez for the bottom of the order in the 8th.

Long Reliver/Emergency Start/Middle Relief
The remaining two guys--Rucinski and Bedrosian--I think are fine as is. I don't want Rucinski really pitching unless our starter got shelled and the game is likely out of hand. Bedrosian I'm fine with pitching in any situation, more or less, but he's not in the same category currently as Baez and Morin.

Thanks for reading!

[NoOne]

alot of how you use your pen depends on your rotation.

how many innings do you need each year? experience will let you know that figure fairly precisely, sans injuries. when those occur, you shift gears to adjust to the new context, simple.

when i have a staff that is going to eat up ~1000innings, the top three relievers will be 70-80+ for sure -- there's not much left outside of long releif innings which tend to be while behind by too many runs to worry too much about that portion of the innings in great detail. lets say you get ~80-100ip out of a LR primary role.

so, ~310-340ip out of ~1450 on the top 3guys and mop up duty. that's only leaving ~100-150 for the middle portion of your pen. most of that can be eaten up by 1 good reliever and he will lbe used more often in tigher situations than the "normal" or "use less often" usage below him.

i try to optimize for a playoff run, and not worry about what happens if i am going to miss it due to catastrophic and numerous injuries. there's not hing you can do if you have 2-4 major injuries each of your top pitchers or fielders. no depth can make up for that, unless they weren't very good starters/position players to begind with.

so, with that staff i'd stick with 2 setup guys. but if you ever have 5 guys that will eat up >1000ip, dump it down to 1, then your awesom su2 guy cna be your MR-Use more often guy.

basically, if your setup men are only getting ~40-50ip and your top MR is getting more, this is the far better method. now, the su1 guy will get 70-80 and the former su2 guy, now a mr1 guy,is going to get at least that much.

I like my closer being the best arm, but i also use 8th+. this should use him in jams while also protecting 1 run leads.

on average it's a bit higher than ~25% chance a run is scored in any inning by a team. that's a big deal in a 1-run game even with no one on base. the better teams have an increased %,obviously -- which is what you should care about in this instance -- playoff competition average - a better subset of the total data.

It appears you prescribe teh same things? if that MR guy is noticeably better than the rest, i'd make sure it's "use more", although i think that's going to occur regardless due to the fact the 2nd mr guy is a secondary role.

you may want 2 witha secondary role as MR. you can use specialist as the secondary role -- again just one more way to differntiate and dictate to the AI who should be used first.

if you have 2 lefties and one is better, then i'd even leave them both as MR-use less and only give the secondary role of lefty spec to the better one. the other lefty will still be used by the manager when his strategey dictats use of a lefty and the main guy is tired. the ai wil default to a common sense choice based on something rudimentary like "overall" and handedness when the depth chart doesn't provide an answer relative to context of fatigue.

i wouldn't change much if oyu like the way that type of setup has worked for your in the past. are the right guys getting optimal amount of innings? then it's great. if oyu see lesser guys getting too much and the better guys not being used every other day type usage, i'd change it until you get that type of usage. i want 70-80+ ip out of my better RP.

don't care how they get them if innings are scarce, either. when you have 5 sp that go 200+ each, it starts to get tough to do that. you definitely need 1su not 2 etc. you'll get more out of you pen if they both get ~70ip instead of 50ip each sahring a role that doesn't provide enough innings for 2. i even set the 1 SU as 6th or later. i will use the mr-use more as a high lev secondary OR a setup secondary role. whichever i think will get them more innings relative to current staff.

i don't differentiate between SU inning (6,7,8) unless one is way better but ratings/ai picks the other as "better'. they both go to 6th or later. (assume stopper is at least similar?). if the ai thinks the 'other guy' is better, i'll set him to 1 inning later -- ie reverse order of talent due to how su are used by the ai when both are 'qualified' by their inning of use (you but 7/8 both are qualified for 8th inning work, it's not 7th only and 8th only, it's "7th or later").

[Mike Lowe]

Thanks for the reply. I think I understood most of it; some typos confused me a bit was all.

How do you think this looks now?

[Mike Lowe]

Better yet, this should also align nicely with team strategies and not over-confuse anything within the game, hopefully.

[Mike Lowe]

Now I'm just wondering if I just drop the "lefty specialist" altogether for both lefties, and let the AI strategy handle it. Again, the challenge is that I don't want Miller left in against righties, but am ok with Avilan doing so.

[NoOne]

i'd differentiate the lefties if you think one is better than the other for sure... always maximize innings of the better player through the depth chart. if they are equivalent current ability, than i'd maximize the innings of the guy you will keep longer or care more about.

i didn't mean to sway you from using a stopper either.. i just don't know the dynamics of that role and how it differes from setup beyond the basic definition given of each in forums or manual (ie actual useage in game)... so, do as you want for those and use experience to make similar logical conclusions about what is best.

i think with a staff of mostly 60-65 stamina (out of 100? if out of 80, less so what i am about to say) you likely need 2 setup men/stoppers.. but i could be wrong. if you had the staff setup with 2 last year, you can look at how many innings those roles got and see if it needs 1 player or 2 or 1.5 with a secondary role is enough etc etc.

maximizing innings of your best relievers is relative to a bunch of other factors, so it's difficult to say wihtout that knowledge. use recent history of usage to help you make a specific decision relative to your situation.

either of those last 2 pics would be similar to what i suggest... then make sure the right pitchers get teh most useage.

or if overused due to a weak SP rotation, used in the right situations. in that context you probably do few things exactly the opposite of what i just suggested.. now, it's less about maximizing use and more about not using too much so that they are available in higher leverage situations to maximize wins.

[Mike Lowe]

We use the 20-80 scale. The colors are always accurate, regardless of the ratings scale being used.

[timmermac]

I am extremely old-school when it comes to pitching. For me, the bullpen exists if the starter gets into trouble. I prefer my starters to work a minimum of 7 innings every night, more if we have a big lead or there's a shutout going. I always seem to get into trouble when I go Captain Hook on my starters.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

I seem to get myself a bit confused as to how best to setup my bullpen for leagues where I'm not managing. Below is a screenshot from our daily SSG league and what I'm planning to use, but I wanted to discuss some assumptions to see whether I have my bullpen setup properly.

Attachment 545994

The most important guys I want to discuss are actually at the bottom, so if you read any of these, please check our my stopper/setup combo guys.

Closer - Trevor Gott
For my closer, I don't like to actually use my best RP here as getting three outs with no one on base is obviously easier than working out of a jam. Therefore, Gott who is probably our 2nd or 3rd best reliever, gets the closer gig based on him having some success in the role previously at various levels. He's slotted, and I see no issue with his placement/labels.

Lefty Specialist Andrew Miller
Fairly self-explanatory role, but for Andrew Miller--he's not the MLB Andrew Miller we're accustomed to--I'd love a secondary position that instructs "absolutely don't let him pitch to the opposite hand!" I don't mind if he pitches in high-leverage spots, but only against lefties.I actually notice that I can select "lefty specialist" as his secondary role as well. Is that going to do anything? Perhaps that's best removed if it serves no function.

Lefty Specialist Luis Avilan
Similar to Andrew Miller above, but I wouldn't freak out if he came in and worked an inning where it was L/R/L or something like that. I'd rather he just face the righty in the middle. However, I'm not sure how to set that properly for just Avilan and not Miller as team strategies would apply to both guys. Should I switch Avilan's primary and secondary roles?

While there is a personal strategy for pitcher hook, there is not one for leniency on lefty/righty matchups.

Stopper/Setup Mike Morin and Pedro Baez
These are my cream-of-the-crop relievers, and I want them to pitch in the most important times of the game, whether we're winning, tied, or losing. I want them to be used in high-leverage, and I don't want them getting yanked for perhaps a slightly better lefty on lefty matchup. If they are rested, and the game is on the line, I want them in. Period.

So, will my current combo of Stopper/Setup get the job done? Am I making a mistake ignoring the "high leverage" option as perhaps this is a catch all?

Also, I don't like having to designate which inning these guys may be used, and same for when I have a lefty/righty combo as setup--it's far less dependent on the inning, and more important to have the better pitcher pitching in the tougher of the two innings. So for instance, Baez is the lesser of the two, so I'd want him to NOT come in for the 7th inning, if it were the middle of the order coming up; I'd want Morin in that situation, and then save Baez for the bottom of the order in the 8th.

Long Reliver/Emergency Start/Middle Relief
The remaining two guys--Rucinski and Bedrosian--I think are fine as is. I don't want Rucinski really pitching unless our starter got shelled and the game is likely out of hand. Bedrosian I'm fine with pitching in any situation, more or less, but he's not in the same category currently as Baez and Morin.

Thanks for reading!

What are your rating systems? In my game all relivers that are really good are only rated at the highest 45

[Mike Lowe]

Originally Posted by Padreman

What are your rating systems? In my game all relivers that are really good are only rated at the highest 45

We use 20-80 scale, hide overalls and stars, and do not use relative ratings. That last one explains the difference.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[Timofmars]

Maybe make Andrew Miller the left specialist as primary role, middle reliever as secondary. Either way, he probably would get used as middle reliever only if everyone else is tired (though maybe he gets used a bit if he hasn't been used in a while?). But with being the only lefty specialist primary would maybe make him get used more often in that situation, helping the other lefty to be fresher. That may make him less likely to be "forced" into the ML role due to being the only rested one, and then having to face righties.

You can also set Miller's strategy to be pulled very early, so the AI may be more likely to pull him out when he faces a righty. You can check his L/R split stats after some games to see if it's working (see if he is facing only lefties), or check game logs to see if he was pulled when a righty came up.

Mike Morin might not have many opportunities to be used in high leverage situations since he will be getting used probably any time he's rested, but the high leverage setting won't hurt. Assuming that the AI tries to select the best rated player available when all else is equal, you could maybe set a few more guys to high leverage just to have the chance to be used in those situations when not tired, to replace a weaker pitcher that may be pitching at that time. I think if no rested pitcher is set to high leverage and rested, the AI will just stick with the current pitcher.

[Mike Lowe]

Thanks, Tim! Now I'm wondering whether I just drop the setup role entirely. If Morin is tired, and we're losing in the 7th or 8th by 1 run, I don't think the game would use Baez, would it?

I think the game uses setup role only if you're winning? I'd prefer him to be used "7th or 8th in any close game."

[Mike Lowe]

Following up on this, I had to send my "use less often" MR who also has long relief as his secondary role down to AAA because he had 3x the number of innings as any other RP thus far in the season (13 games up to the real-life schedule as of today), and actually has more IP than 3 of my starters.

I have no idea how to actually get the game to "use (him) less often." I've sent him down for another MR who is actually rated better, even though he isn't ideal as a long reliever. It's early in the season, so I'm aware that SPs don't go as long as they typically would, but I'm still scratching my head as to why the bullpen is being used as it is.

Our Pythagorean record is 7-6, and we've played mostly close games with a 1-2 record in 1-run games thus far.

I'll try and post a screen shot later on.

[drowssap]

Originally Posted by timmermac

I am extremely old-school when it comes to pitching. For me, the bullpen exists if the starter gets into trouble. I prefer my starters to work a minimum of 7 innings every night, more if we have a big lead or there's a shutout going. I always seem to get into trouble when I go Captain Hook on my starters.

I tried this strategy and I got 4 of my 5 starters on the DL for a significant amount of time. My 5th starter managed a team leading 180 innings.

I'm WAY more careful now.

[Timofmars]

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Following up on this, I had to send my "use less often" MR who also has long relief as his secondary role down to AAA because he had 3x the number of innings as any other RP thus far in the season (13 games up to the real-life schedule as of today), and actually has more IP than 3 of my starters.

I have no idea how to actually get the game to "use (him) less often." I've sent him down for another MR who is actually rated better, even though he isn't ideal as a long reliever. It's early in the season, so I'm aware that SPs don't go as long as they typically would, but I'm still scratching my head as to why the bullpen is being used as it is.

My guess would be that he is coming in because of the long reliever role, not the MR role. Do you have another player set to long reliever as primary? If you don't, then this long reliever secondary guy would be the 1st on the list to be used when a long reliever is needed. If you do have a long reliever, then how much has he been getting used. Any time he is tired, the guy with the LR secondary would get used instead.