OOTP HOF voting is a bit odd

BaseballMan · 02-17-2019, 05:48 PM

I got to 1936 and turned on my hall of fame voting.
Then i noticed Christy Mathewson wasn't even on the ballot in 1937.
So i ran some tests from my backups and found he did appear but not elected.
My question is why. I even turned off the 5 year waiting period and set
years on ballot to unlimited.
Why would a player that has won numerous awards, is the leader in wins and WAR get 9.1 votes while Dazzy Vance gets the most ballots for a pitcher.
This makes no sense.
Is it better to just manually induct players?

r0nster · 02-17-2019, 07:21 PM

I usually let them be voted on for 20 years then if they don't get in then if I think they should be in then elect them by veteran's commission

BaseballMan · 02-17-2019, 08:05 PM

What i am doing is to try and follow the real elections as far as players.I will use the veteran's or era committee voting to add players when the game (BBWAA) voting doesnt vote in enough players that year. If it votes in more than there were then i will not select a player unit it is required..

I started my league in 1871 and up to 1936.
So for the veteran's vote i start with the war leaders for retired players at the end of 1885.
In 1937 i use 1886, in 1938 i use 1887 and so on.
I could just make a list of the but i dont know how many players i need to put in the hall till the game finishes its vote. I could start the veteran's vote in 1900 by that might leave out the players in the early years.
I chose to not use a waiting period for the first BBWAA vote but use it from the next year on.
For the first year of the veteran's vote i set years of service at 5 and then i will go to ten years in my next selection.
Using this method My first 2 selections were Al Spalding and George Wright.
George Wrights stats would never get him elected by the game but he was one of the best players of his era.
Spalding played less than 10 years but was the single season leader in wins and won 216 games. Never won less than 20 games in a season.
He dominated pitching like Koufax did. So this allowed me to put him in the hall.

actionjackson · 02-17-2019, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I got to 1936 and turned on my hall of fame voting.
Then i noticed Christy Mathews on wasn't even on the ballot in 1937.
So i ran some tests from my backups and found he did appear but not elected.
My question is why. I even turned off the 5 year waiting period and set
years on ballot to unlimited.
Why would a player that has won numerous awards, is the leader in wins and WAR get 9.1 votes while Dazzy Vance gets the most ballots for a pitcher.
This makes no sense.
Is it better to just manually induct players?

Ugh. Just ugh.

BaseballMan · 02-17-2019, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

Ugh. Just ugh.

I can understand if he didn't get the highest pctg of votes but 9.1?
There is no way his stats should not have him in the top 5.
Walter Johnson is the only one close in wins with 398.
And its not just a one time fluke. It happens over and over again in each
retest. Makes me not trust the ai for the hof selection.
To me he looked like the best pitcher in the league history to that point and thats worth 9.1 pctg of the votes?

Matt Arnold · 02-17-2019, 11:25 PM

I'm guessing it's somehow related to it showing as his 2nd year on the ballot. I don't know why it's not showing the totals on the player page, but the game probably thought that he had like 0% last year in the voting, and so regresses the totals (it's so that guys like Bonds and Clemens don't get 99% of the vote in their first election, and have to climb the ranks to make it in).

BaseballMan · 02-18-2019, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

I'm guessing it's somehow related to it showing as his 2nd year on the ballot. I don't know why it's not showing the totals on the player page, but the game probably thought that he had like 0% last year in the voting, and so regresses the totals (it's so that guys like Bonds and Clemens don't get 99% of the vote in their first election, and have to climb the ranks to make it in).

It has Ruth getting 99% in his first year. Also i turned the vote on in 1935 preseason so the 1936 should be the first election. How can players have
it be their 2nd year if its the first year of voting?

Matt Arnold · 02-18-2019, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

It has Ruth getting 99% in his first year. Also i turned the vote on in 1935 preseason so the 1936 should be the first election. How can players have
it be their 2nd year if its the first year of voting?

I'm not sure. All I know is that I see on the email a lot of guys have it listed as their 2nd year, so somehow the game things they were on the ballot before. What does your HOF voting history page show?

r0nster · 02-18-2019, 11:35 AM

I have one player who got 100% of the vote (Jose Fernandez) was elected as I picked him as well. I figured 98% as I have seen players who should have gotten 100% only get between 90% and 97% so that does seem realistic …. I have heard a couple users on the board say they got one who got 100% as well I am glad to see its rare but not impossible. if this next player who just retired gets 100% then I will know its easier for pitcher than hitter but that will have to wait 5 seasons yet.

BaseballMan · 02-18-2019, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

I'm not sure. All I know is that I see on the email a lot of guys have it listed as their 2nd year, so somehow the game things they were on the ballot before. What does your HOF voting history page show?

I figured it out. I was turning on the vote on dec 31, 1934. I forgot the voting went to january. I didnt see the notice for voting results for 1935 but if i checked the newspaper im sure it would be there.
Still that doesnt explain why Mathewson got so few votes. I thought maybe it was because there were a lot of good players but Dazzy Vance doesnt look like someone he should have lost too. I just dont see Vance's stats as hofer over some of the other pitchers.

So i decided to choose the first 5 players manually and then turn on ai voting. That worked for my manual vote but the stats were messed up in the newspaper. It showed Walter Johnson having zero wins.
There is no universe in which Walter Johnson would have zero wins.
Just not possible.

Matt Arnold · 02-19-2019, 12:10 AM

Again, if you go to the HOF page, there's a voting history tab there. What may have happened is that it got turned on early and ran once with human voting on while you didn't cast a ballot. All the eligible players would appear to have 0 votes, and as I said, when it ran again the next year, when they start from a baseline value of 0, then the game won't jump them up to the HOF mark right away.

BaseballMan · 02-19-2019, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Again, if you go to the HOF page, there's a voting history tab there. What may have happened is that it got turned on early and ran once with human voting on while you didn't cast a ballot. All the eligible players would appear to have 0 votes, and as I said, when it ran again the next year, when they start from a baseline value of 0, then the game won't jump them up to the HOF mark right away.

The early voting was because i had turned it on in dec.
I turn it on in preseason this time so only the players i selected
were in the hall. The problem is it is showing zero wins for Walter Johnson.
Not zero votes.
Ill run it again after work and see if it was just a fluke.

Matt Arnold · 02-19-2019, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

The early voting was because i had turned it on in dec.
I turn it on in preseason this time so only the players i selected
were in the hall. The problem is it is showing zero wins for Walter Johnson.
Not zero votes.
Ill run it again after work and see if it was just a fluke.

Yeah, it looks like the text there isn't grabbing from the right spot. That's not affecting their votes at all, and the text should still be right on their plaque. You can always manually edit the news story with the correct values if you want to save them. We'll be sure to fix them up for next year.

BaseballMan · 02-19-2019, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

Yeah, it looks like the text there isn't grabbing from the right spot. That's not affecting their votes at all, and the text should still be right on their plaque. You can always manually edit the news story with the correct values if you want to save them. We'll be sure to fix them up for next year.

I think the stats plaques were correct.

BaseballMan · 02-22-2019, 10:49 PM

I made some changes and had much better results.
I turned on the hall settings in 1935 preseason.
I went with a no wait period for now,
20 years on ballot
and 15 ballots.
10 Ballots and gave me too little and 20 gave me too many hall of famers.

I also considered the fact that Mathewson may have not have received a lot of votes because there will be a logjam of great players till the future.
So 5 were elected the first year and 3 for 1937. I added Spalding as my first
Veterans.

BaseballMan · 02-28-2019, 10:00 PM

Had to rethink my veterans selection process.
I was starting it from players that retired in 1885 and going by highest War.
But i felt that players like Anson might get more attention than players like Ross Barnes.
So i started with players retired by 1910. The next year 1911 and the next 1912 and so on.
But going WAR alone put some players ahead that i didnt feel should be elected first. So i used War to get the qualifying players and then HOF standards to elect them.
Is there a way to see the leading hof standards without having to go to each player stats?
Is hof standards a better indicator than career war for a player's worthiness for the hall?

The process did put Anson with over 3,400 hits in but it also put Bobby Mathews who was 263-264. I didn't really feel right about putting a losing pitcher in but i think the game saw more than just wins and losses in his career.

NoOne · 03-01-2019, 05:06 PM

start controlling it... if you want to see somethign specific, it'll take a lot less time and adjustments to get the voting system to do as you want.

it's not that many names per year, and more than half you can skip over with a glance.

obviously, an already running league is a bit more work to start, but only a few names per year after initial selection.

BaseballMan · 03-01-2019, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoOne

start controlling it... if you want to see somethign specific, it'll take a lot less time and adjustments to get the voting system to do as you want.

it's not that many names per year, and more than half you can skip over with a glance.

obviously, an already running league is a bit more work to start, but only a few names per year after initial selection.

Yeah i am gonna have to make some selections. Either picking them all or limiting the ballot to 10 votes might keep the computer from picking to many players that i feel shouldn't go in yet.
Depending on how many the ai pick will determine how many i select.
Most likely the ai will pick 3 at most. So if Mathewson doesnt make it, his hof standards would probably put him in before Dazzy Vance. While the vet vote might allow a player like Cap Anson to get in before players that retired between 1910-1920.
Its almost as great as seeing the real hall of fame vote.

02-17-2019, 05:48 PM	#1
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,271	OOTP HOF voting is a bit odd I got to 1936 and turned on my hall of fame voting. Then i noticed Christy Mathewson wasn't even on the ballot in 1937. So i ran some tests from my backups and found he did appear but not elected. My question is why. I even turned off the 5 year waiting period and set years on ballot to unlimited. Why would a player that has won numerous awards, is the leader in wins and WAR get 9.1 votes while Dazzy Vance gets the most ballots for a pitcher. This makes no sense. Is it better to just manually induct players? Attached Images Last edited by BaseballMan; 02-17-2019 at 09:04 PM.

02-22-2019, 10:49 PM	#15
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,271	I made some changes and had much better results. I turned on the hall settings in 1935 preseason. I went with a no wait period for now, 20 years on ballot and 15 ballots. 10 Ballots and gave me too little and 20 gave me too many hall of famers. I also considered the fact that Mathewson may have not have received a lot of votes because there will be a logjam of great players till the future. So 5 were elected the first year and 3 for 1937. I added Spalding as my first Veterans. Attached Images

02-28-2019, 10:00 PM	#16
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,271	Had to rethink my veterans selection process. I was starting it from players that retired in 1885 and going by highest War. But i felt that players like Anson might get more attention than players like Ross Barnes. So i started with players retired by 1910. The next year 1911 and the next 1912 and so on. But going WAR alone put some players ahead that i didnt feel should be elected first. So i used War to get the qualifying players and then HOF standards to elect them. Is there a way to see the leading hof standards without having to go to each player stats? Is hof standards a better indicator than career war for a player's worthiness for the hall? The process did put Anson with over 3,400 hits in but it also put Bobby Mathews who was 263-264. I didn't really feel right about putting a losing pitcher in but i think the game saw more than just wins and losses in his career. Last edited by BaseballMan; 03-01-2019 at 05:44 PM.

02-17-2019, 07:21 PM	#2
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	I usually let them be voted on for 20 years then if they don't get in then if I think they should be in then elect them by veteran's commission

02-17-2019, 08:05 PM	#3
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,271	What i am doing is to try and follow the real elections as far as players.I will use the veteran's or era committee voting to add players when the game (BBWAA) voting doesnt vote in enough players that year. If it votes in more than there were then i will not select a player unit it is required.. I started my league in 1871 and up to 1936. So for the veteran's vote i start with the war leaders for retired players at the end of 1885. In 1937 i use 1886, in 1938 i use 1887 and so on. I could just make a list of the but i dont know how many players i need to put in the hall till the game finishes its vote. I could start the veteran's vote in 1900 by that might leave out the players in the early years. I chose to not use a waiting period for the first BBWAA vote but use it from the next year on. For the first year of the veteran's vote i set years of service at 5 and then i will go to ten years in my next selection. Using this method My first 2 selections were Al Spalding and George Wright. George Wrights stats would never get him elected by the game but he was one of the best players of his era. Spalding played less than 10 years but was the single season leader in wins and won 216 games. Never won less than 20 games in a season. He dominated pitching like Koufax did. So this allowed me to put him in the hall.

02-17-2019, 11:25 PM	#6
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,145	I'm guessing it's somehow related to it showing as his 2nd year on the ballot. I don't know why it's not showing the totals on the player page, but the game probably thought that he had like 0% last year in the voting, and so regresses the totals (it's so that guys like Bonds and Clemens don't get 99% of the vote in their first election, and have to climb the ranks to make it in).

02-18-2019, 11:35 AM	#9
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	I have one player who got 100% of the vote (Jose Fernandez) was elected as I picked him as well. I figured 98% as I have seen players who should have gotten 100% only get between 90% and 97% so that does seem realistic …. I have heard a couple users on the board say they got one who got 100% as well I am glad to see its rare but not impossible. if this next player who just retired gets 100% then I will know its easier for pitcher than hitter but that will have to wait 5 seasons yet.

02-19-2019, 12:10 AM	#11
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,145	Again, if you go to the HOF page, there's a voting history tab there. What may have happened is that it got turned on early and ran once with human voting on while you didn't cast a ballot. All the eligible players would appear to have 0 votes, and as I said, when it ran again the next year, when they start from a baseline value of 0, then the game won't jump them up to the HOF mark right away.

03-01-2019, 05:06 PM	#17
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	start controlling it... if you want to see somethign specific, it'll take a lot less time and adjustments to get the voting system to do as you want. it's not that many names per year, and more than half you can skip over with a glance. obviously, an already running league is a bit more work to start, but only a few names per year after initial selection.