"Cleaning Up" The Game

Klew1986 · 03-20-2015, 06:36 PM

I am going to start a MLB game and had an interesting idea. I would go through and delete all retired players who have been linked to PEDS (suspended, banned, etc). As active players who have been linked to steroids retire, I would delete them too. Would be curious to see how long a clean Maris HR record would last and give Hank Aaron his rightful title as HR King back.

I would get a master list of all players who have been linked (present and past players).

FunkyBike1 · 03-20-2015, 06:44 PM

Well nearly every active player has been "linked" to steroids in some way. It would be impractical to delete everyone, so I'm assuming you're limiting it to players who were actually suspended.

Klew1986 · 03-20-2015, 06:52 PM

Yeah. As with active players, I will delete players who have actually been suspended.

frangipard · 03-20-2015, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klew1986

As active players who have been linked to steroids retire, I would delete them too. Would be curious to see how long a clean Maris HR record would last and give Hank Aaron his rightful title as HR King back.

You'll have to define "linked." Bonds was never suspended or banned. If you mean "used," Hank Aaron is out. If you mean "used a lot" .... good luck figuring that out.

The Game · 03-20-2015, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frangipard

You'll have to define "linked." Bonds was never suspended or banned. If you mean "used," Hank Aaron is out. If you mean "used a lot" .... good luck figuring that out.

Greenies are not Steroids.

frangipard · 03-20-2015, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Game

Greenies are not Steroids.

The OP said "I would go through and delete all retired players who have been linked to PEDs." Greenies are/were a PED.

Klew1986 · 03-20-2015, 11:07 PM

I'm leaning towards scrapping this idea. It would be too tough to go back in time and figure out who used PEDs and such.

Raidergoo · 03-20-2015, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klew1986

I'm leaning towards scrapping this idea. It would be too tough to go back in time and figure out who used PEDs and such.

The more I've read about the subject, and about the history of baseball...altered players have been around since WW2.

The Wolf · 03-21-2015, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

The more I've read about the subject, and about the history of baseball...altered players have been around since WW2.

Not like Bonds. That pumpkinhead wasn't even human any more. Chemistry hit those home runs, not him.

seekercuz · 03-21-2015, 10:02 AM

If you are going to delete all guys who used PED's you are essentially deleting nearly every big name player in baseball history. Whether they were using steroids or amphetamines, nearly every big name had some sort of drug that they used to keep themselves going. 150 - 162 games a year is a lot, especially when players were on buses instead of planes.

For the record, Bonds hit those HR's, every single one of them. Did his extreme training regimen, aided through the use of steroids, help him build the muscle mass that pushed out more HR's than usual? There is no doubt for most people. BUt he still hit every one of them with that beautiful, beautiful swing.

BusterKing · 03-21-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekercuz

If you are going to delete all guys who used PED's you are essentially deleting nearly every big name player in baseball history. Whether they were using steroids or amphetamines, nearly every big name had some sort of drug that they used to keep themselves going. 150 - 162 games a year is a lot, especially when players were on buses instead of planes.

For the record, Bonds hit those HR's, every single one of them. Did his extreme training regimen, aided through the use of steroids, help him build the muscle mass that pushed out more HR's than usual? There is no doubt for most people. BUt he still hit every one of them with that beautiful, beautiful swing.

Reward the cheaters..... home runs because he cheated. They wouldn't go that far and with bat speed precision without the drugs.

OldFatGuy · 03-21-2015, 11:11 AM

Nearly every business in America not only allows, but encourages the use of PED's every day by providing all of the paraphernalia and the drug itself.

Coffee is a PED, as caffeine is a drug. This topic always makes me laugh. Babe Ruth reportedly drank goat urine in an attempt to get the testosterone from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Not like Bonds. That pumpkinhead wasn't even human any more. Chemistry hit those home runs, not him.

Chemistry, huh? Makes one wonder why GM's didn't go out and sign all the pro wrestlers from the WWF (or whatever the letters are that represent pro "wrestling" these days). Every GM in the 90's should've been fired for not signing all of those 70 home run a year guys.

The Game · 03-22-2015, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

Chemistry, huh? Makes one wonder why GM's didn't go out and sign all the pro wrestlers from the WWF (or whatever the letters are that represent pro "wrestling" these days). Every GM in the 90's should've been fired for not signing all of those 70 home run a year guys.

A few of them did play baseball. Randy Poffo being the best of the group.

megamanmatt · 03-22-2015, 07:09 PM

Well the argument against most PED users is it's "cheating". If that is our problem then why are we even stopping at PEDs? The Hall of Fame is full of cheaters, on some level or another.

OldFatGuy · 03-22-2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

Well the argument against most PED users is it's "cheating". If that is our problem then why are we even stopping at PEDs? The Hall of Fame is full of cheaters, on some level or another.

IMO cheating is wrong, and I completely understand the "let's not reward cheaters" mentality. I wish more of us insisted on that mentality outside of baseball (Wall St., politicians, CEO's as blatant examples where cheating is vastly rewarded).

My problem is with saying on one hand, with a "wink/wink, nod/nod" that it's okay to do something, but then later wanting to punish/hold accountable players/people for doing exactly what they were "told" was okay. There wasn't a GM/Manager/Owner in baseball in the 90's complaining about PED us when attendance was increasing and baseball interest was peaking over the Bonds/Sosa/McGwire home run extravaganza. And there wasn't a GM/Manager/Owner in baseball in the 90's that didn't know PED use was rampant. Any of them claiming so are utter liars.

It's that hypocrisy that I can't stand. Don't tell your employees it's "ok" with a wink and a nod one minute, and then later on when everyone finds out they've been doing exactly what you knew they were doing get up on your high horse and pretend to be offended and hold your employees, AND ONLY YOUR EMPLOYEES (i.e. the players) accountable.

That's bull feces.

megamanmatt · 03-22-2015, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

IMO cheating is wrong, and I completely understand the "let's not reward cheaters" mentality. I wish more of us insisted on that mentality outside of baseball (Wall St., politicians, CEO's as blatant examples where cheating is vastly rewarded).

My problem is with saying on one hand, with a "wink/wink, nod/nod" that it's okay to do something, but then later wanting to punish/hold accountable players/people for doing exactly what they were "told" was okay. There wasn't a GM/Manager/Owner in baseball in the 90's complaining about PED us when attendance was increasing and baseball interest was peaking over the Bonds/Sosa/McGwire home run extravaganza. And there wasn't a GM/Manager/Owner in baseball in the 90's that didn't know PED use was rampant. Any of them claiming so are utter liars.

It's that hypocrisy that I can't stand. Don't tell your employees it's "ok" with a wink and a nod one minute, and then later on when everyone finds out they've been doing exactly what you knew they were doing get up on your high horse and pretend to be offended and hold your employees, AND ONLY YOUR EMPLOYEES (i.e. the players) accountable.

That's bull feces.

I feel pretty much the same.

NCBeachBum · 03-22-2015, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

The more I've read about the subject, and about the history of baseball...altered players have been around since WW2.

You can go right back to the 19th c., when you had future Hall of Famers eating ground animal testicles for extra testosterone (which probably didn't work at all, but the attempt was the same).

RchW · 03-22-2015, 07:55 PM

Then you better delete the 1951 Giants if it's really about cheating.

Raidergoo · 03-22-2015, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCBeachBum

You can go right back to the 19th c., when you had future Hall of Famers eating ground animal testicles for extra testosterone (which probably didn't work at all, but the attempt was the same).

True. I find that to be somewhat different than consumption of amphetamines of dubious legality. But the Army was giving contemporaneous infantrymen the same stuff. I thought the 101st Airborne did a bang-up job at Bastonge. Why should I not give the same sort of consideration to guys who played in 150 games in the 1950's as the Screaming Eagles?

Baseball has a sordid past, and I have not made my peace with it yet. I don't think I can be as absolutist about this issue as I have been before. All I can do is admit that my thinking is in flux, and the issue makes me miserable.

NCBeachBum · 03-22-2015, 08:39 PM

I can't quite say my thinking is in flux, but I understand exactly what you mean.

Personally, I put this right in there with the evils of the reserve clause and segregation (though I don't consider it nearly as bad as either); We can't change these regrettable pasts, so we must take things as they were. The important thing is that those in power assure that things are changed going forward so that they are indeed the past.

03-20-2015, 06:36 PM	#1
Klew1986 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,723	"Cleaning Up" The Game I am going to start a MLB game and had an interesting idea. I would go through and delete all retired players who have been linked to PEDS (suspended, banned, etc). As active players who have been linked to steroids retire, I would delete them too. Would be curious to see how long a clean Maris HR record would last and give Hank Aaron his rightful title as HR King back. I would get a master list of all players who have been linked (present and past players). Last edited by Klew1986; 03-20-2015 at 06:37 PM.

03-22-2015, 07:09 PM	#14
megamanmatt Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lakeville, Minnesota Posts: 2,416	Well the argument against most PED users is it's "cheating". If that is our problem then why are we even stopping at PEDs? The Hall of Fame is full of cheaters, on some level or another. __________________ "The Minneapolis Lakers moved to Los Angeles, where there are no lakes; The Oilers moved to Tennessee where there is no oil; the Jazz moved to Salt Lake City where they don't allow music; The Oakland Raiders moved to Los Angeles and then back to Oakland, no one in Los Angeles seemed to notice." Note to self: Princess Kenny was really off-putting.

03-22-2015, 07:55 PM	#18
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	Then you better delete the 1951 Giants if it's really about cheating. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

03-22-2015, 08:39 PM	#20
NCBeachBum All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Topsail Island, NC, USA Posts: 1,049	I can't quite say my thinking is in flux, but I understand exactly what you mean. Personally, I put this right in there with the evils of the reserve clause and segregation (though I don't consider it nearly as bad as either); We can't change these regrettable pasts, so we must take things as they were. The important thing is that those in power assure that things are changed going forward so that they are indeed the past. __________________ And ain't that a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame, the way you do Oh, it's a shame, shame, shame Shame, shame on you

03-20-2015, 06:44 PM	#2
FunkyBike1 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 137	Well nearly every active player has been "linked" to steroids in some way. It would be impractical to delete everyone, so I'm assuming you're limiting it to players who were actually suspended.

03-20-2015, 06:52 PM	#3
Klew1986 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,723	Yeah. As with active players, I will delete players who have actually been suspended.

03-20-2015, 11:07 PM	#7
Klew1986 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,723	I'm leaning towards scrapping this idea. It would be too tough to go back in time and figure out who used PEDs and such.

03-21-2015, 10:02 AM	#10
seekercuz Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Hamilton, ON Posts: 21	If you are going to delete all guys who used PED's you are essentially deleting nearly every big name player in baseball history. Whether they were using steroids or amphetamines, nearly every big name had some sort of drug that they used to keep themselves going. 150 - 162 games a year is a lot, especially when players were on buses instead of planes. For the record, Bonds hit those HR's, every single one of them. Did his extreme training regimen, aided through the use of steroids, help him build the muscle mass that pushed out more HR's than usual? There is no doubt for most people. BUt he still hit every one of them with that beautiful, beautiful swing.