Upgrade position goal too demanding?

BaseballGoodToMe · 02-23-2019, 09:07 AM

Does anyone else feel like owners expect too much on this one? Current season I have a goal to upgrade catcher, with last year's 3 contributors having slashes of .238/.328/.339, .178/.239/.299, and .224/.310/.303(a tryout for a not quite ready but highly rated hitting prospect who is actually tearing up AAA this year). This year's starter is .274/.312/.359, no Mike Piazza obviously but a clear upgrade, and shows up as red and unsatisfactory. A few questions;

Is hitting the only factor, or does defense count? (He's actually not very good behind the plate). And what about ratings(I play stats only, potential and overall are shown but no current ratings) And how are the different %'s weighted? His batting average is much better but OBP and SLG only marginal increases.

How long does it take for a player to register as your upgrade? It's late August and I'm thinking of calling up my 25 year old prospect, but I wonder if there's enough time for him to count as the upgrade.

Last year I had a goal to upgrade CF, and after alot of injuries, demotions and callups, ended up with a guy starting 84 games, and going .279/.352/.381 with 16 SBs in 385 PAs(better than any OF the previous season), yet the owner considered my CF to be a guy on the 60 day DL most of the season, with 48 PAs. AND his level of satisfaction changed from red to yellow and back all without the player actually playing.

Dyzalot · 02-23-2019, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballGoodToMe

Does anyone else feel like owners expect too much on this one? Current season I have a goal to upgrade catcher, with last year's 3 contributors having slashes of .238/.328/.339, .178/.239/.299, and .224/.310/.303(a tryout for a not quite ready but highly rated hitting prospect who is actually tearing up AAA this year). This year's starter is .274/.312/.359, no Mike Piazza obviously but a clear upgrade, and shows up as red and unsatisfactory. A few questions;

Is hitting the only factor, or does defense count? (He's actually not very good behind the plate). And what about ratings(I play stats only, potential and overall are shown but no current ratings) And how are the different %'s weighted? His batting average is much better but OBP and SLG only marginal increases.

How long does it take for a player to register as your upgrade? It's late August and I'm thinking of calling up my 25 year old prospect, but I wonder if there's enough time for him to count as the upgrade.

Last year I had a goal to upgrade CF, and after alot of injuries, demotions and callups, ended up with a guy starting 84 games, and going .279/.352/.381 with 16 SBs in 385 PAs(better than any OF the previous season), yet the owner considered my CF to be a guy on the 60 day DL most of the season, with 48 PAs. AND his level of satisfaction changed from red to yellow and back all without the player actually playing.

In my experience position upgrades means the owner wants you to upgrade that position to the point that it will be ranked top 6 in the league when you look at the "Meet My Team" tab. If you get close to top 6 but not quite then they are usually happy but if you are still outside the top ten then they typically give you a fail on that goal.

NoOne · 02-23-2019, 11:00 PM

hope it's relative, because upgrading a catcher would be near impossible.

waittilnextyear · 02-24-2019, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

In my experience position upgrades means the owner wants you to upgrade that position to the point that it will be ranked top 6 in the league when you look at the "Meet My Team" tab. If you get close to top 6 but not quite then they are usually happy but if you are still outside the top ten then they typically give you a fail on that goal.

Yeah, and depending on your AI Evaluation settings someone having a monster year statistically might be enough to push into the Top X players at his position even if his ratings don't change. I've seen this happen when Yangervis Solarte had a monster 5 WAR season for me at 3B--the owner was really not happy at first but things went full-on green later in the season.

jimmysthebestcop · 02-24-2019, 06:11 AM

yeah when it lands on catcher you are screwed because well there are no good catchers

BaseballGoodToMe · 02-25-2019, 01:02 AM

Currently playing fully fictional 18 and yeah, catchers just don't generate as decent players. I'm finding that it's best to start the highest catcher ability I can find for 1-2 runs off my ERAs and hope he's got a good sac bunt rating. Is 19 more of the same?

jimmysthebestcop · 02-25-2019, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaseballGoodToMe

Currently playing fully fictional 18 and yeah, catchers just don't generate as decent players. I'm finding that it's best to start the highest catcher ability I can find for 1-2 runs off my ERAs and hope he's got a good sac bunt rating. Is 19 more of the same?

I don't play fictional but full real world league in late 2020's now. So still a lot of current players or real life draftees like say Shea Langilears etc.

But to me it just looks like catchers can't play offense. And there are tons and tons of catchers it just you have to wait for the random development to pop one of them.

You can still find all star defense catchers just 0 offense.

Maybe everything changes once you get 20-40 years out. I never make it that far. I make it like 15 years and usually start over.

BirdWatcher · 02-25-2019, 10:41 AM

I always find it fascinating here when the conversation turns to how OOTP doesn't make any decent catchers, at least not any catchers that can hit. Because I find myself reading nearly the same thing from multiple sources about IRL MLB.

From what I've seen, the game mirrors reality quite well in this regard.

I think many of us just have to shift our expectations of what a good catcher looks like. I have had pretty good success lately targeting catchers with great defensive skills who have plus plate discipline and either decent gap power or a bit of HR power. I'm lucky if they hit .240. But if they do hit .240 they will often have an OBP closer to .340 and 20-25 doubles. And give me gold glove caliber defense, improving my already very strong pitching staff.

In my current fictional league (my primary save) one young catcher (not on my team) does seem to be developing into a HOF'er, with great power, good defense, decent contact skills, etc. After him the drop-off to the second best catcher in the league is precipitous. But in a 20 team league, 1 superstar catcher seems about right to me.
Which leads to the point about upgrading at that position. From what I've seen the measurement will be how your starting catcher compares to other catchers around the league. So you may be surprised by the modest level of offensive production that might be required to achieve a passing grade in terms of upgrading the position.

Andy · 02-25-2019, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

I always find it fascinating here when the conversation turns to how OOTP doesn't make any decent catchers, at least not any catchers that can hit. Because I find myself reading nearly the same thing from multiple sources about IRL MLB.

From what I've seen, the game mirrors reality quite well in this regard.

I think many of us just have to shift our expectations of what a good catcher looks like. I have had pretty good success lately targeting catchers with great defensive skills who have plus plate discipline and either decent gap power or a bit of HR power. I'm lucky if they hit .240. But if they do hit .240 they will often have an OBP closer to .340 and 20-25 doubles. And give me gold glove caliber defense, improving my already very strong pitching staff.

In my current fictional league (my primary save) one young catcher (not on my team) does seem to be developing into a HOF'er, with great power, good defense, decent contact skills, etc. After him the drop-off to the second best catcher in the league is precipitous. But in a 20 team league, 1 superstar catcher seems about right to me.
Which leads to the point about upgrading at that position. From what I've seen the measurement will be how your starting catcher compares to other catchers around the league. So you may be surprised by the modest level of offensive production that might be required to achieve a passing grade in terms of upgrading the position.

In my fictional league my catcher is basically Mike Zunino, hitting around .190 with power and I'm ok with it.

NoOne · 02-25-2019, 01:20 PM

in 150 years of last year's release, i saw 2-3 really well-rated offensive catchers. (larger sample size compared to '19 but slight differences.. i think those are minimized with catchers based on what i've seen)

out of 100 ratings...

81+ contact and preferably 81+power, but in a catcher's case i have to drop that to ~70ish to count up to 3 in 150 years. i think i had bad luck to start. the first one took over 100 years? since that first great one, i've seen at least 2 since in ~30 years, but not quite 70power on one.

so, i very likely had some wicked bad luck to start my league -- maybe severely negative TCR-caused event hits a guy or two or somone pooped out with a horrible work ethic and never made it etc...

if that is the case, i think that's spot on. ~1 really phenomenol catcher every 15-25 years or so... sometimes more.. .sometimes 0. comiserating, aside

this is definitely an owner goal to ignore in most cases. catchers are some of the worst investments due to demand. if you can't get an elite guy, you shouldn't pay for the maybes at ~10-20M. you can go cheap and defensive and invest that 10-18M somewhere else and get way more return when you add the 2 options together and compare to an expensive catcher route that isn't truly elite. hey, if you can get one of those maybes cheap, that's golden too.

the guys i call elite (above) are the guys that will give you ~5+ war in ~130gs and consistently do so. more importantly the highest rs+rbi total possible given most contexts that matter (playoff team + modern mlb-ish as opposed to 1871). maybe a higher HR league like default would boost that a bit.

there are others that can have good years or even surprise with a good career, but you can't predict them as confidently. these are the guys that are clockwork with health.

jimmysthebestcop · 02-25-2019, 11:05 PM

An offensive catcher today in the MLB probably hits around 260-275 with around 20 ding dongs. And there usually around 10 of these guys per season.

I don't think you get close to that in OOTP 19. I don't have screen shots or anything but it feels that way.

BirdWatcher · 02-26-2019, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

An offensive catcher today in the MLB probably hits around 260-275 with around 20 ding dongs. And there usually around 10 of these guys per season.

I don't think you get close to that in OOTP 19. I don't have screen shots or anything but it feels that way.

Well, in 2018, using the basic parameters you set up above, I am finding 2 who clearly qualify- Realmuto and Yadier Molina. Realmuto hit .277 with 21 HR's, Molina .261 with 20 HR's. We could probably stretch it to include a few more (you did say "around 20 ding dongs")- so let's say Wilson Ramos- .306, 15 HR's, and Yan Gomes- .266, 16 HR's. So liberally I'll give you 4. Which isn't 10. And in today's game, 20 HR's is a pretty low threshold.
And yes, there were 4 others who hit 20 or more HR's (Perez, Gattis, Grandal, Zunino.) But their batting averages ranged from .201 (Zunino) to .241 (Grandal). So not really close enough to give you any of those.

That's just one season, so maybe if I took a longer look your projection of about 10 catchers each season who meet these (not terribly high) offensive levels might be true. But I suspect it also might be more perception than reality. Offensively gifted catchers are a rare commodity. Always have been. Still are. Maybe always will be.

02-23-2019, 09:07 AM	#1
BaseballGoodToMe Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 97	Upgrade position goal too demanding? Does anyone else feel like owners expect too much on this one? Current season I have a goal to upgrade catcher, with last year's 3 contributors having slashes of .238/.328/.339, .178/.239/.299, and .224/.310/.303(a tryout for a not quite ready but highly rated hitting prospect who is actually tearing up AAA this year). This year's starter is .274/.312/.359, no Mike Piazza obviously but a clear upgrade, and shows up as red and unsatisfactory. A few questions; Is hitting the only factor, or does defense count? (He's actually not very good behind the plate). And what about ratings(I play stats only, potential and overall are shown but no current ratings) And how are the different %'s weighted? His batting average is much better but OBP and SLG only marginal increases. How long does it take for a player to register as your upgrade? It's late August and I'm thinking of calling up my 25 year old prospect, but I wonder if there's enough time for him to count as the upgrade. Last year I had a goal to upgrade CF, and after alot of injuries, demotions and callups, ended up with a guy starting 84 games, and going .279/.352/.381 with 16 SBs in 385 PAs(better than any OF the previous season), yet the owner considered my CF to be a guy on the 60 day DL most of the season, with 48 PAs. AND his level of satisfaction changed from red to yellow and back all without the player actually playing.

02-25-2019, 01:20 PM	#10
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	in 150 years of last year's release, i saw 2-3 really well-rated offensive catchers. (larger sample size compared to '19 but slight differences.. i think those are minimized with catchers based on what i've seen) out of 100 ratings... 81+ contact and preferably 81+power, but in a catcher's case i have to drop that to ~70ish to count up to 3 in 150 years. i think i had bad luck to start. the first one took over 100 years? since that first great one, i've seen at least 2 since in ~30 years, but not quite 70power on one. so, i very likely had some wicked bad luck to start my league -- maybe severely negative TCR-caused event hits a guy or two or somone pooped out with a horrible work ethic and never made it etc... if that is the case, i think that's spot on. ~1 really phenomenol catcher every 15-25 years or so... sometimes more.. .sometimes 0. comiserating, aside this is definitely an owner goal to ignore in most cases. catchers are some of the worst investments due to demand. if you can't get an elite guy, you shouldn't pay for the maybes at ~10-20M. you can go cheap and defensive and invest that 10-18M somewhere else and get way more return when you add the 2 options together and compare to an expensive catcher route that isn't truly elite. hey, if you can get one of those maybes cheap, that's golden too. the guys i call elite (above) are the guys that will give you ~5+ war in ~130gs and consistently do so. more importantly the highest rs+rbi total possible given most contexts that matter (playoff team + modern mlb-ish as opposed to 1871). maybe a higher HR league like default would boost that a bit. there are others that can have good years or even surprise with a good career, but you can't predict them as confidently. these are the guys that are clockwork with health. Last edited by NoOne; 02-25-2019 at 01:23 PM.

02-23-2019, 11:00 PM	#3
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	hope it's relative, because upgrading a catcher would be near impossible.

02-24-2019, 06:11 AM	#5
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,728 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	yeah when it lands on catcher you are screwed because well there are no good catchers

02-25-2019, 01:02 AM	#6
BaseballGoodToMe Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 97	Currently playing fully fictional 18 and yeah, catchers just don't generate as decent players. I'm finding that it's best to start the highest catcher ability I can find for 1-2 runs off my ERAs and hope he's got a good sac bunt rating. Is 19 more of the same?

02-25-2019, 10:41 AM	#8
BirdWatcher Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 4,262	I always find it fascinating here when the conversation turns to how OOTP doesn't make any decent catchers, at least not any catchers that can hit. Because I find myself reading nearly the same thing from multiple sources about IRL MLB. From what I've seen, the game mirrors reality quite well in this regard. I think many of us just have to shift our expectations of what a good catcher looks like. I have had pretty good success lately targeting catchers with great defensive skills who have plus plate discipline and either decent gap power or a bit of HR power. I'm lucky if they hit .240. But if they do hit .240 they will often have an OBP closer to .340 and 20-25 doubles. And give me gold glove caliber defense, improving my already very strong pitching staff. In my current fictional league (my primary save) one young catcher (not on my team) does seem to be developing into a HOF'er, with great power, good defense, decent contact skills, etc. After him the drop-off to the second best catcher in the league is precipitous. But in a 20 team league, 1 superstar catcher seems about right to me. Which leads to the point about upgrading at that position. From what I've seen the measurement will be how your starting catcher compares to other catchers around the league. So you may be surprised by the modest level of offensive production that might be required to achieve a passing grade in terms of upgrading the position.

02-25-2019, 11:05 PM	#11
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,728 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	An offensive catcher today in the MLB probably hits around 260-275 with around 20 ding dongs. And there usually around 10 of these guys per season. I don't think you get close to that in OOTP 19. I don't have screen shots or anything but it feels that way.