Struggling With Blue Jays Owner Expectations

[NeilUK02]

Hi

Starting a new normal game as Blue Jays manager the attitude of the owner is always "Win Now" he always expects the playoffs. Also he always wants Donaldson to be signed to an extension, to be fair that is usually possible but you end up with your hands tied for the years to come.

Every year the budget is lowered , always expects to reach the playoffs and you end up with no decent starting pitchers and no way of signing them. You can't go down the route of trading for prospects because he expects to win.

Now I am a Blue Jays fan and I am sure that in reality this coming year the Jays manager can't be expected to reach the playoffs with the Red Sox and Yankees around. Shouldn't the attitude at some point, maybe year 2 or 3 change to "Rebuild" ?

Hope this all makes sense

[Gruber_Tagged_Him]

I tried a Jays dynasty starting in 2018. Yep I was told to sign Dosh, and I did, was very expensive but he rocked for 2018,19,20, bit of a decline in 21.

I got rid of a couple of veterans in 2018 (Smoak, one or two others) and that flipped the attitude over to "Rebuild". Budget has stayed about the same. Of course my primary trade goal has been pitching since that's what the team needs.

Been at "neutral" since 2019. Mind you a skilled player should have been able to take the Jays with Bo and Vlad to the playoffs by now, but I'm a beginner. We've lost 2 game 163's (2018 and 2020) so we're knocking at the door at least!

[manitoba45oes]

i play as the blue jays too. i started my game the end of 2018 with the quick start September rosters. i tore what was left of the team down. signed a couple vets to 1yr deals to fill holes. made room for vlad, bo, jansen, and tellez to come up at various times in 2019. owner goals were dont completely suck finish .500, increase aytendance. make playoffs by 2021. that year was a struggle to play every game. spent most of the year trying to sign free agent prospects and cut some of my minor league dead weight. just small upgrades to every team. 2020 came around i had all my young core on the team. spent decent money on relievers 1 or 2 yr contracts. big money on a closer. missed the playoffs by one game. 2021 owner goals was make playoffs. team started out on a tear. slumped through june and part of july. turned it around 3.5 lead in the AL East at the trade deadline.
anyways bit of a ramble. dont fret too much about owner goals. keep them in the back of your mind but build your team how you want it. i play every game so that lean year in 2019 was a struggle. i really worked hard trying to make trades every day to improve my minor leagues. 2020 was kind of a bummer year too until the team went off in september and made a push for the wild card. 2021 has been fun. i have some good minor leaguer's pushing for MLB playing time. traded the ones i dont have room for some younger talent.
such an awesome game. so many different ways to play. so many different outcomes.
good luck!

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[NeilUK02]

Thanks guys

Funnily enough after posting I started a new game and suddenly all the owner wanted was a winning season. And Donaldson extended, I've made the playoffs and also got Osuna extended , Donaldson was asking for 10 years I got him down to 5. I figured he could be a superb DH in 2 years time once Vlad is ready. An expensive DH no doubt but I want Vlad playing defence as well to develop.

The big problem I am facing now is the fans, (The owner loves me at the moment because I made the playoffs) Tulo and Granderson are the issue, both now have a current and potential ability as half a star. They simply are no longer good enough however from experience of previous games if I let them leave I know fan interest crashes! Just going to have to let them go and live with it I guess, they just aren't good enough anymore

[manitoba45oes]

even if fan interest crashes short term. winning cures all

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[NoOne]

find some popular bench players or even some MiL filler types... sort by popularity and look for seomthing useful.. 1 year contracts, if not against payroll wall or 40-man roster limit.

for a mil-type probably only +1, but a few of those guys can offset a bigger loss... plus, by the time june rolls around with a constently good team should be near their ~norm, either way.

i don't bother, but signing arb deals before they go to arbitration helps too... may even save you ~500k a contract or so... if they are asking for too much, i do le those few go to arb. timing matters... you can do this in regular season for current year +interest or you can wait for offseason after it resets. should be enough time, but less likely to get a cheaper price at end of time-frame.

offer at different times and you see how demands can change... also, along similar lines of thought, avoid offering a contract when a change in info is about to occur -- an award won, a new scouting report, etc etc... this may change that "maybe yes" into a sure-fire "no." or, if you know it's more likely a negative impact, make sure to offer after that change of info... like an aging player vs a player that just won an mvp award.

[NeilUK02]

Thanks again

Do you guys release the veterans you can't trade and swallow the budget loss? I usually get left unable to trade Tulo and I want Bo in the team by 2019 to 2020. 2019 as a backup and then take over.

I see what you mean about fan interest, I traded Granderson for a younger player, not as good a fielder but better hitter and with potential. The fans interest dived, I then managed to get Paul Goldschmidt and they went nuts! All is well again , fickle bunch

[jimmysthebestcop]

I try to always trade players like that but I start an immediate rebuild process. And completely shed payroll.

If the contract is for 2 or 3 years and I know I won't be good I have no problem eating 100% of the costs if it gets me 2-3 prospects.

Absolute worst is when you have to eat >50% and include a good prospect to dump him. But sometimes its needed. I look for those 18 year olds that teams want but they could 5-8 years away from the show. So I don't mind losing them. I'll gain plenty of prospects back in that time.

[NoOne]

if i had to dump someone, i'd let my budget determine how i ate the expense. if i am tight against payroll constraints that year and near future, i'm spreading it out... if i can eat it in one year, i will do that without hurting my team anytime possible. we don't carry over money, so it's always better to eat it now, if you can afford it.

----

over time i have a learned a good understanding of what i can get in return and when it's better to wait for a comp pick.

it's a rare context in which a comp pick is likely to be better except for players i have purposefully kept to an older age and term on contract worked out as not a problem. unless incredibly old, he'd also have to be degraded to some extent that you cannot trade him for anything better than the comp pick or some emotional keeper player.

you'll do better if you are trading for a return of assets far exceding a comp pick for any long-term contract that goes into an older age or to avoid budget problems in near future. trade'em before they take a downturn, not after.

but, try this... always be focused on 3-5 years ahead and let FA supplement in meantime (even helps as you when you trade those FA supplements before end of their contracts). slowly, you'll need fewer and fewer FA until you get to the point you only sign a FA because it'll make your team even more amazing than it is -- never a forced decision and always gravy.

the goal is to avoid clumps of similarly aged important players. if they are, stagger replacing them, which means a couple will have shorter terms with team and maybe 1 or 2 stick around an extra year too. however it works out. usually determined by who signes cheaply or what prospect is best coming up etc etc... context makes it a clockwork decision.

if you stick to it, eventually you'll be replacing 1-2 important players per year. that means you only have to acquire ~1-2 elite prospects per year. that is doable under any settings. even if you can't quite reach that level, if close you will still have an elite and cheap team that can just pay a couple extra quality FA.

plus, with a 3-5 year lead-time, it gives you alow more choices when inevitable and unpredictable problems arise. sure, it'll likely have a negative effect for a short period fo time, but it will almost certainly be reduced compared to normal strategies fo player procurement. similar problems will occur no matter which,,, and a few will be avoided completely.

[NeilUK02]

Thanks for the advice, I just did a quickish 5 year career as a practice really to get used to things. I managed to time the Donaldson extension right and instead of ending up with him between $30m to $38m, I had him on a decreasing 5 year deal. His last season he was on $20m and I managed to trade him then.

I got to the playoffs in every season bar one and won the Division in the last two seasons. However my record in the playoffs isn't good! I lost both times in the division series. The final one I lost 3-2 having been 2-0 up and 5-1 in the 3rd game! Ouch! I simulated most of the regular seasons and played all the playoff games.

Now what I find a struggle is the draft, I usually find the best players are "impossible" to sign and the Jays owner is always lowering the budgets on me. I'm going to start a more long term game now and see how I get on. I ended up with a great pitching staff in the last game but I was very low on prospects so my development skills need work.

Cheers

[NoOne]

hehe i turn draft budgets off. i draft them, or ai, they are done... this ain't kindergarten

so, i can't help you there. but, don't worry about a poor playoff record. small sample is meaningless. i guarantee you consitently make playoffs that things will eventually even out. you are playing top teams, not league avarege. that's a big deal. just being .500 against the best teams means you are an equal. hopefully you end up > .500 in playoffs, if given enough time.

that said, there are things you can do in playoffs that help -- like a 4-man rotation. if you sim games, shorten that bullpen. i put the guys i want used the least as MR-use less often and the 5th sp is just a emergency sp, but could be useful with a weak pen.

don't get too cute in the playoffs. like jim leyland gettinga HR out of santiago one year... on a 'feeling.' do that 100 times and it's a bad decisions 99 times, lol, bench players have low ratings for a reason -- they aren't as good as starters. (for the record, i liked leyland, no problems with how he did things, but small issue with playing bench players in playoffs... awesome in reg season, but... plus, i'm sure the guy that sat wasn't too elite in the santiago example.. leyland wouldn't sit a star. he's no dummy.)

shorten things up, adjust to more time off, and maximize what you have the best of. if a game is a lost cause, don't waste good relievers.

in fact, that's how i choose payroll distribution...it is all about what i use in playoffs... anything extra for regular season is gravy. if i only use 3-4rp in playoffs, i never pay much for 5-6-7. if i can, i will of course. that's the gravy, but i'll never sacrifice spending on a core playoff positions for gravy.

i will never pay heavily on 5 sp, but 4 sp is mostly a sure thing. if i have a young offense, that's easily doable. i don't let things get clumpy like that with ages though. usualyl 2-3 heavy SP contracts and 1 is always about to leave.

draft -- if drafting bottom it's usually better to go with SP. if you see a bomber that late, maybe take a flier, if a position of future need. if you were only concerned about who will play for you, i'd be more pro offense. if you are trading and doing as i suggested, you'll do better drafting mostly SP and the occasional "star" batter, if you trust the ratings. the SP will trade better on average. bottom of 1st and even into 2nd you can get stud SP... less likely to find a stud power-hitting batter after ~5 picks in first round, lol. nearly every year i go SP-SP. once in a while a ~70+ power and near ~70+contact guy slips.. that's what i consider worth it, because that guy will trade as well as a top-3 SP. obviously position is a point to consider as far as demand too... that's not a hot commodity 1b, for example.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by NoOne

hehe i turn draft budgets off. i draft them, or ai, they are done... this ain't kindergarten

so, i can't help you there. but, don't worry about a poor playoff record. small sample is meaningless. i guarantee you consitently make playoffs that things will eventually even out. you are playing top teams, not league avarege. that's a big deal. just being .500 against the best teams means you are an equal. hopefully you end up > .500 in playoffs, if given enough time.

that said, there are things you can do in playoffs that help -- like a 4-man rotation. if you sim games, shorten that bullpen. i put the guys i want used the least as MR-use less often and the 5th sp is just a emergency sp, but could be useful with a weak pen.

don't get too cute in the playoffs. like jim leyland gettinga HR out of santiago one year... on a 'feeling.' do that 100 times and it's a bad decisions 99 times, lol, bench players have low ratings for a reason -- they aren't as good as starters. (for the record, i liked leyland, no problems with how he did things, but small issue with playing bench players in playoffs... awesome in reg season, but... plus, i'm sure the guy that sat wasn't too elite in the santiago example.. leyland wouldn't sit a star. he's no dummy.)

shorten things up, adjust to more time off, and maximize what you have the best of. if a game is a lost cause, don't waste good relievers.

in fact, that's how i choose payroll distribution...it is all about what i use in playoffs... anything extra for regular season is gravy. if i only use 3-4rp in playoffs, i never pay much for 5-6-7. if i can, i will of course. that's the gravy, but i'll never sacrifice spending on a core playoff positions for gravy.

i will never pay heavily on 5 sp, but 4 sp is mostly a sure thing. if i have a young offense, that's easily doable. i don't let things get clumpy like that with ages though. usualyl 2-3 heavy SP contracts and 1 is always about to leave.

I read your entire post. I swear. All I can think of is gravy...mmmmm gravy

[NoOne]

terrible news from toronto.

this just in: former crack-smoking mayor of toronto guilty of vehicular manslaughter while accidentally running over <insert name> and killing him. it is believe that narcotics were invovled. the toronto blue jays will now be owned by <insert name>.

there... you got a newstory to make

too lazy to google the guy's name -- well, i mean the crack-smoker, but both of them qualify for that statement, lol...

[NeilUK02]

Ok everyone, using all your advice I started a new game, I am 5 seasons in and I have won 2 World Series and reached the playoffs in every season other than season 1. I missed out on the Wild Card in that season by 1 game.

I had something happen that I haven't had before as well, a takeover, the new guy was a little more generous with the budgets, not a lot different than Rogers but a little more generous.

Still struggling to develop the prospects in general but had a few successes, Vlad turned out to be a lot better in this game than my other attempts. He became a genuine superstar this time with the bat but also became very good defensively, in the other games I posted about he was always very average defensively.

I had some successes with trades as well, just when I needed a shortstop badly I managed to trade for Manny Machado , I had to give Bo Bechete for him but he wasn't good at all defensively and wasn't really developing. Machado and my big free agent signings, Bryce Harper and Chris Archer carried me to my first World Series as well as Dallas Keuchel who I traded for near the deadline.

Thanks for all the help

[Findest2001]

That's awesome! I'm glad you're having success!

[NoOne]

if i see a prospect stagnating at ~21-22, or a "3rd" pitch for a SP still reading 1/100 etc... i am looking to trade those guys before they lose value. the pitcher example there needs to be done before 22, most liekly... sometimes high talent can keep them interested longer.

if you let them show their colors, they lose value. you can see these guys are more likely to fail, but not guaranteed... with the right level of talent i'll take a risk, but otherwise i look to trade before they lose value. if you can start to recognize things that are nearly impossible to overcome, get rid of those guys before the AI recognizes it.

sure, some go on to great careers elsewhere, but a large portion are half-developed or out of league in no time. play the odds once you recognize them. start paying attention to dynamics of those that fail to devlope.

not everyhting is predictable. i think batters are easier to see, but unlike pitchers you theres not 1 thing that is always goes wrong as often as a 1/100 pitch not moving. either they stagnate or they do not... pitchers stagnate all the time, lol.. .but if one pitch never budges, that's a guaranteed RP and he's not beign traded for anything of value once the AI recognizes it too... you will see it first, though.. so take advantage of it.

dont' worry if power doesn't develop.. but by 24-25 if it's not at least creepign up, it's not likely going to. if it's been the same value for multiple years in AAA andinto MLB career, write it off. let someone else pin hopes on losing odds.

i still rely on age... once they get to 23-24+ the odds of development keep going down even faster... peak dev ages, imo, are 18-22. 23-24 is fine... but 25-26+ is abysmal percentages and get worse each year.

[NoOne]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

I read your entire post. I swear. All I can think of is gravy...mmmmm gravy

gravy is good... mmmmm gravy...

a shared homer j simpson moment is a good moment indeed.

heh, i think i need to get some stuffing and gravy now....