Game Systems: Player Aging and Retirement

JeffR · 07-31-2013, 05:39 AM

It seems logical to move on to this topic after talking about player development earlier. The player decline and retirement systems are intended to keep the game's player pool at a relatively steady level (after a few seasons of ramping up to full size); so far, they seem to be doing a reasonable job of this, so they're not likely to see any more major changes for the release.

Attribute Decline

The key point here: not every attribute gets worse in an aging player. In fact, (slightly) less than half of the player attributes will decline with time, primarily the physical ones: Acceleration, Agility, Balance, Fighting, Speed, Stamina, Strength, Getting Open, Passing, Hitting, and Checking. The actual decline mechanics are simple: 25% chance per attribute of a 1-point decline, checked twice a year once the player's decline period begins. At that rate, with typical luck a first-line NHL star will physically decline to NHL-average levels in about four years, and then to fourth-line levels in another three or four years.

Aging: the Attribute

Which brings us to the next part of the system: If you've played in Commissioner Mode, you may have noticed an attribute named "Aging" in the player's hidden ratings. The Aging attribute adds variation to player development by specifying when the player's decline starts. The low end of the scale can start a decline as early as the teens, while the higher (above 20) end can, in extreme cases, postpone it until the player is over 40.

Aging, however, is not a static attribute. It doesn't develop the way attributes typically do, but instead changes in response to certain events in a player's career. Most new players will start with a rating that leads to a decline beginning around age 25 - but if the player manages to stay employed and free of serious injuries, by the time he reaches his mid-20's his Aging number will likely have been pushed to a level where the decline doesn't start until age 30 or later.

The events that lower Aging are things that accelerate the approach of his decline - specifically, major injuries. Eventually, I'd like to tailor the changes to specific injury types, so concussion problems or major joint damage are more likely to cut a career short than, say, a broken hand. Right now, though, it's primarily tied to injury length.

I don't want to get too specific about events that improve Aging, so they can't be exploited, but in general they're things that you would associate with a player proving his durability. The general idea is, if a player retains enough skill and stays healthy, he has a chance of getting into a Howe- or Selanne-like situation where his level of play stays at a high level for an unusually long time.

Speaking of Gordie, I should note here that the historical game, with normal development turned off (the unchangeable default at the moment, we'll make it optional soon), recalculates player ability every year. So, Aging isn't a significant factor in historicsal play - that's all governed by the player's historical settings, which I'll discuss when I write in-depth about historical play.

Finally, note that the decline governed by Aging is independent of the attribute improvement I described earlier. So, if a player were to have a catastrophic series of injuries that sent him into a decline in his early 20's, the normal improvement that happens at that age would still be operating and counteracting the decline to some extent.

Retirement

Retirement comes in two forms: The first, more common at the higher levels of play, covers the veteran players who quit voluntarily at the end of a long career, knowing they can't play like they used to. The second scenario, much more common throughout most of the database, arrives when a player finds himself unemployed and can't or won't find another job.

The "unemployed retirements" are handled by the same system that governs all the player movement in non-playable leagues. A prolonged period of free agency will eventually lead to a retirement (although those should be uncommon except for the very worst players, the system is aggressive about relocating quality free agents to new teams.) And, in certain situations, players who have to move on from their current team might retire instead. That can cover a variety of cases: someone playing Canadian senior hockey or in a very low division in a European country may have nowhere else to go when his skills decline to the point where he's no longer good enough even for that level. Or, players may find themselves in a situation where a hockey career no longer makes sense - for example, there's a much higher attrition rate for the weaker players on Ivy League teams when they graduate, since using your Harvard degree to earn a living is a little more attractive than making $300 a week in the Federal League.

The "veteran retirements" take a number of factors into account. The player's current age, his Aging attribute, and the number of seasons remaining on his contract are weighed to determine a percentage chance that he might quit. Right now this retirement check is done for everyone on August 1; I'd like to make that a little more variable eventually, and include the possibility of mid-season retirements. Assuming typical attributes and short contracts, this should lead to retirements in the late 30's for most players who manage to establish a solid career in high-level leagues and remain free of serious injuries.

croatian · 07-31-2013, 06:19 AM

it would be so cool if we could retire numbers.

Puckhead · 07-31-2013, 06:59 AM

Your write-ups are always awesome, I'm happy to see the next one and the soon-to-come update!

dave1927p · 07-31-2013, 02:13 PM

one of the things with EHM that annoyed me was that players played forever it seemed like and rarely retired. The average career in the NHL is around 3-5 seasons, in EHM it was probably as high as 10.

I love the idea of some players retiring because they need to support their families and they can't do it as a hockey player in a low level league.

I would also like to see a player retires after playing in the AHL or ECHL and gets offered to play in Europe but doesn't want to leave North America or a certain country (even though he received those contact offers)

EDIT: Jeff, can you please make a new stickied thread to just have links to the "Game Systems" all in one spot. That way no one misses them. I would do it but don't think it would allow me to edit it to add the additional future ones.

Panda Bear · 07-31-2013, 02:25 PM

I'm hoping your inclusion of Passing in that list is an error.

JeffR · 08-02-2013, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by croatian

it would be so cool if we could retire numbers.

I've got a system worked out for handling retired numbers, I just need to add on a way of retiring new ones during gameplay. I guess we could just borrow the Hall of Fame code and use different, lower numbers (and maybe have a user option to retire them manually.)

JeffR · 08-02-2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

I would also like to see a player retires after playing in the AHL or ECHL and gets offered to play in Europe but doesn't want to leave North America or a certain country (even though he received those contact offers)

The country preferences definitely need a little work, there's not a strong enough bias now towards returning home at the end of a career.

Quote:

EDIT: Jeff, can you please make a new stickied thread to just have links to the "Game Systems" all in one spot. That way no one misses them. I would do it but don't think it would allow me to edit it to add the additional future ones.

Yeah, will do, good idea.

JeffR · 08-02-2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panda Bear

I'm hoping your inclusion of Passing in that list is an error.

No, that's deliberate. The reasons will be a little clearer when I post the full descriptions for all attributes (in either the next update or the one after that), but basically, the Passing attribute mainly encompasses the physical, mechanical part of completing a pass. The player's ability to decide who to target with a pass and when won't decline with age, but his body's ability to use that information will. I remember a quote from Gretzky, I think, saying that he understood the game better than ever in his mid-30's, his body just wouldn't cooperate as well anymore.

Getting Open also being on the list is a similar situation, albeit even more of a compromise - some part of the primary goal-scoring attributes needs to get worse, but it would've been overkill to include both it and Shooting Accuracy in the group of decliners, so I went with Getting Open, which has a little more of a physical aspect to it - quickly moving into open ice, pushing off a defender to gain a little room for a moment, etc. So aging players will still finish good chances when they get them, they just won't get them as often.

Caseus · 08-02-2013, 06:06 PM

My initial response is that of awe. After years of EHM, this system sounds incredible.

I would like to raise an issue: both goaltenders and defensemen tend to mature later than forwards. Defensemen don't usually come into their prime until their late 20s. Any chance of reflecting that?

JeffR · 08-02-2013, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseus

My initial response is that of awe. After years of EHM, this system sounds incredible.

I would like to raise an issue: both goaltenders and defensemen tend to mature later than forwards. Defensemen don't usually come into their prime until their late 20s. Any chance of reflecting that?

I want to eventually, but I think I'd rather handle it by varying the speed at which specific attributes improve, so the stuff that tends to develop later (Defensive Read being the obvious example) does that, and therefore crucial parts of a defenceman's game don't peak until a later age. That way, we can still get a 24-year-old Norris winner like P.K. Subban, who's doing it mainly on the strength of his offensive game, instead of artificially constraining defencemen across-the-board.

As for Goaltenders, the mental side of their game is a larger percentage of their total skill set, so that will tend to mean they tend to peak later. (And I forgot to mention in the development post that Goaltending development has some extra unpredictability built into it, so there should be some late bloomers that benefit from big upturns later in their career.)

dave1927p · 08-02-2013, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

I want to eventually, but I think I'd rather handle it by varying the speed at which specific attributes improve, so the stuff that tends to develop later (Defensive Read being the obvious example) does that, and therefore crucial parts of a defenceman's game don't peak until a later age. That way, we can still get a 24-year-old Norris winner like P.K. Subban, who's doing it mainly on the strength of his offensive game, instead of artificially constraining defencemen across-the-board.

As for Goaltenders, the mental side of their game is a larger percentage of their total skill set, so that will tend to mean they tend to peak later. (And I forgot to mention in the development post that Goaltending development has some extra unpredictability built into it, so there should be some late bloomers that benefit from big upturns later in their career.)

goalies definitely take until the age of 26 or so and i'd say defenceman are that same age before they peak. 26 for a goalie is make it or break it.

geckon · 08-03-2013, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

I've got a system worked out for handling retired numbers, I just need to add on a way of retiring new ones during gameplay. I guess we could just borrow the Hall of Fame code and use different, lower numbers (and maybe have a user option to retire them manually.)

I think it should be up to a GM entirely to retire numbers in his team.

Thanks for this posts an explanations!

croatian · 08-03-2013, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

I've got a system worked out for handling retired numbers, I just need to add on a way of retiring new ones during gameplay. I guess we could just borrow the Hall of Fame code and use different, lower numbers (and maybe have a user option to retire them manually.)

That would be the best option, because there always will be players like Daneyko, who would never ever have his number retired if only judging by his points total.

Caseus · 08-03-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

I want to eventually, but I think I'd rather handle it by varying the speed at which specific attributes improve, so the stuff that tends to develop later (Defensive Read being the obvious example) does that, and therefore crucial parts of a defenceman's game don't peak until a later age. That way, we can still get a 24-year-old Norris winner like P.K. Subban, who's doing it mainly on the strength of his offensive game, instead of artificially constraining defencemen across-the-board.

As for Goaltenders, the mental side of their game is a larger percentage of their total skill set, so that will tend to mean they tend to peak later. (And I forgot to mention in the development post that Goaltending development has some extra unpredictability built into it, so there should be some late bloomers that benefit from big upturns later in their career.)

That sounds great. I can't wait to start a dynasty with the full game (but I'd settle for the next update!).

Bluenoser · 08-16-2013, 07:49 PM

Thanks for these write ups, they're awesome.

In OOTP, we have a way to set player aging speed for the overall league. Is this something we'll be able to do when creating custom (fictional) leagues? Basically we can slow aging so it is common for players to play into their 40's.

If not, is it something that we may see in the game a few versions down the road?

Tks

JeffR · 08-17-2013, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

In OOTP, we have a way to set player aging speed for the overall league. Is this something we'll be able to do when creating custom (fictional) leagues? Basically we can slow aging so it is common for players to play into their 40's.

There's actually a (disabled) option for that under Game-Setup/Options, but I think that's a remnant of an older aging system that got replaced. I'll check with the guys in the morning to see if it's still functional and about getting the age-setting part of it activated.

mgom27 · 08-17-2013, 05:27 PM

Also check on Unretirements and Players be coming Coaches/Front Office and also League Structure,Name/Minor League Afflication in 2013-14 League and so on been turned on.

northjersey · 11-18-2025, 10:15 AM

bringing up an old threat here but can you expand on the aging?

should a young player (late teens/early 20's) have a very high aging attribute # ? should a player towards the end of their career (mid to late 30's) be lower, such as 10-12?

I noticed that Cam Talbot (Wings G) had an aging of 12, I believe he is 38, he went from backup goalie one day, to retired the next day in my save, no injuries to that player this season at all. Fortunately I caught it in time and was allowed to "unretire" the player before it was too late.

07-31-2013, 05:39 AM	#1
JeffR FHM Producer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 17,426	Game Systems: Player Aging and Retirement It seems logical to move on to this topic after talking about player development earlier. The player decline and retirement systems are intended to keep the game's player pool at a relatively steady level (after a few seasons of ramping up to full size); so far, they seem to be doing a reasonable job of this, so they're not likely to see any more major changes for the release. Attribute Decline The key point here: not every attribute gets worse in an aging player. In fact, (slightly) less than half of the player attributes will decline with time, primarily the physical ones: Acceleration, Agility, Balance, Fighting, Speed, Stamina, Strength, Getting Open, Passing, Hitting, and Checking. The actual decline mechanics are simple: 25% chance per attribute of a 1-point decline, checked twice a year once the player's decline period begins. At that rate, with typical luck a first-line NHL star will physically decline to NHL-average levels in about four years, and then to fourth-line levels in another three or four years. Aging: the Attribute Which brings us to the next part of the system: If you've played in Commissioner Mode, you may have noticed an attribute named "Aging" in the player's hidden ratings. The Aging attribute adds variation to player development by specifying when the player's decline starts. The low end of the scale can start a decline as early as the teens, while the higher (above 20) end can, in extreme cases, postpone it until the player is over 40. Aging, however, is not a static attribute. It doesn't develop the way attributes typically do, but instead changes in response to certain events in a player's career. Most new players will start with a rating that leads to a decline beginning around age 25 - but if the player manages to stay employed and free of serious injuries, by the time he reaches his mid-20's his Aging number will likely have been pushed to a level where the decline doesn't start until age 30 or later. The events that lower Aging are things that accelerate the approach of his decline - specifically, major injuries. Eventually, I'd like to tailor the changes to specific injury types, so concussion problems or major joint damage are more likely to cut a career short than, say, a broken hand. Right now, though, it's primarily tied to injury length. I don't want to get too specific about events that improve Aging, so they can't be exploited, but in general they're things that you would associate with a player proving his durability. The general idea is, if a player retains enough skill and stays healthy, he has a chance of getting into a Howe- or Selanne-like situation where his level of play stays at a high level for an unusually long time. Speaking of Gordie, I should note here that the historical game, with normal development turned off (the unchangeable default at the moment, we'll make it optional soon), recalculates player ability every year. So, Aging isn't a significant factor in historicsal play - that's all governed by the player's historical settings, which I'll discuss when I write in-depth about historical play. Finally, note that the decline governed by Aging is independent of the attribute improvement I described earlier. So, if a player were to have a catastrophic series of injuries that sent him into a decline in his early 20's, the normal improvement that happens at that age would still be operating and counteracting the decline to some extent. Retirement Retirement comes in two forms: The first, more common at the higher levels of play, covers the veteran players who quit voluntarily at the end of a long career, knowing they can't play like they used to. The second scenario, much more common throughout most of the database, arrives when a player finds himself unemployed and can't or won't find another job. The "unemployed retirements" are handled by the same system that governs all the player movement in non-playable leagues. A prolonged period of free agency will eventually lead to a retirement (although those should be uncommon except for the very worst players, the system is aggressive about relocating quality free agents to new teams.) And, in certain situations, players who have to move on from their current team might retire instead. That can cover a variety of cases: someone playing Canadian senior hockey or in a very low division in a European country may have nowhere else to go when his skills decline to the point where he's no longer good enough even for that level. Or, players may find themselves in a situation where a hockey career no longer makes sense - for example, there's a much higher attrition rate for the weaker players on Ivy League teams when they graduate, since using your Harvard degree to earn a living is a little more attractive than making $300 a week in the Federal League. The "veteran retirements" take a number of factors into account. The player's current age, his Aging attribute, and the number of seasons remaining on his contract are weighed to determine a percentage chance that he might quit. Right now this retirement check is done for everyone on August 1; I'd like to make that a little more variable eventually, and include the possibility of mid-season retirements. Assuming typical attributes and short contracts, this should lead to retirements in the late 30's for most players who manage to establish a solid career in high-level leagues and remain free of serious injuries.

07-31-2013, 02:13 PM	#4
dave1927p FHM Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brantford, ON Posts: 2,906	one of the things with EHM that annoyed me was that players played forever it seemed like and rarely retired. The average career in the NHL is around 3-5 seasons, in EHM it was probably as high as 10. I love the idea of some players retiring because they need to support their families and they can't do it as a hockey player in a low level league. I would also like to see a player retires after playing in the AHL or ECHL and gets offered to play in Europe but doesn't want to leave North America or a certain country (even though he received those contact offers) EDIT: Jeff, can you please make a new stickied thread to just have links to the "Game Systems" all in one spot. That way no one misses them. I would do it but don't think it would allow me to edit it to add the additional future ones. __________________ IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence? Last edited by dave1927p; 07-31-2013 at 02:16 PM.

08-17-2013, 05:27 PM	#17
mgom27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 3,532	Also check on Unretirements and Players be coming Coaches/Front Office and also League Structure,Name/Minor League Afflication in 2013-14 League and so on been turned on. __________________ Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

07-31-2013, 06:19 AM	#2
croatian All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 1,044	it would be so cool if we could retire numbers.

07-31-2013, 06:59 AM	#3
Puckhead Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Germany Posts: 162	Your write-ups are always awesome, I'm happy to see the next one and the soon-to-come update!

07-31-2013, 02:25 PM	#5
Panda Bear Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9	I'm hoping your inclusion of Passing in that list is an error.

08-02-2013, 06:06 PM	#9
Caseus Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 9	My initial response is that of awe. After years of EHM, this system sounds incredible. I would like to raise an issue: both goaltenders and defensemen tend to mature later than forwards. Defensemen don't usually come into their prime until their late 20s. Any chance of reflecting that?

08-16-2013, 07:49 PM	#15
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,224	Thanks for these write ups, they're awesome. In OOTP, we have a way to set player aging speed for the overall league. Is this something we'll be able to do when creating custom (fictional) leagues? Basically we can slow aging so it is common for players to play into their 40's. If not, is it something that we may see in the game a few versions down the road? Tks

11-18-2025, 10:15 AM	#18
northjersey Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2022 Posts: 226	bringing up an old threat here but can you expand on the aging? should a young player (late teens/early 20's) have a very high aging attribute # ? should a player towards the end of their career (mid to late 30's) be lower, such as 10-12? I noticed that Cam Talbot (Wings G) had an aging of 12, I believe he is 38, he went from backup goalie one day, to retired the next day in my save, no injuries to that player this season at all. Fortunately I caught it in time and was allowed to "unretire" the player before it was too late.