3-D Graphics - Page 2

thevaliantx · 05-02-2013, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

I play out all my games as well... which is why I think I would turn off graphics. It would make the game incredibly slow.

It wouldn't have anything to do with the game's speed. It's just that you don't want to see animations, that's all.

thevaliantx · 05-02-2013, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

FM is deep and terminally boring. I can understand the appeal of the 3D graphics when you finally get to a game. It's the dead time between the rare games that bores me. I'm not against graphics in OOTP completely but I can't imagine watching 162 games ever.

And since none of us can lay claim to speaking, with absolute certainty, on the behalf of others, you've illustrated why there should be an option in OOTP see this sort of thing.

rpriske · 05-06-2013, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thevaliantx

It wouldn't have anything to do with the game's speed. It's just that you don't want to see animations, that's all.

Uh, of course it would.

But, as long as you can turn them off, it would not stop my willingness to buy the game.

blasek0 · 05-06-2013, 02:29 PM

I am neutral on the concept of graphics. I'd be among the first to turn graphics off, when the rare event that I play out a game happens. So, it wouldn't increase or decrease my enjoyment of the game in any meaningful fashion directly.

My only concern is it would take away from the development time of other features and thus hinder the development of things that I actually care about. So, my worries associated with graphics are indirect, rather than direct. Although, if they (OOTP staff) said 3D graphics would increase sales and allow them to hire another person(s) to work on the game (not 100% convinced that it would, yet), then my worries would be alleviated.

BigCity · 05-10-2013, 01:30 PM

There are TWO types of OOTP customers; those that love the game of baseball, and those that love the game of business. There are also those that play OOTP because of both.

To deny one for the sake of the other is a cardinal sin - thus why an option of graphics must be included. The issue then becomes "what kind of graphics" and "how to accomplish it" and those questions should be left to the designer who is the creative founder of the game.

Discussion of what we all think is relevant AND useful, but extrapolation to threats and suggestions of what one might do if it doesn't fall their way is misplaced.

Let's try and keep the discussion to what it should look like if included, not whether it should or shouldn't.

2 cents.

Cryomaniac · 05-10-2013, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCity

There are TWO types of OOTP customers; those that love the game of baseball, and those that love the game of business. There are also those that play OOTP because of both.

To deny one for the sake of the other is a cardinal sin - thus why an option of graphics must be included. The issue then becomes "what kind of graphics" and "how to accomplish it" and those questions should be left to the designer who is the creative founder of the game.

Discussion of what we all think is relevant AND useful, but extrapolation to threats and suggestions of what one might do if it doesn't fall their way is misplaced.

Let's try and keep the discussion to what it should look like if included, not whether it should or shouldn't.

2 cents.

Hear, hear.

rpriske · 05-10-2013, 03:33 PM

I said before that I don't care if it is implemented, but the logic in that post is WAAAAY off.

'There are those who like baseball'... okay. No need for graphics there.

'There are those who like business'... I would be surprised if ANYONE plays the game because they like business. They may like the 'business of baseball', but that is covered by the third of the two choices you listed.

'Those who like both'. No need for graphcis there.

None of those options require graphics.

Rather you are creating a whole different group... those who like baseball and video games... or at least video game graphics.

I am not calling that group down, but don't assume, as you do in your post, that anyone who is a fan of baseball would obviously want graphics. To us the word 'must' is just ridiculous. People are buying the game. Those that try to imply that there will be a big exodus away from the game without the induction of graphics are just straight up Chicken Littles.

Maybe there will be graphics added. Maybe not. Just stop trying to claim that it is crucial to the survival of the game. It just isn't.

You don't get to define the discussion just because it fits what you want.

RchW · 05-10-2013, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thevaliantx

And since none of us can lay claim to speaking, with absolute certainty, on the behalf of others, you've illustrated why there should be an option in OOTP see this sort of thing.

I spoke only for myself no one else, but still said it should be available. Not sure what you thought I said.

BigCity · 05-10-2013, 09:01 PM

It's always interesting how some will twist your words into meaning something you weren't saying, so let me try once more.

First, my comment was directed at everyone - not anyone in particular.

Second, There ARE two groups of customers - those that like the game of baseball, and those that like the game of running a baseball team. I would have thought my previous wording would be taken that way.

Those that like the game of baseball will certainly be more inclined to want to watch a visual representation of the game on the field than those who are more interested in the game of "running" the business of baseball.

Third, There are some customers that enjoy both of these worlds equally.

Fourth, I never said - nor suggested - that the game will fail if graphics is not included. What I "DID" say was no one customer group should denounce the addition or elimination of graphics to serve their own wants. We all have a right to a game of our liking. It is just as wrong for one customer to deny me the right to see improved graphics and it is for me to demand graphics be improved. That choice is the developers and no one else's.

The only reason I posted this opinion was because the entire graphics discussion rotates around a YES-NO argument instead of providing ideas on HOW graphics might be improved IF Markus decides to do it.

If we're going to actually help Markus design an improvement that is acceptable to everyone, we have to quit spinning our wheels trying to convince each other graphics is or is not needed. As long as there are BOTH types of customers described above, Markus best "business" decision is to simply add graphics with an on-off switch to appease everyone.

Arguing whether he should or shouldn't do this seems to be a wasted effort equal to arguing whether online leagues should be supported or not. It's an equal comparison, there are customers who have never used the online option and those who live or die for it.

Is there anyone out there not buying the game because the online league option is included?

My 3rd cent.

David Watts · 05-11-2013, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCity

It's always interesting how some will twist your words into meaning something you weren't saying, so let me try once more.

First, my comment was directed at everyone - not anyone in particular.

Second, There ARE two groups of customers - those that like the game of baseball, and those that like the game of running a baseball team. I would have thought my previous wording would be taken that way.

Those that like the game of baseball will certainly be more inclined to want to watch a visual representation of the game on the field than those who are more interested in the game of "running" the business of baseball.

Third, There are some customers that enjoy both of these worlds equally.

Fourth, I never said - nor suggested - that the game will fail if graphics is not included. What I "DID" say was no one customer group should denounce the addition or elimination of graphics to serve their own wants. We all have a right to a game of our liking. It is just as wrong for one customer to deny me the right to see improved graphics and it is for me to demand graphics be improved. That choice is the developers and no one else's.

The only reason I posted this opinion was because the entire graphics discussion rotates around a YES-NO argument instead of providing ideas on HOW graphics might be improved IF Markus decides to do it.

If we're going to actually help Markus design an improvement that is acceptable to everyone, we have to quit spinning our wheels trying to convince each other graphics is or is not needed. As long as there are BOTH types of customers described above, Markus best "business" decision is to simply add graphics with an on-off switch to appease everyone.

Arguing whether he should or shouldn't do this seems to be a wasted effort equal to arguing whether online leagues should be supported or not. It's an equal comparison, there are customers who have never used the online option and those who live or die for it.

Is there anyone out there not buying the game because the online league option is included?

My 3rd cent.

I like the game of baseball. I have no interest at all in the business side of baseball. I turn all that over to the AI. Sometimes I even play with no financials. I play OOTP because I love baseball and I love following players through their careers. I love to watch a league develop a history of its own. I have absolutely no interest in a visual representation of the game. I won't campaign against graphics, especially since the games creator has already put forth that any graphics added will be use optional.

catcherjul · 05-11-2013, 08:15 AM

I think it would be awsome! No need to a very realistic 3D graphic, but only a hitted ball (better than what we have now) with maybe some little points (players) chasing the ball. But anyway, with it or not, I'll buy OOTP 15-16-17-18... for sure.

dodgerblue88 · 05-12-2013, 02:58 PM

Maybe markus could look into something like this and possibly implement something similar into future versions of ootp

Baseball - SportFlashback.com

a standalone graphics engine which visually reproduces what the ootp play-by-play tells it to. aka virtual replay.

Gil Thorp · 05-13-2013, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I play OOTP because I love baseball and I love following players through their careers. I love to watch a league develop a history of its own. I have absolutely no interest in a visual representation of the game. I won't campaign against graphics, especially since the games creator has already put forth that any graphics added will be use optional.

This sums it up for me. I don't understand how graphics can make the game better. Dots moving around the field, really? My concern is that development in this area could take away from development and improvement of the game's core areas. To interest me, a visual representation of the game would have to be so good that all of us would have to go out and buy high end gaming machines.

DrSatan · 05-25-2013, 04:37 AM

I have long dreamt of the day when OOTP would team up with another company to create a game with the simulation depth of OOTP and the game play of a game like The Show. The last game to come close was the High Heat series. You could simulate when you wanted, and pick up the sticks and play a game or series when you wanted. After High Heat ended I turned to OOTP, and never really looked back. I tried MVP. It had awesome game play, but the depth on the GM side was nothing compared to OOTP, so I could never really get into it. I tried the MLB 2K series, and couldn't get into for the same reason. OOTP is the greatest baseball experience I've had on the PC or Console. The only thing keeping it from being the greatest baseball game ever made in the history of ever is smashing it together with an MLB2K type game. If only we could throw both games in a room with some booze and Barry White. Their love child would change the world.

Just stay the hell away from EA.

dodgerblue88 · 05-25-2013, 04:48 PM

It would be cool if Markus would find some way to add 3d or even 2d sprites and layer them on a 2d stadium image, that way we could use stadium images already available and watch the little guys hit field and run

Cryomaniac · 05-25-2013, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSatan

I have long dreamt of the day when OOTP would team up with another company to create a game with the simulation depth of OOTP and the game play of a game like The Show. The last game to come close was the High Heat series. You could simulate when you wanted, and pick up the sticks and play a game or series when you wanted. After High Heat ended I turned to OOTP, and never really looked back. I tried MVP. It had awesome game play, but the depth on the GM side was nothing compared to OOTP, so I could never really get into it. I tried the MLB 2K series, and couldn't get into for the same reason. OOTP is the greatest baseball experience I've had on the PC or Console. The only thing keeping it from being the greatest baseball game ever made in the history of ever is smashing it together with an MLB2K type game. If only we could throw both games in a room with some booze and Barry White. Their love child would change the world.

Just stay the hell away from EA.

I've always said this as well. I hold out hope that it will happen eventually, either from OOTP or someone else. And if someone did it for American Football, I don't think I would ever leave the house lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgerblue88

It would be cool if Markus would find some way to add 3d or even 2d sprites and layer them on a 2d stadium image, that way we could use stadium images already available and watch the little guys hit field and run

That might actually be harder to make work (or at least to test reliably) than a stand alone graphics engine.

dodgerblue88 · 05-26-2013, 02:58 AM

Any you guys ever play earl weaver baseball 2? You can download a PC shareware version called igiball at http://www.bangbangplay.com

I love to play this game just for the fact that I can see my games being played out, and despite the games age and graphics it accurately represents a baseball game.

My dream is this: OOTP with a similar graphical representation as ewb2/igiball and the ability to import custom ballparks made in Google sketchup. That would be an absolute dream. The mod community would go nuts.

dodgerblue88 · 05-26-2013, 03:34 AM

Allow me to further illustrate my dream....

Why google sketchup? it's free, easy to use, and exports to all of the major file formats. I've been working on stadium building for about the last two years with sketchup and it's perfect because you can customize just about every aspect fairly quickly.

So anyways, for my idea, this would be the main batter/pitcher interface screen:

and once the ball is hit the action would be played out in this view:

BTW, that is a model of ebbets field i've been working on, just needs some final texturing to be completed.

Here's one of the best stadiums I've ever seen made in sketchup, not by myself, but this shows the potential of sketchup as a stadium builder:

and just for kicks, here a model of LA coliseum i just started working on in baseball configuration

Now would I be opposed to MLB the show type graphics? Absolutely not, but im thinking this is something a bit more reasonable that Markus & Co. would (maybe?) be able to do internally with the addition of a programmer or two, and im sure would satisfy most, if not all, of the graphics crowd.

well... back to dreaming

The Game · 05-26-2013, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dodgerblue88

Allow me to further illustrate my dream....

Why google sketchup? it's free, easy to use, and exports to all of the major file formats. I've been working on stadium building for about the last two years with sketchup and it's perfect because you can customize just about every aspect fairly quickly.

So anyways, for my idea, this would be the main batter/pitcher interface screen:

and once the ball is hit the action would be played out in this view:

BTW, that is a model of ebbets field i've been working on, just needs some final texturing to be completed.

Here's one of the best stadiums I've ever seen made in sketchup, not by myself, but this shows the potential of sketchup as a stadium builder:

and just for kicks, here a model of LA coliseum i just started working on in baseball configuration

Now would I be opposed to MLB the show type graphics? Absolutely not, but im thinking this is something a bit more reasonable that Markus & Co. would (maybe?) be able to do internally with the addition of a programmer or two, and im sure would satisfy most, if not all, of the graphics crowd.

well... back to dreaming

if you ever finish Ebbets and LA Coliseum I would love to use them.

thevaliantx · 06-03-2013, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Thorp

This sums it up for me. I don't understand how graphics can make the game better. Dots moving around the field, really? My concern is that development in this area could take away from development and improvement of the game's core areas. To interest me, a visual representation of the game would have to be so good that all of us would have to go out and buy high end gaming machines.

What you say (or write) makes sense, but then it begs the question of whether you think the game, as it is, plays a realistic game. If it doesn't, do you still play it? Do you enjoy it? If not, what is it that you're looking for that would make you happy? If the game is satisfactory, in gameplay, then WHY NOT add animations into it? Otherwise, your argument doesn't hold water and presents you as a type who just doesn't want graphics in the game (which is fine, no harm, no foul), hell or high water.

And, then, you make a valid statement that the visual presentation of the game would have to be SO GOOD that everyone would have to go out and buy high end gaming machines. Do you think the animations would become that good overnight? Has that ever happened in any sports game? It takes YEARS for an animations engine to be written and fine-tuned so that everyone would have to do as you suggested. The only way development would go on that long for a visual presentation package is if customers bought successive versions (or even skipped a version or two as many here do), so it appears that you're asking for the impossible. Unfortunately, it says more about you than it does about a potential feature of this series.

05-10-2013, 03:33 PM	#27
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 23,986 Blog Entries: 1	I said before that I don't care if it is implemented, but the logic in that post is WAAAAY off. 'There are those who like baseball'... okay. No need for graphics there. 'There are those who like business'... I would be surprised if ANYONE plays the game because they like business. They may like the 'business of baseball', but that is covered by the third of the two choices you listed. 'Those who like both'. No need for graphcis there. None of those options require graphics. Rather you are creating a whole different group... those who like baseball and video games... or at least video game graphics. I am not calling that group down, but don't assume, as you do in your post, that anyone who is a fan of baseball would obviously want graphics. To us the word 'must' is just ridiculous. People are buying the game. Those that try to imply that there will be a big exodus away from the game without the induction of graphics are just straight up Chicken Littles. Maybe there will be graphics added. Maybe not. Just stop trying to claim that it is crucial to the survival of the game. It just isn't. You don't get to define the discussion just because it fits what you want. Last edited by rpriske; 05-10-2013 at 03:39 PM.

05-25-2013, 04:48 PM	#35
dodgerblue88 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 170	Re: 3-D Graphics It would be cool if Markus would find some way to add 3d or even 2d sprites and layer them on a 2d stadium image, that way we could use stadium images already available and watch the little guys hit field and run

05-26-2013, 02:58 AM	#37
dodgerblue88 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 170	Re: 3-D Graphics Any you guys ever play earl weaver baseball 2? You can download a PC shareware version called igiball at http://www.bangbangplay.com I love to play this game just for the fact that I can see my games being played out, and despite the games age and graphics it accurately represents a baseball game. My dream is this: OOTP with a similar graphical representation as ewb2/igiball and the ability to import custom ballparks made in Google sketchup. That would be an absolute dream. The mod community would go nuts.

05-26-2013, 03:34 AM	#38
dodgerblue88 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 170	Allow me to further illustrate my dream.... Why google sketchup? it's free, easy to use, and exports to all of the major file formats. I've been working on stadium building for about the last two years with sketchup and it's perfect because you can customize just about every aspect fairly quickly. So anyways, for my idea, this would be the main batter/pitcher interface screen: and once the ball is hit the action would be played out in this view: BTW, that is a model of ebbets field i've been working on, just needs some final texturing to be completed. Here's one of the best stadiums I've ever seen made in sketchup, not by myself, but this shows the potential of sketchup as a stadium builder: and just for kicks, here a model of LA coliseum i just started working on in baseball configuration Now would I be opposed to MLB the show type graphics? Absolutely not, but im thinking this is something a bit more reasonable that Markus & Co. would (maybe?) be able to do internally with the addition of a programmer or two, and im sure would satisfy most, if not all, of the graphics crowd. well... back to dreaming Last edited by dodgerblue88; 05-26-2013 at 03:39 AM.

05-06-2013, 02:29 PM	#24
blasek0 Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 345	I am neutral on the concept of graphics. I'd be among the first to turn graphics off, when the rare event that I play out a game happens. So, it wouldn't increase or decrease my enjoyment of the game in any meaningful fashion directly. My only concern is it would take away from the development time of other features and thus hinder the development of things that I actually care about. So, my worries associated with graphics are indirect, rather than direct. Although, if they (OOTP staff) said 3D graphics would increase sales and allow them to hire another person(s) to work on the game (not 100% convinced that it would, yet), then my worries would be alleviated.

05-10-2013, 01:30 PM	#25
BigCity All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Shore, Great Lakes Posts: 1,386	There are TWO types of OOTP customers; those that love the game of baseball, and those that love the game of business. There are also those that play OOTP because of both. To deny one for the sake of the other is a cardinal sin - thus why an option of graphics must be included. The issue then becomes "what kind of graphics" and "how to accomplish it" and those questions should be left to the designer who is the creative founder of the game. Discussion of what we all think is relevant AND useful, but extrapolation to threats and suggestions of what one might do if it doesn't fall their way is misplaced. Let's try and keep the discussion to what it should look like if included, not whether it should or shouldn't. 2 cents.

05-10-2013, 09:01 PM	#29
BigCity All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Shore, Great Lakes Posts: 1,386	It's always interesting how some will twist your words into meaning something you weren't saying, so let me try once more. First, my comment was directed at everyone - not anyone in particular. Second, There ARE two groups of customers - those that like the game of baseball, and those that like the game of running a baseball team. I would have thought my previous wording would be taken that way. Those that like the game of baseball will certainly be more inclined to want to watch a visual representation of the game on the field than those who are more interested in the game of "running" the business of baseball. Third, There are some customers that enjoy both of these worlds equally. Fourth, I never said - nor suggested - that the game will fail if graphics is not included. What I "DID" say was no one customer group should denounce the addition or elimination of graphics to serve their own wants. We all have a right to a game of our liking. It is just as wrong for one customer to deny me the right to see improved graphics and it is for me to demand graphics be improved. That choice is the developers and no one else's. The only reason I posted this opinion was because the entire graphics discussion rotates around a YES-NO argument instead of providing ideas on HOW graphics might be improved IF Markus decides to do it. If we're going to actually help Markus design an improvement that is acceptable to everyone, we have to quit spinning our wheels trying to convince each other graphics is or is not needed. As long as there are BOTH types of customers described above, Markus best "business" decision is to simply add graphics with an on-off switch to appease everyone. Arguing whether he should or shouldn't do this seems to be a wasted effort equal to arguing whether online leagues should be supported or not. It's an equal comparison, there are customers who have never used the online option and those who live or die for it. Is there anyone out there not buying the game because the online league option is included? My 3rd cent.

05-11-2013, 08:15 AM	#31
catcherjul Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Montréal Posts: 311	I think it would be awsome! No need to a very realistic 3D graphic, but only a hitted ball (better than what we have now) with maybe some little points (players) chasing the ball. But anyway, with it or not, I'll buy OOTP 15-16-17-18... for sure.

05-12-2013, 02:58 PM	#32
dodgerblue88 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 170	Maybe markus could look into something like this and possibly implement something similar into future versions of ootp Baseball - SportFlashback.com a standalone graphics engine which visually reproduces what the ootp play-by-play tells it to. aka virtual replay.

05-25-2013, 04:37 AM	#34
DrSatan All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Parts Unknown Posts: 535	I have long dreamt of the day when OOTP would team up with another company to create a game with the simulation depth of OOTP and the game play of a game like The Show. The last game to come close was the High Heat series. You could simulate when you wanted, and pick up the sticks and play a game or series when you wanted. After High Heat ended I turned to OOTP, and never really looked back. I tried MVP. It had awesome game play, but the depth on the GM side was nothing compared to OOTP, so I could never really get into it. I tried the MLB 2K series, and couldn't get into for the same reason. OOTP is the greatest baseball experience I've had on the PC or Console. The only thing keeping it from being the greatest baseball game ever made in the history of ever is smashing it together with an MLB2K type game. If only we could throw both games in a room with some booze and Barry White. Their love child would change the world. Just stay the hell away from EA.