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Old 10-10-2014, 07:53 PM   #1
aaronhelman
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Any innovative management strategies?

When I manage games, I usually don't end up using my closer as a closer. Instead, I bring him in when we're in trouble. Sixth inning, up by two, one out, runners on second and third? Time to use my closer.

I don't know that this is really "innovative" so much as common sense that most real managers don't really use. What's the point of leaving your best pitcher in the pen now?

What else do you do strategically that you think should happen more in real baseball?
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:21 PM   #2
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On the subject of closer usage: Baseball Prospectus | Bullpen (Mis)management Tool
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Old 10-10-2014, 09:02 PM   #3
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Check out the book Scorecasting. It shows how many agreed upon strategies or known axioms are false.

Scorecasting: The Hidden Influences Behind How Sports Are Played and Games Are Won: Tobias J. Moskowitz, L. Jon Wertheim: 9780307591791: Amazon.com: Books
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Old 10-10-2014, 10:35 PM   #4
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One "innovative" strategy that I do still use from time to time, that has been used/championed by Tony Larussa in the past, is to hit the "pitcher slot" 8th in the order.

I'm not currently using it at the time, but did have a fair amount of success with it. You definitely have to have the right lineup for it for it to help at all, though.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:01 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronhelman View Post
When I manage games, I usually don't end up using my closer as a closer. Instead, I bring him in when we're in trouble. Sixth inning, up by two, one out, runners on second and third? Time to use my closer.

I don't know that this is really "innovative" so much as common sense that most real managers don't really use. What's the point of leaving your best pitcher in the pen now?

What else do you do strategically that you think should happen more in real baseball?
That only started happening when saves became a stat. Managers of old would be rolling over watching modern teams leave one of their best pitchers sitting in the pen till the end of games.


---

It's not innovative for my teams I'm quick to pull the plug on older players. It's fairly common for my teams to only have 1 or 2 30+ players with most being 27 or younger. I won't even give a contract to a guy who has him on my team past the age of 35.

I also pick up draft picks in nearly every trade I make. I routinely go into the draft (in my league it's 3 rounds) with 10-15 picks and once I had 19.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:06 PM   #6
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I also pick up draft picks in nearly every trade I make. I routinely go into the draft (in my league it's 3 rounds) with 10-15 picks and once I had 19.
Yeah, but you can't trade draft choices in real baseball.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:55 PM   #7
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One of the teams from the Beyond the Box score MLB expansion draft used the Starter-By Committee strategy. Full article here: Introducing: the expansion Charlotte Divide - Beyond the Box Score

[Spoiler]
Quote:
With the backing of the analytics-oriented Goodnight, we felt free to experiment in building the 2015 roster. No experiment was bigger than starter-by-committee (which we came to refer to affectionately as "SBC"), at least with respect to our approach to the expansion draft.

There are several potential benefits to the SBC approach to building a pitching staff. In the utmost brevity, good things about SBC: 1) We avoid the vast majority of the Times Through the Order Penalty ("TTOP") instances for all of our pitchers; 2) ordinarily, when pitchers tend to pitch until they fail, they're more likely to fail more frequently than when if their innings were pre-set; 3) former starters could find a little extra velocity; 4) we get more innings out of our good relievers; 5) we avoid having relievers pitch in back-to-back days, or when they might be particularly fatigued; 6) there are pitchers who might be "in-betweeners" who are valuable in longish stints, but whose stuff doesn't play up in short relief or stand up in starts, and who might be undervalued in the marketplace; 7) pitchers can be more easily fixed in side sessions, considering that relievers almost never get that opportunity even if something's not quite right mechanically; 8) by having what could be an eleven-man pitching staff, it's likely to be our worst one or two pitchers dropped from usage; 9) by having what could be an eleven-man pitching staff, we could get the benefit of an extra bench player; 10) we can pinch hit earlier in games, in high leverage spots; and 11) an SBC staff would most likely be cheaper, both in free agency and in the arbitration process.

It's not all rosy, of course. There are distinct drawbacks to an SBC system. Principal among them: 1) It's harder to play matchups in the late innings, somewhat negating benefit #10 above; 2) pitchers aren't trained to pitch every third game, and would need to learn to do so; 3) it would be harder to recruit free agent pitchers; and 4) the team would get fewer innings from its very best pitchers.

But here's the thing: in this expansion team context, SBC is a particularly good fit. That third drawback? Well, we don't need to attract free agent pitchers, as they don't get a choice in the expansion draft. The fourth? Also not a problem. We didn't expect to get any standout pitchers in the expansion draft, as no team has so many of them that they would be likely to fall through the cracks of protected lists.

So the Charlotte Divide embraced SBC. We are, after all, building for 2017. If it turns out to work reasonably well in 2015, we'll do it in 2016; if it works well in 2016, or if it works famously in either year, we will probably extend SBC's lease of the pitching staff. There are too many Wade Davises and Josh Collmenters and Brandon Morrows out there for SBC to fail on a continuing basis, even if the expansion draft gives it an extra special shot in the arm. What the SBC philosophy meant for the draft process was that we would target relievers and other pitchers with good "stuff" who just didn't hack it as starters; also, we didn't need to prioritize starting pitchers for the sake of having them.
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Last edited by baseballonly; 10-11-2014 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:58 PM   #8
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Yeah, but you can't trade draft choices in real baseball.
I think innovative is an oxymoron in a baseball universe where a team can acquire 19 draft picks.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:52 AM   #9
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I remember reading an article from Jim Caple (I think) several years ago where he suggested that teams might consider the role of an OPENER, starting the game with the guy who might be your closer, since the first inning is the only inning where the opposition is GUARANTEED to bring their own ideal lineup.

I've tried this a few times just to play with it, and still seem to prefer bringing the guy in when we're really in trouble. However, if you have 2-3 really solid relievers, it's more palatable to use one guy up front if you can be assured you have more for later.

I like the idea of creating a stat called a STOP, where the relief pitcher comes in with runners in scoring position, but no one scores.

Now, this is a little underhanded, but I don't know why it couldn't work in real baseball-

If you play around with the idea of the OPENER, you don't have to announce the pitcher that's going to pitch the bulk of your innings. You can wait until you see the other team's lineup to choose a pitcher and then either exploit the other team's weaknesses or force them to start making substitutions in the second and third innings. Sounds kind of like a Joe Maddon move to me.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:54 AM   #10
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Jays, I remember LaRussa batting the pitcher eighth sometimes. What's the rationale there and how does it help? What kind of lineup is it best with?
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:08 AM   #11
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You bat the pitcher eighth in the hopes that your ninth slot hitter can get on base more often and be on base for your 1-4 (better hitters) to drive him in.

Some sites have stipulated this could be worth 1.5-2 wins a season in a vacuum...
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:20 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by aaronhelman View Post
When I manage games, I usually don't end up using my closer as a closer. Instead, I bring him in when we're in trouble. Sixth inning, up by two, one out, runners on second and third? Time to use my closer.

I don't know that this is really "innovative" so much as common sense that most real managers don't really use. What's the point of leaving your best pitcher in the pen now?

What else do you do strategically that you think should happen more in real baseball?
This is what I see as the 'Stopper' role which is available sometimes in OOTP. I believe it depends in what era you are playing. I have suggested several times that the 'stopper' role be made available all the time so those that wanted to use it in sim/online leagues would be able to do so regardless of 'when' the league was taking place.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:37 AM   #13
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FWIW, years ago in a play-by-mail, no DH, tabletop league, I applied a similar strategy with a slew of good relievers and so-so starters. My starting pitcher rotation consisted of 3 relievers. Each would pitch only until their first at bat, then they'd be pinch hit for. I followed with a traditional starter who would only be allowed to bat once at most, then followed with more relievers.

I won the World Series. The away managers didn't like it and a couple refused my instructions to pitch that way and wouldn't accept it. I have not tried it with OOTP.

Last edited by canaveral; 10-11-2014 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #14
aaronhelman
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Canaveral, one problem with the strategy in OOTP is that the AI just can't handle it.

For example, if your only rested "starting" pitchers were right-handed, but your opener was a lefty, the AI would optimize their lineup versus left-handed, even though it's obvious that RHPs will take most of the game.

Of course, the way I imagine this working in real life would be in a scenario where lefty and righty starters are available, the other team doesn't know how to optimize a lineup, and you take advantage of that.

It also wouldn't work in online leagues since you have to actually manage the game as this whole thing might cause the bullpen AI to actually explode.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:58 PM   #15
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Yeah, but you can't trade draft choices in real baseball.

Well thats the great thing about custom fictional worlds. They aren't real baseball they are what the user wants.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:23 PM   #16
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One of the best teams in my online league is employing a variant of the starter by committee and I'm trying it with one of the worst. My results are inconclusive as of yet. We're not winning more games than I thought, but we're not losing more either. Usually we lose because the starter gets tagged in the 3rd inning, but I just changed my settings to hook them faster. Since I don't have anything to lose I'm going to stick with it for a season and see how it goes.
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Old 10-15-2014, 05:10 AM   #17
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Well my closer is pretty bad. I'm hesitant to use him if we're only up 1, but I got no choice.



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Old 10-15-2014, 11:10 AM   #18
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I don't agree on using your Best bullpen pitcher in the middle inning. Because if you use a mediocre pitcher to close games out there gonna blow a lot of saves. That's why you should investing good set of men and a decent middle reliever that way you're closer your top bullpen pitcher can close games out
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Old 10-15-2014, 11:29 AM   #19
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I don't agree not using your pitcher in the middle inning. Because if you use a mediocre pitch. of close games out there gonna blow a lot of saves. That's why you investing good set of men and a decent middle reliever that what you're closer your top bullpen pitcher can close games out
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Old 10-15-2014, 11:35 AM   #20
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Sorry I was using talk to text
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